Yeah, since SP1 came out I haven't had a crash. Vista is different, and MS doesn't do themselves any favours by moving and renaming things that still do the exact same task, but the OS seems pretty darn solid to me.
Well, the issue with that statement is that there are people for whom Apple products ARE a vanity item. For some people I swear you could put an Apple logo on an etch-a-sketch and they would rave about the clear sharp line.
Apple makes some great products, but aren't the Holy Grail of computing. MS has made some crappy products, but aren't near as bad as many people make them out to be.
Fact of the matter is the competition is good for everyone.
Well said! The fact this gets debated to the point of nausea much like the XBOX vs. Playstation 'war' grows tiresome.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Locke
Thats why Flames fans make ideal Star Trek fans. We've really been taught to embrace the self-loathing and extreme criticism.
I am into year two of waiting to hear an actual valid argument as to why Vista is crap.
I'm on to Windows 7 soon.
When it first came out there were some definite issues with driver compatibility. This only still happens if you're using some older hardware now.
At launch, there was quite a bit of trouble with certain software not working on Vista. For the most part this has now been smoothed out.
Of course all of this was compounded with Microsoft branding things Vista ready or Vista compatible, etc, etc when the driver support for the devices they were certifying really wasn't there yet.
There were fairly large issues that for the most part are now fixed. However, Vista has now taken such a beating in the press for these (and some other overblown issues) that nobody wants to adopt it. Microsoft's only real option at this point is to add a bit more polish to Vista, rebrand it as Windows 7 and push it out the door a bit early in '09.
To the OP:
After reading a bit of what you've said, no apple is probably not the answer for you. You're probably better off sticking to what you know, what will be easiest to get help with and what will be the easiest to upgrade your hardware down the line.
To all the fanboys who would sooner take a bullet to the kneecaps than consider using another OS:
LOL! its just an operating system. Every operating system has their flaws (yes, even OSX). Also, a lot of blame gets put on the operating system or the company that makes it when the real problem lies between the monitor and the chair.
Well, the issue with that statement is that there are people for whom Apple products ARE a vanity item. For some people I swear you could put an Apple logo on an etch-a-sketch and they would rave about the clear sharp line.
Apple makes some great products, but aren't the Holy Grail of computing. MS has made some crappy products, but aren't near as bad as many people make them out to be.
Fact of the matter is the competition is good for everyone.
But there are also people who know who Clarus the Dogcow is, rebuilt a desktop, allocated RAM to Photoshop, built HyperCard stacks, transitioned to PowerPC to IBM 601 to Motorola 604 to IBM G3s to Motorola G4s to IBM G5s to Intel Core Duos, cried when Bill Gates showed up on screen at Macworld Boston, the Newton, Mac clones and remember Steve Jobs the first time around and have been preaching the cult of the Mac long before Halo was a Mac only game.
For some, they are a vanity item but so are Ferrari's. Doesn't mean you should take one for a rip given the chance.
But there are also people who know who Clarus the Dogcow is, rebuilt a desktop, allocated RAM to Photoshop, built HyperCard stacks, transitioned to PowerPC to IBM 601 to Motorola 604 to IBM G3s to Motorola G4s to IBM G5s to Intel Core Duos, cried when Bill Gates showed up on screen at Macworld Boston, the Newton, Mac clones and remember Steve Jobs the first time around and have been preaching the cult of the Mac long before Halo was a Mac only game.
For some, they are a vanity item but so are Ferrari's. Doesn't mean you should take one for a rip given the chance.
Or spent hours typing a program from a magazine into an Apple IID and remember Lisa.
Sure, there are people who have used both and actually lived through the evolution of most of them, and prefer one of the other for their own very good reasons.
But right now it is vogue to hate MS and love Apple. And both those opinions need to be tempered somewhat because, as you so clearly pointed out, products change massively and what was true yesterday may not be true today.
__________________
"The problem with any ideology is that it gives the answer before you look at the evidence."
—Bill Clinton
"The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance--it is the illusion of knowledge."
—Daniel J. Boorstin, historian, former Librarian of Congress
"But the Senator, while insisting he was not intoxicated, could not explain his nudity"
—WKRP in Cincinatti
When it first came out there were some definite issues with driver compatibility. This only still happens if you're using some older hardware now.
At launch, there was quite a bit of trouble with certain software not working on Vista. For the most part this has now been smoothed out.
Of course all of this was compounded with Microsoft branding things Vista ready or Vista compatible, etc, etc when the driver support for the devices they were certifying really wasn't there yet.
There were fairly large issues that for the most part are now fixed. However, Vista has now taken such a beating in the press for these (and some other overblown issues) that nobody wants to adopt it. Microsoft's only real option at this point is to add a bit more polish to Vista, rebrand it as Windows 7 and push it out the door a bit early in '09.
Oh! and Micro$oft suxz0rz!!! lolololololol
And the moral of the story is...don't switch your OS until the bugs are worked out
XP sucked until the first service pack so did win 98...it's not going to change.
And the moral of the story is...don't switch your OS until the bugs are worked out
XP sucked until the first service pack so did win 98...it's not going to change.
average joe goes into best buy and every single box is being sold with vista pre-loaded. thankfully they all come with a sticker that shows that microsoft certifies this hardware configuration as vista compatible. unfortunately it wasn't.
the real moral of the story is not all end users are tech savvy enough to be aware of such issues and work around them or install the previous generation operating system.
average joe goes into best buy and every single box is being sold with vista pre-loaded. thankfully they all come with a sticker that shows that microsoft certifies this hardware configuration as vista compatible. unfortunately it wasn't.
the real moral of the story is not all end users are tech savvy enough to be aware of such issues and work around them or install the previous generation operating system.
Thankfully this only happens every 3-4 years, the low presentage "average joes" are our Guinea Pigs.
But are you saying the hardware being sold didn't run?
average joe goes into best buy and every single box is being sold with vista pre-loaded. thankfully they all come with a sticker that shows that microsoft certifies this hardware configuration as vista compatible. unfortunately it wasn't.
the real moral of the story is not all end users are tech savvy enough to be aware of such issues and work around them or install the previous generation operating system.
Are you following the lawsuit on that? Some of the internal email are very interesting.
Edit: I added a quick rundown in my next post. Off topic, but what the heck.
__________________
"The problem with any ideology is that it gives the answer before you look at the evidence."
—Bill Clinton
"The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance--it is the illusion of knowledge."
—Daniel J. Boorstin, historian, former Librarian of Congress
"But the Senator, while insisting he was not intoxicated, could not explain his nudity"
—WKRP in Cincinatti
Last edited by Bobblehead; 12-30-2008 at 03:50 PM.
Thankfully this only happens every 3-4 years, the low presentage "average joes" are our Guinea Pigs.
But are you saying the hardware being sold didn't run?
Here is the Coles notes version:
MS had their Vista Ready program ready to roll out in June 2006.
In January, they shifted the date of that program to April so OEMs could get the labels on that season's models.
Intel freaked because their laptop chipset (specifically the video portion - it wouldn't run Aero) would not pass the certification. They figured this shift would cost the $600+ Million.
MS tried to figure out how to make everyone happy, and decided that Vista would run on those laptops, it was just certain features that wouldn't work. So they came up with a "Vista Capable" program for computers that could only run a neutered version, and "Vista Ready" for the computers that really were ready.
And of course this neutered version of Vista, according to an MS engineer, "However, these will not support WDDM and will not offer any graphics stability or performance improvements over Windows XP, nor will they support any of the visual quality/productivity/style improvements over Windows XP."
And of course customers didn't know the difference between a Vista Capable machine and a Vista Ready one, so they felt slighted.
Which lead to the ongoing class action lawsuit.
__________________
"The problem with any ideology is that it gives the answer before you look at the evidence."
—Bill Clinton
"The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance--it is the illusion of knowledge."
—Daniel J. Boorstin, historian, former Librarian of Congress
"But the Senator, while insisting he was not intoxicated, could not explain his nudity"
—WKRP in Cincinatti
The Following User Says Thank You to Bobblehead For This Useful Post:
Well, the issue with that statement is that there are people for whom Apple products ARE a vanity item. For some people I swear you could put an Apple logo on an etch-a-sketch and they would rave about the clear sharp line.
And many people refuse to even consider the value of an Apple product simply because of the logo on the front. It swings both ways.
Anyone basing their decisions on a logo needs a headcheck -- no argument there.
My main point was that the Macbook is a solid offering at a good price. And that Vista is a better OS then XP. As I've said in many of the other similar threads: if you want a laptop, consider the Macbook; if you want a desktop, custom built for Vista is the best bet.
My personal recommendation for people who are buying a new PC is getting a laptop with an external monitor, keyboard and mouse. You get a portable machine, 2 effective monitors and the benifits of both worlds. The only thing lacking is gaming performance which most people don't require -- and those that do already know what they need.
People who are still claiming that switching to a Mac means you can't run any software have no clue what they're talking about.
The Great Software Divide ended years ago. I can run anything I get my hands on. I couldn't care less if it's Mac or PC software, it all works on my Mac. Obviously, my first preference is always to get the Mac version, but I run anything and everything I want to on any of my Macs.
The Following User Says Thank You to FanIn80 For This Useful Post:
I just bought an iMac to work on iPhone projects. It makes me feel dirty because I absolutely loathe Steve Jobs and the cult of Mac.
It actually makes me really annoyed to have to do work in Objective C.. what a pure ego blow by Jobs. It's a language he created, doesn't follow typical conventions of C, C++, C#, Java, etc.. and he bought NeXT so that he could force Apple "evangelists" to use it to do OS X. The ego on that man is mind blowing.
It's leaves such a terrible taste in my mouth, but it's for my career future.
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Who is in charge of this product and why haven't they been fired yet?
Well no mac for me. I am planning on taking International Business. PC it is. I will just buy a monster. Too bad you can't set-up a laptop like you can with a desktop. ie. making it yourself
One big plus for me when I made the switch to mac is if I ran into a situation where I needed windows I could have it whereas if I was on a of and wanted to use a mac I wouldn't have that luxury.
I had a conversation with a pc loving uncle of mine that said "what do you do when you need a program only offered on a pc?" my response was simply "well, I hit this button right here and boot into windows".
I'm not a pc hater by any means, but my personal preferences steer me towards apple.
People who are still claiming that switching to a Mac means you can't run any software have no clue what they're talking about.
The Great Software Divide ended years ago. I can run anything I get my hands on. I couldn't care less if it's Mac or PC software, it all works on my Mac. Obviously, my first preference is always to get the Mac version, but I run anything and everything I want to on any of my Macs.
LOL, your turning your Mac into a PC emulating windows and your defending a Mac?
And I would love to see the performance of a Mac running some of the PC games I play. I doubt Crisis would even get to the start screen.
LOL, your turning your Mac into a PC emulating windows and your defending a Mac?
And I would love to see the performance of a Mac running some of the PC games I play. I doubt Crisis would even get to the start screen.
I play Crisis on my Mac. Nice try, though. I have a 3.06GHz Core 2 Duo with a 1TB hard drive, 4GB of RAM and an Nvidia 8800GT 512MB video card. There isn't a game on this planet that I can't play.
...and it's called "dual-booting" not emulating. I've been dual-booting for years on my PCs, but doing it now on my Macs is somehow wrong?
I play Crisis on my Mac. Nice try, though. I have a 3.06GHz Core 2 Duo with a 1TB hard drive, 4GB of RAM and an Nvidia 8800GT 512MB video card. There isn't a game on this planet that I can't play.
...and it's called "dual-booting" not emulating. I've been dual-booting for years on my PCs, but doing it now on my Macs is somehow wrong?
Don't you understand that anything with the Apple logo is not meant for gaming? It's overpriced, low quality hard ware not capable of matching a stock Dell!!
Like I said, most vocal Mac haters don't know what they are talking about.
LOL, your turning your Mac into a PC emulating windows and your defending a Mac?
And I would love to see the performance of a Mac running some of the PC games I play. I doubt Crisis would even get to the start screen.
So his computer runs both osx and windows and somehow that's a bad thing? I personally don't care which operating system you choose to be a fanboy for, but at least try and make a little sense when arguing.
Both operating systems have big pros and cons ... I really don't understand why somebody would find running both to be a problem. I prefer osx, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't want to have xp on hand just in case.
