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Old 10-29-2020, 06:10 AM   #1
Tsawwassen
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Default Three people killed in a knife attack in Nice, France.

Nice Mayor Christian Estrosi said there had been a "terrorist attack at the heart of the Notre-Dame basilica." One elderly victim who had come to pray was "virtually beheaded". A suspect was shot and detained shortly afterwards.


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-54729957
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Old 10-29-2020, 08:00 AM   #2
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I admire France's dedication to secular liberalism. There's tremendous public and institutional support for the ideals of the teacher who was beheaded last week, and for Charlie Hebdo's right to publish irreverent content, so I don't see Macron backing down from his administration's campaign against extremism.

However, religious fanaticism can't be rooted out overnight. Expect more terrorism. This is going to get ugly.
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Old 10-29-2020, 08:43 AM   #3
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I admire France's dedication to secular liberalism. There's tremendous public and institutional support for the ideals of the teacher who was beheaded last week, and for Charlie Hebdo's right to publish irreverent content, so I don't see Macron backing down from his administration's campaign against extremism.

However, religious fanaticism can't be rooted out overnight. Expect more terrorism. This is going to get ugly.
Agree. But it’s already ugly.
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Old 10-29-2020, 09:16 AM   #4
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I admire France's dedication to secular liberalism. There's tremendous public and institutional support for the ideals of the teacher who was beheaded last week, and for Charlie Hebdo's right to publish irreverent content, so I don't see Macron backing down from his administration's campaign against extremism.

However, religious fanaticism can't be rooted out overnight. Expect more terrorism. This is going to get ugly.
Yes and the fact that this was actually a beheading of a worshipper in a Catholic Church makes it all the more complicated.
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Old 10-29-2020, 09:21 AM   #5
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What I don’t get is why the murderers are going after people in churches. The Charlie Hebdo cartoons also have sacrilegious depictions of Christ (and other religious figures). And the teacher who was beheaded had previously told Catholic students to cover up their crosses. They seem to think they’re in a war of Islam vs Christianity. I guess the notion of secularism is too incredible for them to understand.
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Old 10-29-2020, 09:22 AM   #6
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Why does that make it more complicated? A worshipper in a Catholic Church is just a human being exercising a legally guaranteed right to freedom of thought and belief, just like the Charlie Hebdo writers were. I fail to see a meaningful difference.
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Old 10-29-2020, 09:26 AM   #7
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What I don’t get is why the murderers are going after people in churches. The Charlie Hebdo cartoons also have sacrilegious depictions of Christ (and other religious figures). And the teacher who was beheaded had previously told Catholic students to cover up their crosses. They seem to think they’re in a war of Islam vs Christianity. I guess the notion of secularism is too incredible for them to understand.
Hard to whip up a frenzy against an idea. At least "Christians" are a tangible, identifiable enemy of Islam.

Is Macron Christian/religious?
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Old 10-29-2020, 09:33 AM   #8
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Hard to whip up a frenzy against an idea. At least "Christians" are a tangible, identifiable enemy of Islam.

Is Macron Christian/religious?
According to wikipedia has was raised non-religious, baptized Catholic at 12 by his own choice, and is agnostic today.
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Old 10-29-2020, 09:37 AM   #9
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What I don’t get is why the murderers are going after people in churches. The Charlie Hebdo cartoons also have sacrilegious depictions of Christ (and other religious figures). And the teacher who was beheaded had previously told Catholic students to cover up their crosses. They seem to think they’re in a war of Islam vs Christianity. I guess the notion of secularism is too incredible for them to understand.
Seems like a more simplistic us vs them mentality. I don't think these guys are getting into the philosophical nuances of liberalism and secularism here. Anyone who beheads another person is likely not thinking about even their own religion on too deep of a level.
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Old 10-29-2020, 09:56 AM   #10
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Macron's statements in response to these attacks are spot on. France should give no ground on this issue. Good to see him being unequivocal about freedom of speech and secularism.
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Old 10-29-2020, 10:13 AM   #11
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France has a terrible history of grim repression and violence towards its Arab population in its colonies up until the mid 1960's and frankly life for muslims in France is pretty dreadful so when some charismatic movement comes along offering them if not hope at least some way to fight back its no surprise that a large amount of Muslims will embrace it, I cannot see a way out of this for France, its white population is pretty racist frankly, and France has a weird ability to justify its worst instincts by claiming they are a virtue, Charlie Hebdo has a long history of publishing racist tropes all the while claiming that the act of publishing them is an act of militant press freedom and so therefore its ok and not racist, its hard to see a country that all but refuses to look at its own history of racism but instead sees everything as a result of the minorities being the problem ever solving the underlying causes that make France such a fertile center of recruitment for islamic extremism.
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Old 10-29-2020, 10:21 AM   #12
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Why does this keep happening in France all the time?
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Old 10-29-2020, 10:23 AM   #13
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You know, given your history as someone with a long history of posting awful, stupid things on this forum, it's saying something that that post right there is a serious contender for the most awful and stupid thing you have ever said on here.
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Old 10-29-2020, 10:30 AM   #14
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France has a terrible history of grim repression and violence towards its Arab population in its colonies up until the mid 1960's and frankly life for muslims in France is pretty dreadful so when some charismatic movement comes along offering them if not hope at least some way to fight back its no surprise that a large amount of Muslims will embrace it, I cannot see a way out of this for France, its white population is pretty racist frankly, and France has a weird ability to justify its worst instincts by claiming they are a virtue, Charlie Hebdo has a long history of publishing racist tropes all the while claiming that the act of publishing them is an act of militant press freedom and so therefore its ok and not racist, its hard to see a country that all but refuses to look at its own history of racism but instead sees everything as a result of the minorities being the problem ever solving the underlying causes that make France such a fertile center of recruitment for islamic extremism.
Ummm...
This sounds an awful lot like blaming a citizens beheading on its nations past racism? Newsflash, every nation has a history of pretty brutal nationalism or racism, including several North African nations routinely enslaving Europeans not all that long ago. Or you know, current day, where certain nations still persecute gays, other muslims and political dissidents as a relatively routine occurrence.
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Old 10-29-2020, 10:31 AM   #15
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You know, given your history as someone with a long history of posting awful, stupid things on this forum, it's saying something that that post right there is a serious contender for the most awful and stupid thing you have ever said on here.
I will assume that was directed at me, I in no way think extremism is a good thing or justified in any way, that said the rise of the IRA in the late 60's was an utterly predictable outcome of the way Catholics were marginalised and excluded from society throughout the 20th century by Britain and the rise of Islamic extremism in France is just as predictable
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Old 10-29-2020, 10:47 AM   #16
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France has a terrible history of grim repression and violence towards its Arab population in its colonies up until the mid 1960's and frankly life for muslims in France is pretty dreadful so when some charismatic movement comes along offering them if not hope at least some way to fight back its no surprise that a large amount of Muslims will embrace it, I cannot see a way out of this for France, its white population is pretty racist frankly, and France has a weird ability to justify its worst instincts by claiming they are a virtue, Charlie Hebdo has a long history of publishing racist tropes all the while claiming that the act of publishing them is an act of militant press freedom and so therefore its ok and not racist, its hard to see a country that all but refuses to look at its own history of racism but instead sees everything as a result of the minorities being the problem ever solving the underlying causes that make France such a fertile center of recruitment for islamic extremism.
Dude, stop. Please.
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Old 10-29-2020, 10:48 AM   #17
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classic afc
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Old 10-29-2020, 10:51 AM   #18
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The guy who killed Paty was an immigrant from Chechnya - far from any French colony.

And if this is all about colonialism, why aren't immigrants and the descendants of immigrants from France's colonies in sub-Saharan Africa and Southeast Asia going around cutting peoples' heads off? Where are the radical cells of alienated Gambians and Vietnamese?
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Old 10-29-2020, 10:52 AM   #19
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Well if we all just want to post that it was a terrible attack fair enough, it was terrible, I was just trying to point out France is going to suffer from these attacks at a greater frequency than other countries for a reason, if you dont want to talk about that thats fine as well.
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Old 10-29-2020, 10:54 AM   #20
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But you were "just trying" to do that by inserting your typical ridiculous opinions and conclusions.
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