[News] New Arena - Plan B - Victoria Park

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Seattle has a long running WHL team that averages close to 5k attendance which is not bad for junior hockey in a US city. The Seahawks are the big draw but when they hit the skids that will change and like most US cities the team that is winning is the most popular team. I think a Seattle team would do fine given close proximity to Vancouver and the California teams and the rivalry possibilities. If successful it may also open the door for Portland.

Sooner or later, Seattle will end up with another team.

It will not be the Flames however.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Table 5

That's great, they are successful business men...but that's still not a valid excuse for giving them hundreds of millions of public dollars. It should be the exact reason not to.

You wouldn't be ok if Suncor or Agrium or Stantec came asking for that type of money (and I'm sure they provide more economic benefit to this town than the Flames), so why is it ok with a hockey team?

The Flames and the NHL need to find a solution in house. Cut that $70M salary cap to $40-50M, and they can build themselves a new arena every 2 decades.

Why don't we stick to real world concept.

Basically the Flames put out their opening position, and I wasn't a fan of the Calgary Next proposal. But the idea behind that is then working with the city on coming up with a fair compromise that leaves both sides happy.

The Flames are far different then the companies that you talk about and I don't see the link here. The Flames are a massive part of this cities culture and there's a price to be paid for that prestige of being a major sports city.

Nenshi didn't come out with a position that could be seen any way but negative towards getting a new building.

I would expect that this will be done at some point and there will be some public money provided for an arena. It might not be with this mayor in place though because Nenshi for all of his good deeds and there are a few, is not one that plays well in the sandbox with others.

Again the Flames would be irresponsible if they didn't look at projects like Edmonton and Vancouver and Regina and say that there has to be public money put into an arena and saying that the owners should just pony up and pay for it is going to be a non starter, because if that's a fact then they might as well look for relocation and look to see if there's a better deal for them and their franchise in a city that's either going to give them public money, or has a more up to date building with higher revenue potential.

Frankly I knew that this thing was going to have a public blow up when Nenshi fired a opening heavy rhetoric negative salvo.

[automaton 3]

Woulnt't the NHL owners rather have someone pony up for a substantial franchise fee for Seattle (which they share in), than relocate a team from a successful market for a lesser fee?

Just a thought.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Sooner or later, Seattle will end up with another team.

It will not be the Flames however.

I agree because I believe the city and the Flames will get a deal done but if I'm incorrect then I think the Flames absolutely would be the team to move there. There's a reason Katz used Seattle because that's the market that is the best fit for the Flames or Oilers to move given close proximity to Alberta and ownership.

[Reaper]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Well...yeah.

It's his job after all.

His job is to go and stir up things to divert negative attention to him in Gary Bettman style? Such a narrow job description for a Chief Executive Officer.

I realize I worded it poorly:
I should have said I suspect instead of I wonder as it leans toward suggesting that Ken King is actively assuming the Gary Bettman Public Relations role. It isn't something he'd normally do if the Flames weren't looking for a new arena. Generally, he'd be more of a glad handing type of CEO where he acts like the host of a party he's inviting everyone to come to.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Are you passively aggressively suggesting something here?

Or is this just more MMF blather?

Do you really need to ask?

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by IamNotKenKing

Except that the City has not provided any information to the Flames about Plan B, despite promises and assurances they would, which was originally to be provided in October. Still nothing. The Flames simply want to know what their Victoria Park options are.

Just out of curiosity, are you part of the Flames organization? I know you're not Ken King, but it almost seems the username was chosen deliberately due to some connection to the hockey club.

Your posts often seem to contain hints that your info is, at least in part, coming from inside. Also, in any arguments/critique of the organization you seem to respond politely and tactfully but certainly in immediate defense of the Calgary Flames.

I'm asking sincerely, as I've always wondered.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Reaper

His job is to go and stir up things to divert negative attention to him in Gary Bettman style? Such a narrow job description for a Chief Executive Officer.

I realize I worded it poorly:
I should have said I suspect instead of I wonder as it leans toward suggesting that Ken King is actively assuming the Gary Bettman Public Relations role. It isn't something he'd normally do if the Flames weren't looking for a new arena. Generally, he'd be more of a glad handing type of CEO where he acts like the host of a party he's inviting everyone to come to.

He didn't stir anything up.

Nenshi unilaterally decided Calgary Next was dead. Beaked off to a reporter by telling them as much, and then the whole can of worms was opened up again.

KK is merely stating the Flames side of things and when pressed on a question, answered it as anyone in his position would.

Your shooting the messenger here.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by stone hands

Love the flames but the many billionaires that own the Calgary flames can buy their own plot of land and build their own private building where people voluntarily attend a sports event

If they don't wanna do that, cya later

Then why would they do that here?

If that's the position that you would want for example. Then why wouldn't the Flames look at other cities that will provide either provide public money or free land. At that point if they do that they will get concessions from other cities, and its not like they would then go back to the city of Calgary and say this is what we've gotten from other cities.

And I can guarantee you if that happened and the Flames did relocate, this city would never get another sniff at a NHL team unless they build a new building first probably on the public dime.

I wouldn't say that Nenshi is desperate, he's going into another election against a bunch of cardboard cutouts, but he has to be concerned that his approval ratings have dropped significantly and maybe his shelf life is limited.

But tactically I think he opened his mouth without thinking again.

I wouldn't expect much pressure this year, I wouldn't expect that this thing becomes an electoral issue this time.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by transplant99

He didn't stir anything up.

Nenshi unilaterally decided Calgary Next was dead. Beaked off to a reporter by telling them as much, and then the whole can of worms was opened up again.

KK is merely stating the Flames side of things and when pressed on a question, answered it as anyone in his position would.

Your shooting the messenger here.

The entire reason this thread and all these arena threads popped up in the last week is because of Nenshi's comments. Nobody can deny he's the one that stirred the pot.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Just out of curiosity, are you part of the Flames organization? I know you're not Ken King, but it almost seems the username was chosen deliberately due to some connection to the hockey club.

Your posts often seem to contain hints that your info is, at least in part, coming from inside. Also, in any arguments/critique of the organization you seem to respond politely and tactfully but certainly in immediate defense of the Calgary Flames.

I'm asking sincerely, as I've always wondered.

I've always assumed it was a family member of the Kings. I can understand if that's the case that you wouldn't want to admit to that especially seeing some of the vile comments directed in Ken's direction by many here on a regular basis.

[stone hands]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Then why would they do that here?

If that's the position that you would want for example. Then why wouldn't the Flames look at other cities that will provide either provide public money or free land. At that point if they do that they will get concessions from other cities, and its not like they would then go back to the city of Calgary and say this is what we've gotten from other cities.

And I can guarantee you if that happened and the Flames did relocate, this city would never get another sniff at a NHL team unless they build a new building first probably on the public dime.

I wouldn't say that Nenshi is desperate, he's going into another election against a bunch of cardboard cutouts, but he has to be concerned that his approval ratings have dropped significantly and maybe his shelf life is limited.

But tactically I think he opened his mouth without thinking again.

I wouldn't expect much pressure this year, I wouldn't expect that this thing becomes an electoral issue this time.

I think it's in the flames best interest that they find a municipality willing to give a bunch of billionaires hundreds of millions of dollars as a subsidy to have their personal hockey team play in said municipality

I just hope it's not calgary

[nik-]

All the usual suspects

[The Familia]

I say the city builds a new stadium (250 million) and the Flames build their own arena ($500 million). $250 million for a top of the line stadium like Regina is not a lot in the long run and will provide amenities that have never been possible to the city before.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Apples to oranges. The NHL wants to keep the Coyotes in that US TV market. The Flames could leave Calgary and it would not at all change the Canadian TV market and if anything they could sit on Calgary as the next place they could use as a threat of relocation for franchises. Gary has always been tight with Flames ownership and there's no way he would stand in their way and Seattle is a market the NHL has always been interested in and what better owners than stable ones the Flames to assume that market.

You really think having a team in Phoenix in any way effects what the NHL gets on a TV deal? Its a very long term play there. But I'd be shocked if NBC or NBCSN has shown more than one Coyotes game/year in years (and that one game may be part of the deal since they show every American team at least once).

If that was really a big deal, they'd have never let Atlanta leave (bigger TV market) and they'd be going like mad to get a team in Houston (bigger TV market).

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by stone hands

I think it's in the flames best interest that they find a municipality willing to give a bunch of billionaires hundreds of millions of dollars as a subsidy to have their personal hockey team play in said municipality

I just hope it's not calgary

There you go, if that's the position to take then that's the position to take.

You seem to think that this is an all or nothing thing.

And you're right, what's the incentive for the Flames to stay if they have to foot the whole bill when there are other cities with either prebuilt modern buildings or would be willing to assist in a new building to lure an NHL team to that city?

If there's no position to negotiate then this whole thing is academic and we might as well start the countdown clock to relocation, tell the Flames that they're not going to have to foot the bill or give any kind of assistance for a new building and we can start talking to the AHL about relocating a team to Calgary.

Also chances are that if the Flames leave, they'll either try to sell their other properties like the Hitmen, or the Roughnecks or the Stamps. Or they'll just simply fold them. I know that there aren't going to be many people rushing to buy the Stamps with their current stadium deal.

Ken King was reacting to Nenshi once again taking an absolute position and shooting his mouth off. He didn't threaten a move yet, but the Flames have an absolute right to let the public know what's at stake.

Our mayor made this into a public media issue because he can't control himself and he has to always be right in his mind.

[stone hands]

Some of his constituents(myself included) would rather see this team move than help chip in hundreds of millions of dollars for a new arena

I willingly pay thousands of dollars a year to support/watch the flames. Before we get into a "but your tax dollars go to stupid things already" discussion, a new rink to go watch professional hockey is not one of those things in my opinion that should be paid for with tax dollars

[monkeyman]

If the NHL can't make it work in Calgary, they really should consider contraction, because there are at least a half dozen teams in worse shape than the Flames even with the Saddledome.

[Young_Guns]

MOD EDIT: No.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by stone hands

Some of his constituents(myself included) would rather see this team move than help chip in hundreds of millions of dollars for a new arena

I willingly pay thousands of dollars a year to support/watch the flames. Before we get into a "but your tax dollars go to stupid things already" discussion, a new rink to go watch professional hockey is not one of those things in my opinion that should be paid for with tax dollars

That's fine, I respect your position.

The simplest thing for the city to do is solve this democratically then. Make it a issue that we can vote on in the next election.

But realistically without some public funds, and clearly it won't be full public funding, then the arena is not going to get built.

Its that simple.

I have no stake in the game, with the way this thing is going I'll be in a hole in the ground before we see a building or the Flames relocate.

But if you think that the mayor should take the nothing portion of the equation then the Flames need to stop wasting time talking to the city and start booking city tours.