I dunno...they also collect OAS and maybe even get the GIS, but if they make 'Radio Money' they'd lose the GIS which is a shame because its non-taxable.
They'd have to do it....
*puts on sunglasses*
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Richards is right. I'd be worried about the long term viability of the Flames as well. It becomes a downward spiral. Players don't want to play in an old rundown arena and the value of the product goes down when you can't keep talent. The public doesn't want to spend money on something with a low product value. Once that cycle starts, it's difficult to break. And the more tedious the future gets, you will see a gradual decrease in fan engagement.
Stringing together a few winning seasons where the team either won a Cup or became a contender, would go a long way to getting a new arena. The only other option is to build on hope by getting a phenomenal young talent, like what happened in Pittsburgh. Edmonton would count as well, even though the decision to build Rogers came before they got McDavid, they were successful in building hope and hype for the future.
A crappy building isn't the only issue, but it might very well be the straw to break the camel's back.
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Richards is right. I'd be worried about the long term viability of the Flames as well. It becomes a downward spiral. Players don't want to play in an old rundown arena and the value of the product goes down when you can't keep talent. The public doesn't want to spend money on something with a low product value. Once that cycle starts, it's difficult to break. And the more tedious the future gets, you will see a gradual decrease in fan engagement.
Stringing together a few winning seasons where the team either won a Cup or became a contender, would go a long way to getting a new arena. The only other option is to build on hope by getting a phenomenal young talent, like what happened in Pittsburgh. Edmonton would count as well, even though the decision to build Rogers came before they got McDavid, they were successful in building hope and hype for the future.
A crappy building isn't the only issue, but it might very well be the straw to break the camel's back.
Flames gotta tank. They are due their Crosby, McDavid, just like those franchises were in dire need.
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I personally don't buy the arena thing as amounting to much. I think it really comes down to the climate and nightlife aspect. Edmonton you have much worse, and even worse Winnipeg but it's no surprise these cities aren't high on the preferred list. Guys are young and rich and just want some nightlife. Play to their age when recruiting.
Flames gotta tank. They are due their Crosby, McDavid, just like those franchises were in dire need.
It looks like Pittsburgh and Edmonton both got generational players a year or two after breaking ground on a new arena, so that means our generational talent is still a few years away, based on how long it's taking to get the new flames arena going.
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k im just not going to respond to your #### anymore because i have better things to do like #### my model girlfriend rather then try to convince people like you of commonly held hockey knowledge.
I personally don't buy the arena thing as amounting to much. I think it really comes down to the climate and nightlife aspect. Edmonton you have much worse, and even worse Winnipeg but it's no surprise these cities aren't high on the preferred list. Guys are young and rich and just want some nightlife. Play to their age when recruiting.
I’m absolutely sure it helps attracts free agents. But more than that, it gives Edwards a reason to keep the club in Calgary.
Honestly you just need to win and it fixes any market problems. The exact same stuff could have been said when Iggy left.
Sure some markets like Vegas and New York are always going to have a competitive advantage, but Pittsburgh isn’t some amazing city but they had Crosby and Malkin which meant you always have a shot.
Colorado isn’t much different than Calgary. It was a great destination, then a poor destination for a bit, and now it’s a top destination again.
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Honestly you just need to win and it fixes any market problems. The exact same stuff could have been said when Iggy left.
Sure some markets like Vegas and New York are always going to have a competitive advantage, but Pittsburgh isn’t some amazing city but they had Crosby and Malkin which meant you always have a shot.
Colorado isn’t much different than Calgary. It was a great destination, then a poor destination for a bit, and now it’s a top destination again.
Yeah, which is why the Flames need to tank and get some of the talent that draws other talent to town (and helps them win games).
Time to tank. Short term pain, with the hope of long term gains.
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It looks like Pittsburgh and Edmonton both got generational players a year or two after breaking ground on a new arena, so that means our generational talent is still a few years away, based on how long it's taking to get the new flames arena going.
Pittsburgh got their new arena after Fleury, Crosby, and Malkin.
The arena broke ground between the season where they lost to Detroit in the Final and the season where they beat Detroit in the Final. It opened a little more than a year after they won the Cup.
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I’m absolutely sure it helps attracts free agents. But more than that, it gives Edwards a reason to keep the club in Calgary.
Even more than that, it is absolutely needed to keep an NHL team. The Saddledome probably has less than a decade of life left before it becomes a hazard. I don't think even renovations are plausible anymore given the costs versus benefits. There is going to come a point in the not to distant future where the Flames literally cannot play there. Once that date starts getting closer, players who want stability aren't going to want to sign on long term if the team might force them to move somewhere else anyway.
And of course players want to play and practice in comfort. They want to be pampered in every way possible. It's like having a cubicle versus a corner office with a window and door. A modern arena might not be the end all, but not having one is on top of the other hurdles they have to face to attract talent.
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Even more than that, it is absolutely needed to keep an NHL team. The Saddledome probably has less than a decade of life left before it becomes a hazard. I don't think even renovations are plausible anymore given the costs versus benefits. There is going to come a point in the not to distant future where the Flames literally cannot play there. Once that date starts getting closer, players who want stability aren't going to want to sign on long term if the team might force them to move somewhere else anyway.
And of course players want to play and practice in comfort. They want to be pampered in every way possible. It's like having a cubicle versus a corner office with a window and door. A modern arena might not be the end all, but not having one is on top of the other hurdles they have to face to attract talent.
Yup, wait until there's a roof issue, of some severity. Given some engineering study, they can't determine the integrity of the roof IIRC.
The Saddledome was past its due date for hosting major events around 10-15 years ago. Flames major mistake was not pushing a new arena through favourable local and provincial governments in 2006 and 2007 when they had full plans and drawings for a new rink, move in ready by 2011.
The subsequent proliferation of social media and the hub bub it stirs up and affects nervous politicians, killed that plan and arena costs have since doubled or more.
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Hate to say it, but I think Johnny was our Crosby/McDavid. We really needed Bennett to pan out and Monahan's hips to not give out...
I see what you did there.
Seemingly every piece of good luck the Flames have gotten has been tainted.
- Hit a home run with Johnny but he leaves us
- Hit a home run with Adam fox and he doesn't even sign
- Draft Monohan, turns out to be one of the best of his draft class, but his body breaks down
- Draft Sam Bennett after Oilers pick Draisaitl (many fans saw this as a huge win) but he never lives up to potential, especially compared to Draisaitl
- Tkachuk drops in the draft enough so the Flames can draft him, but he leaves us
The year Pittsburgh won the draft lottery... that top pick wasn't determined in some public way like the old Kingo Bingo on CTV, was it? Was there any transparency or accountability at all about how a franchise with good history that was vulnerable to financial failure/relocation won the Crosby lottery?
The year Pittsburgh won the draft lottery... that top pick wasn't determined in some public way like the old Kingo Bingo on CTV, was it? Was there any transparency or accountability at all about how a franchise with good history that was vulnerable to financial failure/relocation won the Crosby lottery?
It was held behind closed doors, but every team had a representative in the room to witness the actual drawing. Those witnesses were sequestered until after the public announcement was made.
It would have been impossible for one person to rig it in Pittsburgh's favour and not get caught (and lose their job and also possibly go to prison for fraud).
The only logical way it could have been rigged would have been if every team agreed to it and there's no way that would have ever happened. For each team, the potential value of getting a player like Crosby would have been immensely greater than any benefit they'd get from Pittsburgh getting a new arena.
Would a new arena in Pittsburgh result in any significant increase in league revenue compared to the Pens relocating to a city like Kansas City (or even better, Houston)? Pittsburgh is a small market. In terms of media market size, only Nashville and Buffalo are smaller among US cities with at least one NHL team. Swapping Pittsburgh for Kansas City wouldn't have likely had any impact on tv rights revenue or things like that.
Even without Crosby, the Pens had Fleury and Malkin already, so it's not like their cupboards were bare.
Almost every team in the league has been able to get a new arena built without needing the greatest player in the game on their roster. Much like the Saddledome, the Igloo was old and out-of-date (in fact, it was much worse than the Saddledome is today) and needed to be replaced. Even if the Pens left town, Pittsburgh needed a new arena for concerts and other events. So, a deal was almost-certain to get done one way or another.
If they were going to rig it for maximum league-wide benefit, he would have ended up with the Rangers or Kings or maybe even the Panthers, Coyotes, or Thrashers.
No matter who won the lottery, people would have come up with conspiracy theories as to why it was rigged for that team. Really, "Pittsburgh needs a new arena" would have been one of the weaker arguments out of the 30 possible.
Finally, Pittsburgh was one of the teams with the best odds of winning the lottery, so it's not like they beat huge odds to win. Even if a low odds team had won, it wouldn't have been too shocking since every team had either 1, 2, or 3 balls in the hopper. No one was an overwhelming favourite.
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To summarize:
It would have been nearly impossible for one rogue actor (or even a small group) to rig the lottery with all of the witnesses present.
If all teams had agreed to just give Crosby to Pittsburgh, they could have done so without the charade of the lottery. Remember, they made the rules.
Each team, in its own shelfish interest, would have stood to gain more by winning the lottery than they would gain with a 1/30th share of any gains from Pittsburgh getting a new arena.
Even without Crosby, Pittsburgh would have likely built a new arena for the Penguins. If they hadn't, the team would have relocated to a city about the same size as Pittsburgh -- or possibly bigger.
If the teams were going to agree to giving Crosby to a pre-selected team, Pittsburgh would not have been the best choice for the overall benefit of the league.
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Mike Richards and Rod Peterson talk Flames
