Official WWE/ECW/WCW/TNA talk, or whatever v2

[Maritime Q-Scout]

I wasn't a big Scott Hall fan. But I don't mean that as a negative. I didn't hate him, I didn't think he was awful, as a goodie goodie little kid there weren't many heels I connected with.

I always considered him one of the best. Which, he was.

A friend of mine posted on Facebook saying, "He's gone too soon, and somehow it's surprising he lived this long."

That line couldn't be more accurate. Gone too soon, and somehow surprising he was still around.

I hope his suffering is over. Lord knows it went on for so so so long.

[Ozy_Flame]

I think a silver lining with Hall's death is that it wasn't an OD or something where his (past) demons got the best of him. This was complications from hip surgery. If you had asked me 15 years ago how he would have passed that's not the answer I would have given.

The last 7-8 years of his life was a true redemption story. He even got to coach and guide today's performers after he got healthy. His influence on Indi Hartwell, Kip Sabian, even Damian Priest was quite obvious and they all have commented on his influence.

Mid-90's Hall was just something else to watch. Very captivating on TV with his intimidating look, charisma, and in-ring psychology.

[Ferarri]

I find it shocking that Scott Hall never won a heavyweight title. He was gifted athletically and left such a huge impact on the wrestling world. I was a hardcore Bret Hart fan but absolutely loved when the nWo came together with Hogan and Nash. They changed the wrestling scene forever - and for the betterment of all wrestling fans.

I applaud Scott for fighting his demons and changing his life. Not a lot of people get that opportunity, and it’s nice to see a story of healing and redemption. His death was hard news to process even as a casual wrestling fan. Can only imagine what his closest friends and family are going through. Prayers to them.

“Heeeeyyyyyy yoooooo” RIP bad guy and thanks for all that you did.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by Ferarri

I find it shocking that Scott Hall never won a heavyweight title.

There have always been guys who never needed the title to be remembered as all time greats. Roddy Piper, Curt Henning, Jake the Snake, Rick Rude, Scott Hall. There's a long list of all time greats who just... didn't need it.

[The Familia]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

There have always been guys who never needed the title to be remembered as all time greats. Roddy Piper, Curt Henning, Jake the Snake, Rick Rude, Scott Hall. There's a long list of all time greats who just... didn't need it.

I agree, but it also shows the sad state of wrestling today. There were just so many high end wrestlers and characters in the 80's and 90's that there simply were not enough world title spots to give out. Wrestler's held onto their belts a lot longer back then which really helped to legitimize the wrestler and the title.

There is zero question that all the guys listed above would hold the world title today. Just look at the WWE right now. there world title pool consists of Roman, Lesner, Lashley, and a couple others. there are no marquee names or high end stars right now. The WWE is starving for big names and I bet they would do anything to find a Scott Hall, Curt Hennig, Ted DiBiase, Jake Roberts, Rick Rude or Roddy Piper right now.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by The Familia

I agree, but it also shows the sad state of wrestling today. There were just so many high end wrestlers and characters in the 80's and 90's that there simply were not enough world title spots to give out. Wrestler's held onto their belts a lot longer back then which really helped to legitimize the wrestler and the title.

There is zero question that all the guys listed above would hold the world title today. Just look at the WWE right now. there world title pool consists of Roman, Lesner, Lashley, and a couple others. there are no marquee names or high end stars right now. The WWE is starving for big names and I bet they would do anything to find a Scott Hall, Curt Hennig, Ted DiBiase, Jake Roberts, Rick Rude or Roddy Piper right now.

That's a feature, not a bug. WWE wants the brand to be the star, and doesn't want guys who transcend the brand anymore.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by The Familia

I agree, but it also shows the sad state of wrestling today. There were just so many high end wrestlers and characters in the 80's and 90's that there simply were not enough world title spots to give out. Wrestler's held onto their belts a lot longer back then which really helped to legitimize the wrestler and the title.

There is zero question that all the guys listed above would hold the world title today. Just look at the WWE right now. there world title pool consists of Roman, Lesner, Lashley, and a couple others. there are no marquee names or high end stars right now. The WWE is starving for big names and I bet they would do anything to find a Scott Hall, Curt Hennig, Ted DiBiase, Jake Roberts, Rick Rude or Roddy Piper right now.

Maybe.

Or maybe the WWE would do what they do with all talent nowadays and would waste them. Unless your name is Brock Lesnar or Roman Reigns your booking is crap.

Razor Ramon would have been labelled as just Ramon and been used like Cesaro was used today, Rick Rude would be Rick Boogs in 2022, Jake Roberts becomes Damian Priest, and Roddy Piper would debut on the main brand as "Butch".

Point being is through the late 80s and 90s the WWE had lots of stars because they knew how to build stars (and would let people have the freedom to build their own stars), that's gone now.

[the_only_turek_fan]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

There have always been guys who never needed the title to be remembered as all time greats. Roddy Piper, Curt Henning, Jake the Snake, Rick Rude, Scott Hall. There's a long list of all time greats who just... didn't need it.

Owen Hart

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Maybe.

Or maybe the WWE would do what they do with all talent nowadays and would waste them. Unless your name is Brock Lesnar or Roman Reigns your booking is crap.

Razor Ramon would have been labelled as just Ramon and been used like Cesaro was used today, Rick Rude would be Rick Boogs in 2022, Jake Roberts becomes Damian Priest, and Roddy Piper would debut on the main brand as "Butch".

Point being is through the late 80s and 90s the WWE had lots of stars because they knew how to build stars (and would let people have the freedom to build their own stars), that's gone now.

It was interesting to me when there were rumours that Disney was interested in WWE, because it makes perfect sense to me. WWE is essentially a formulaic, paint-by-numbers entertainment franchise at this point, not really dissimilar to what Disney has done with Star Wars and Marvel. I like Marvel for the most part, but it is what it is, and I feel like WWE fits into that type of ecosystem perfectly.

[V]

So happy Razor could get his life back over the last few years, and I’ll always love DDP for the work he’s put in with Hall and Roberts.

[Macman]

I knew Razor Ramon was a big guy with a good physique but didn't realize he was 6"7" and 285lbs was apparently his listed wrestling billing.

He also has a son Cody Hall who's 6'-10" and also a wrestler, I've never heard of him but I'm sure others here have.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by Macman

I knew Razor Ramon was a big guy with a good physique but didn't realize he was 6"7" and 285lbs was apparently his listed wrestling billing.

He also has a son Cody Hall who's 6'-10" and also a wrestler, I've never heard of him but I'm sure others here have.

I met Cody Hall in Japan once at an AJPW show; nice guy, chatted about wrestling with us for a good 15 minutes. Very tall like his old man!

[Ozy_Flame]

Oof. Sounded like Hall was suffering before his death:

From Reddit via F4WOnline:

Meltzer writes that Hall's "closest friends knew this was coming." Waltman had "called Hall a month ago to come out to stay with him because Hall had been deteriorating for the past two years due to drinking."

Waltman: "It was hard enough for [Scott] as it was, but he was isolated in his house with no social interaction. He was down to 210 pounds. We called [Dallas Page] and he went over. It was really bad."

After Hall fell and broke his hip, he "laid there for a few days before friends told Page to check on him since they couldn’t get in contact with him. Page found him and got him to the hospital."

[CaptainCrunch]

That's awful.


I'm maybe reading too much into this, but it does sound like he'd relapsed

[Ozy_Flame]

Yeah, he did.

And although it's not confirmed and I'm just speculating here, but "complications" from hip surgery was likely due to his body not being able to handle the anesthesia. Chronic alcohol use increases dose requirements for general anaesthetic agents. Heavy drinking can impact chances of survival from a surgery like this.

[Finger Cookin]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Point being is through the late 80s and 90s the WWE had lots of stars because they knew how to build stars (and would let people have the freedom to build their own stars), that's gone now.

They bought lots of territories that had pre-made stars. Rude, Roberts, and Piper certainly fit that bill. And Ramon was just re-packaged and they managed to do good with it.

[White Out 403]

Super left field and random. I was on youtube and saw some Hogan full matches from the 80s and early 90s. I just don't think we'll ever see something like Hulkamania ever again. I don't want to overstate it but really, the dude was as big as a face ever got, and he was mainstream. Fans LOVED him and believed he was Hulk, vitamins and thanking the man upstairs and all.

Even the god damn theme music. Perfection.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by White Out 403

Super left field and random. I was on youtube and saw some Hogan full matches from the 80s and early 90s. I just don't think we'll ever see something like Hulkamania ever again. I don't want to overstate it but really, the dude was as big as a face ever got, and he was mainstream. Fans LOVED him and believed he was Hulk, vitamins and thanking the man upstairs and all.

Even the god damn theme music. Perfection.

I don't know about that. I mean I never liked Hogan, so maybe that bias' me. But I always gravitated towards heels and workers. Hogan absolutely was a global mega star. I'd say his height of popularity was about from 1983 to 1989 or to the end of the MegaPowers and the Savage feud. His time in the WWE from about 1989 to 1993 had him in decline and the steroid trial dropped his popularity.

He had a short burst in WCW, but was getting boo'd heavily. Then he attached himself to the NWO. But when the NWO crumbled and WCW crumbled, Hulk Hogan crumbled. His time in TNA was atrocious.

His ring work really slid in WCW during the NWO, and really his mike work was really aged.

What wrecked Hogan was when the curtain was pulled back on the backstage stuff and Hogan was revealed as pretty much a cancer on the business.

It could be argued that Steve Austin probably reached a height equivalent to Hogan's height. Same thing with the Rock.

Actually if I was going to rank the most influencial stars in Wrestling History from the 80's to now

Austin - The numbers back it just in terms of carrying a company, and merchandise. More then anything he defined the attitude era, and between he and Rock they basically destroyed the WCW in the end

The Rock - Mainly because of his ability to cross industries. But in his time nobody was really bigger then the Rock, and the Rock Austin feud generated a massive amount of money

Hogan - Huge for 6 years, and then went into a slow decline. His move to turn heel and join the NWO was one of the smartest political decisions of all times, and extended his career. Never a great worker, at his height he was kind of solid. His mic work was good, but then got uncreative and paint by numbers. The funniest thing is later on in his career in WCW. He'd take time off or "retire" or "run for president". In truth, he would take his time off and hope that the numbers and ratings would crumble and he'd be able to negotiate more money and come back from as the savior. The opposite usually happened, and ratings in WCW would increase without Hogan on TV.

John Cena - Yeah, hate me for this, but he's an under rated worker. Probably one of the all time natural's and best on the mic. He could adapt his character and knew his audience and was one of the few that could adjust to the fans division about him. Like the Rock he has made a massive jump into the main stream.

Ric Flair - I was never a fan of Flair's. Just being honest. For most of his career he was a big fish in a smaller pond. But it gave him the ability to work some classic matches. Really good on the mic, but I found his matches to be repetitive and paint by numbers especially in the later half of his career. Another guy who was ruined when the curtains rolled back on the real life Flair and it turns out he's pretty much a piece of crap con man.

Bret Hart - Call this biased. But to this day there isn't a single worker that tells a story like Bret. He can make anyone look good even terrible workers like Yoko. Seriously under rated on the mic. His work with the Hart Foundation playing villains in the States and a hero everywhere else was ground breaking and brilliant. His Madison Square Garden promo was amazing work. His double turn with Austin and his feud with Owen rank extremely high on the all time list.

Shawn Michaels - Great on the mic, great in the Ring. The numbers bear out that he was a decent money draw, but not a game changing money draw as a Champion. To be honest his legend was created in the Montreal Screwjob.

The Miz - Great on the mic, smart worker with a simplified style and . . . I'm just messing with you all.

[SuperMatt18]

AEW really needs to chill with the big spots a bit.

It’s one thing on PPV or to blow off big fueds.

But you don’t need Jeff Hardy jumping off the window frame of an arena, against the Butcher and the Blade on a random Dynamite in what’s barely a fued yet.

[LIP MAN]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

AEW really needs to chill with the big spots a bit.

It’s one thing on PPV or to blow off big fueds.

But you don’t need Jeff Hardy jumping off the window frame of an arena, against the Butcher and the Blade on a random Dynamite in what’s barely a fued yet.

Dynamite is must watch, the great thing is stuff like
this CAN happen (and does), thus making it much more unpredictable and exciting.