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Old 08-19-2019, 02:03 PM   #21
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I'm not exactly outraged with the rankings as winning the Norris shouldn't be an automatic pedestal to the top. But Burns at #1 just doesn't sit well with me. He's with out a doubt the #1 defenseman in terms of pure offensive output no doubt. He's a juggernaut on one side of the ice.

But I don't think he's in the same league defensively as Gio who is elite on both ends of the ice. Burns isn't even on the 1st unit PK. Vlasic and Braun are. I don't think Hedman is on the 1st unit PK either. Taking both ends of the ice into account, Gio should definitely be the #1 choice. Hopefully another year of dominance makes him a slam dunk next off season.
If Burns isn't on the first PP unit, his offensive stats are indeed spectacular.

Gio's offense was trending down for a few years before last year.

I would suggest that he's really not in Burns league offensively.
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Old 08-19-2019, 02:05 PM   #22
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It was almost a unanimous vote for Gio for the Norris. Plus in my opinion, he was the best player in the NHL not named Kucherov last season.

This list is shenanigans, but it really doesn't matter.
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Old 08-19-2019, 02:06 PM   #23
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If Burns isn't on the first PP unit, his offensive stats are indeed spectacular.

Gio's offense was trending down for a few years before last year.

I would suggest that he's really not in Burns league offensively.


Trending down while carrying Dougie Hamilton? You don’t say.
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Old 08-19-2019, 02:17 PM   #24
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The people who won trophies at the NHL awards last year are not necessarily the best players at their respective positions in the game. Why does this even have to be explained to people?
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Old 08-19-2019, 02:24 PM   #25
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The players as ranked by NHL.com are not necessarily the best players at their position. Why does this even have to be explained to people?
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Old 08-19-2019, 02:38 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague View Post
The people who won trophies at the NHL awards last year are not necessarily the best players at their respective positions in the game. Why does this even have to be explained to people?
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Originally Posted by blender View Post
The players as ranked by NHL.com are not necessarily the best players at their position. Why does this even have to be explained to people?
Because the list says

Quote:
NHL Network producers and analysts chose the top 20 defensemen in the League
And yet the guy who won the award for
Quote:
top defense player who demonstrates throughout the season the greatest all-round ability in the position
got 3rd place in the ranking.

Why does that need to be explained to people?

I know the nhl.com ranking mean SFA. But don't you agree it's odd the player who quite literally won the Norris is 3rd? Nowhere at all on the webpage does it say they are basing the rankings on more then the previous season (unless they said that somewhere on the video).

I'n not interpreting it as a slight against Gio. It's just an odd ranking to put the guy who won the Norris and got 99% 1st place votes, in 3rd place.
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Old 08-19-2019, 02:51 PM   #27
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Holy ####. No. It's not even a little odd. They're talking about the best players, not the guys who had the best season last year. The best players are not necessarily the guys who played the best last year. That is absurd. Even if you weigh last year heavily in your analysis, prior years' performance obviously matters, and as a result, it's not at all strange that the guy who played best last year is seen as the third best player.
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Old 08-19-2019, 02:51 PM   #28
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Because the list says



And yet the guy who won the award for

got 3rd place in the ranking.

Why does that need to be explained to people?

I know the nhl.com ranking mean SFA. But don't you agree it's odd the player who quite literally won the Norris is 3rd? Nowhere at all on the webpage does it say they are basing the rankings on more then the previous season (unless they said that somewhere on the video).

I'n not interpreting it as a slight against Gio. It's just an odd ranking to put the guy who won the Norris and got 99% 1st place votes, in 3rd place.
It's only odd if you think subjectivity and context don't exist. The Norris, like any other list, is just the opinion of a select group of people. Change the people, the list might change... as it has here...

The Norris voters are also tasked with judging a player ONLY by a single season, whether they always do that is on them, but that's the context of the award. This list doesn't have any similar stipulations, other than "in the league."
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Old 08-20-2019, 07:50 AM   #29
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i have to admit i don't ever reacall hearing about miro heskinen (#17 on the list). learned today he plays for dallas
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Old 08-20-2019, 08:25 AM   #30
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Are these the same guys who recently released a Top Two Way forward roster and left Barkov completely off the roster? If so, then it's not surprise their top defensemen list is also questionable.
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Old 08-20-2019, 11:41 AM   #31
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It would be interesting to check the past rankings by NHL.COM and see where Norris winners are ranked.

Last edited by blender; 08-20-2019 at 01:26 PM.
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Old 08-20-2019, 11:58 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague View Post
The people who won trophies at the NHL awards last year are not necessarily the best players at their respective positions in the game. Why does this even have to be explained to people?
These are the same people that see various power rankings and go ballistic because the Flames are 8th instead of 5th. Like it or not, Gio is not the best defenseman in the league right now.

Yes, he had the best season in the league last season, but if you put it all together, there is no way he is better than a guy like Hedman and probably 3-4 other guys on that list. Now, if he duplicates last year or comes close to that season again, the conversation will start to become seriously different.

As it stands now, you're talking about a guy that didn't crack 40 points the previous 2 seasons regardless of the circumstance. To be the best in the league, I would argue you need to have a lengthy track record of posting top end offensive numbers regardless of your defensive play. This is no slight to Giordano, but people need to be a bit more realistic when you're looking at who people around the league would consider for this ranking and why that is.
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Old 08-20-2019, 12:25 PM   #33
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This list is more about offence than defence
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Old 08-20-2019, 01:24 PM   #34
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This list is more about offence than defence
I don't really see how.

Yandle and Barrie consistently have high offensive numbers (both top 10 last year and averaged over the last 3 years) and neither are on the list. Hedman had 20 less points than Gio and is ranked ahead of him. etc.
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Old 08-20-2019, 01:49 PM   #35
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I don't really see how.

Yandle and Barrie consistently have high offensive numbers (both top 10 last year and averaged over the last 3 years) and neither are on the list. Hedman had 20 less points than Gio and is ranked ahead of him. etc.
Because #1 gets walked all the time and #4 is a pylon

It's debatable if Burns even plays defence...more of a rover

Karlsson is terrible at defending
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Old 08-20-2019, 01:56 PM   #36
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Its not worth taking the list too seriously

I mean these guys didn't even have Gio on it last year. They're clearly a bunch of Jon Snows, they know nothing. At least until it hits them on the head when they guy they completely snubbed grabs the top d-man trophy in a landslide vote. And even then. Gio is #2 next to Hedman. Burns is essentially a good forward disguised as a d-man. But their criteria is clearly the stats line first and foremost.
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Old 08-20-2019, 01:59 PM   #37
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Karlsson is terrible at defending
Out of curiosity, what is your take on how the 2017 Senators made the ECF?
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Old 08-20-2019, 02:39 PM   #38
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Out of curiosity, what is your take on how the 2017 Senators made the ECF?
It wasn't because of his solid DEFENCE

He was +10 that year....okay but not great with 71 points. -25 the next season


Anyone who thinks Karlsson is a good defender has never watched him play. Guy isn't even average in his own end

elite offensively...and that was my point

Sharks have 2 of the top 4 Dmen in the league yet are 21st in goals against
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Old 08-20-2019, 03:02 PM   #39
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Because #1 gets walked all the time and #4 is a pylon

It's debatable if Burns even plays defence...more of a rover

Karlsson is terrible at defending
Sure, but even as a defender, stellar offence can make up for less than stellar defence.

It's not weighing one more than the other. Or else, again, Barrie and Yandle would be on the list. Gio would be a lot lower. Krug would be a lot higher. Etc.

It's overall. Not suggesting the list is perfect because I think you can change a few guys around one or two spaces, but nitpicking just one guy and writing the whole list off as "offence over defence" doesn't make much sense when you actually look at the list.

I think when you're looking at a player or two that consistently top lists of the best defencemen and have won and been finalists multiple times for the Norris trophy, and you're saying they aren't good defencemen, you just have to accept you might be wrong.

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Old 08-20-2019, 04:06 PM   #40
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Sure, but even as a defender, stellar offence can make up for less than stellar defence.

It's not weighing one more than the other. Or else, again, Barrie and Yandle would be on the list. Gio would be a lot lower. Krug would be a lot higher. Etc.

It's overall. Not suggesting the list is perfect because I think you can change a few guys around one or two spaces, but nitpicking just one guy and writing the whole list off as "offence over defence" doesn't make much sense when you actually look at the list.

I think when you're looking at a player or two that consistently top lists of the best defencemen and have won and been finalists multiple times for the Norris trophy, and you're saying they aren't good defencemen, you just have to accept you might be wrong.

Karlsson is not good at defending...he isn't

The fact that he has been nominated for awards largely based on offense doesn't change that

For ME a top Dman should be able to do both
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