[News Roundup] CSEC/City arena deal UPDATED: Third Party Facilitator

[getbak]

I could see the area around the casino on the Reserve as a potential location for a stadium replacement for the Stamps, but an arena there would be a bad idea. It wouldn't be quite as bad as Kanata or Glendale, but it would still be pretty bad.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

It would be a good idea for the Nation I would think. They could lease out land around it and eventually develop a decent commercial area. Some of the First Nations around Vancouver have been doing this and have seen huge economic benefits.

I personally don't think the eastern edge of their territory is that far from Calgary's core that it would prevent people from going there. It's certainly not Kanata and Ottawa.

They should include LRT expansion to that area though, if it isn't already.

I agree it’s not far from the core. And it’s a 10 minute drive for me. But for someone in the NE it’s a real hike. There’s absolutely no LRT planned there or for the foreseeable future.

FN Leases are probably more commercially reasonable now. I don’t know what Costco’s deal is, but I imagine they feel it’s solid.

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by OldDutch

Ask Ottawa or Phoenix how that sweet deal outside the core area of town is going.

Flames aren’t playing there. They need to be central with public transit access. Are people going to deal with Uber, Cabs and a Bus that will take you to Chinook station? Its a massive lift to get 18K people out, half of whom should not be driving.

To be fair, Tsuu Tina is only 15 minutes from downtown area, and a fair chunk of the Flames season ticket holders are probably in the West and South Calgary area, which would make this location very accessible for them (vehicle) with the ring road. If ones driving to downtown for the Flames game, probably takes the same amount of time or so from those parts of town.

But as you mentioned, the lack of good quality public transit would probably make this a net negative overall. Not even taking into consideration drinking at the game and driving.

Even if Flames could do alright with access only coming from vehicles primarily, the Hitman and Roughnecks would become a worse draw since it's a barrier for those who wouldn't want to go through the hassle of driving and paying for parking if they have a car. If not, then it's a even bigger inconvenience.

[DoubleK]

Originally Posted by getbak

It wouldn't be quite as bad as Kanata or Glendale, but it would still be pretty bad.

It's probably on par with Florida's arena for badness.

Not awful, but not good.

[OldDutch]

Originally Posted by Joborule

To be fair, Tsuu Tina is only 15 minutes from downtown area, and a fair chunk of the Flames season ticket holders are probably in the West and South Calgary area, which would make this location very accessible for them (vehicle) with the ring road. If ones driving to downtown for the Flames game, probably takes the same amount of time or so from those parts of town.

But as you mentioned, the lack of good quality public transit would probably make this a net negative overall. Not even taking into consideration drinking at the game and driving.

Even if Flames could do alright with access only coming from vehicles primarily, the Hitman and Roughnecks would become a worse draw since it's a barrier for those who wouldn't want to go through the hassle of driving and paying for parking if they have a car. If not, then it's a even bigger inconvenience.

Agree, but I think although its closer its not close enough. Basically, it boils down to. Can I get out quickly post game like the Dome? And then, where do I go to like 17th Ave?

If either are bad answers you probably go to a bar or a friends house and skip freezing running out to grab a cab.

Not impossible but doesn’t seem like an upgrade to me.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by OldDutch

Agree, but I think although its closer its not close enough. Basically, it boils down to. Can I get out quickly post game like the Dome? And then, where do I go to like 17th Ave?

If either are bad answers you probably go to a bar or a friends house and skip freezing running out to grab a cab.

Not impossible but doesn’t seem like an upgrade to me.

Getting out quickly is possible. But nowhere to go unless they develop something.

[browna]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Getting out quickly is possible. But nowhere to go unless they develop something.

Well, the development will accelerate right away and be in place long before an arena is built, as soon as it’s actually announced. A few set of bars and restaurants and similar establishments within walking distance I’m sure, along with the casino not far away, is not hard to see an entertainment district taking shape in the 3ish year from shovels in the ground for the rink.

Again, without any concerns or hassles about acquiring land or some of the bylaw and other civic restrictions for that entertainment area or arena development.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by browna

Well, the development will accelerate right away and be in place long before an arena is built, as soon as it’s actually announced. A few set of bars and restaurants and similar establishments within walking distance I’m sure, along with the casino not far away, is not hard to see an entertainment district taking shape in the 3ish year from shovels in the ground for the rink.

Again, without any concerns or hassles about acquiring land or some of the bylaw and other civic restrictions for that entertainment area or arena development.

I could see an entertainment district. There’s already a development which I expect will have some restaurants. But FYI, the casino is not in walking distance of the area I’m referring to. It’s probably a 10 minute drive.

[browna]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I could see an entertainment district. There’s already a development which I expect will have some restaurants. But FYI, the casino is not in walking distance of the area I’m referring to. It’s probably a 10 minute drive.

Well Big 4 is building a dealership closer to the RR but due west. of the casino?p. There is still the area south of the casino to develop as well.

If the entertainment center is closer to Costco and the 7 Chiefs Sportsplex (there is the Flames practice rink, the Hitmen played games there too), there would be a shuttle bus system I am sure direct to the casino and or parking.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by browna

Well Big 4 is building a dealership closer to the RR but due west. of the casino?p. There is still the area south of the casino to develop as well.

If the entertainment center is closer to Costco and the 7 Chiefs Sportsplex (there is the Flames practice rink, the Hitmen played games there too), there would be a shuttle bus system I am sure direct to the casino and or parking.

That could be done. For sure. I’d hate to see too much of that forest ripped up south of the casino.

Of course, the Flames would have to come up with 100% of the construction cost, and they’d have to actually pay rent to the nation.

[Ducay]

Not that anyone here is advocating for it, but go read about the Canadian Tire Centre if you think putting an arena in a drive-only suburbs location is a good idea. Same reason anytime Balzak gets floated and immediately shot down. TsuuTina would be a horrific location

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Burn13

Bad faith is tweeting the deal is dead publicly and flushing 3 years of work with it.

There did I do it right?

She is an elected public servant and should keep citizens informed of major information relating to the deal “we” were negotiating with CSEC.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Bunk

The City did not change requirements. There isn't an agreed to designed building in a deal, and then an approval process "changes" it. An application goes through a process, and the cost is based on what is approved.

Bunk, you're on the City's side here. I'm amazed that people can talk about the media being shills for the Flames, and then turn around and take your one-sided view of the story as absolute gospel.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Joborule

Depends how important is it to the city to have the arena in East Village. Does the arena being there truly kickoff the prolonged revitalization of that area? Do they invest the costly amount of money into refurbishing the Saddledome, or build a smaller scale event centre instead to satisfy the Stampede? Or simple tear down dome, and have nothing at all since market is not big enough to have two competing venues? Would the revenue lost by not having the arena there be made up by alternative options?

With the demise of the Corral, the city could use a 5-8k seat venue.

I'm skeptical the new arena will do much to 'anchor' the Rivers District...there's still a 350 meter wasteland between 9th and 12th avenue with a major barrier of the CP tracks.

We will still have an events district with a few tall condos, and a separate East Village District where the 'vibrancy' is on the north end near the river. While the library and NMC are decent daytime attractions, I'm not sure there is much to make that side feel like a comfortable gathering place or even pedestrian route after dark.

The plan really falls apart for me with the 'Riverfront Residential' area:

Spoiler!

Really more of a 'railfront' area, and was also assuming the green line running immediately south of the CP tracks (perhaps serving as a decent buffer), but the current alignment for the green line is down 11th ave.


The parcel labeled Neighbourhood Centre is the ideal location for the arena (with outdoor concourses serving as pedestrian overpasses over the CP tracks.

Maybe you get another block or two of high density residential between 11th and 12th (as is currently the case with Arriva, Guardian, and Keynote) and medium density that is actually riverfront where the bus barns are (while filling in the Riverwalk gap).

I think this wold also help to spur redevelopment on the north side of 9th Ave

[Manhattanboy]

If the City announced a 5,000 seat “Corral replacement” I would have to withhold payment of my property taxes.

[Rejean31]

Now the city has idiots talking about building an event centre that DOESN’T include an arena. Boy, we have some real genius’ as city hall. These ####ing idiots won’t be happy until the Flames leave the city. And it won’t be like Winnipeg. The NHL leaves this city, it’s not coming back!!

[Jordan!]

Originally Posted by Rejean31

Now the city has idiots talking about building an event centre that DOESN’T include an arena. Boy, we have some real genius’ as city hall. These ####ing idiots won’t be happy until the Flames leave the city. And it won’t be like Winnipeg. The NHL leaves this city, it’s not coming back!!

I just washed and hung up all 10 of my Flames jerseys. If the Coyotes THEN The Flames leave i'm done with the NHL forever.

I just don't think I can be a Golden Knights fan..

The cost to build an arena very well may be more in 5 years than it is today, really a god damn shame this project didn't move forward.

[Yoho]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1481273796669501440

[bomber317]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Bunk, you're on the City's side here. I'm amazed that people can talk about the media being shills for the Flames, and then turn around and take your one-sided view of the story as absolute gospel.

What is so amazing about it?

Media is being paid and influenced to put a spin on things. The balance from the media is not there as most of them are funded by a handful of parent companies.

Bunk is aware of the processes and procedures and provides some light to it. He isn't being paid to push an agenda here.

Frankly, I think we are lucky to have some insight from Bunk on the process side of things.

Even hearing some of the interactions from some people actually involved in the project itself provides some color to the situation.

[The Fisher Account]

Some of ya'll are absolutely hilarious. The Flames aren't going anywhere.

This is all negotiation tactics and posturing. The Flames need The City and The City needs the Flames.

We will all look back and be glad the original proposal went off the rails, because.. well, it sucked. Extremely confident that something better will come down the pipe after the rhetoric cools down.