[News] New Arena - Plan B - Victoria Park

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Correct...he's saying they'll move to a worse market and likely cost themselves the exact same amount of amount and likely more in the long term than it would cost for them to build the arena themselves. Moving, unless it's to become Toronto 2, is the very definition of cutting off your nose to spite your face. If they wanna go with this bluff, call it and force them to lose the money. Cause they will lose money, possibly a lot of money.

No...he really isn't.

[edn88]

Originally Posted by Table 5

The only thing preventing the Flames from building an arena is their own greed.

But the Flames are not the only tenant of the building. Part of the argument for a new building is additional events and concerts. Flames don't need to foot the whole bill.

Correct me if I am wrong, but the economic benefit to the city of a new building is quite large. Even from having the Flames around. Restaurants and bars do well, pay more taxes. Hotels are busier etc etc.

[kevman]

The worst part about this constant bs is that we'll get to do it all over again in 30 years when our brand new arena is out of date again.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

People can critique the Flames all they want, but you don't get things done with our current mayor without a battle or going into the trenches.

Great. I for one am glad there's someone looking out for the long-term financial well-being of regular citizens, not just that of developer buddies like with the last guy.

Btw, I'm also glad we have another thread to discuss this topic in. We were getting dangerously low on arena threads.

[colbym72]

I understand there is a lot of politics involved but I don't know how people can be so willingly okay with the thought of them moving. It would be crushing to me to see this team somewhere else. It won't happen but man..

[iggy_oi]

Wasn't he on the fan earlier this week saying they wouldn't be making this threat?

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by edn88

Correct me if I am wrong, but the economic benefit to the city of a new building is quite large. Even from having the Flames around. Restaurants and bars do well, pay more taxes. Hotels are busier etc etc.

Plenty of studies out there show the economic benefit is negligible at best. I think there's more of an argument in it increasing quality of life. Once you start looking into the economics, it's almost always a crappy investment for the public.

[transplant99]

I see some around here don't want to deal in reality.

That should likely end any discussion.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Table 5

Great. I for one am glad there's someone looking out for the long-term financial well-being of regular citizens, not just that of developer buddies like with the last guy.

Btw, I'm also glad we have another thread to discuss this topic in. We were getting dangerously low on arena threads.

I have my own thoughts on our mayor, but I didn't say it was a good or a bad thing. Just pointing out that it's a reality. But if you like the way the mayor conducts business, don't get frustrated with the responses and tactics it forces the other sides to take.

[pseudoreality]

He must think he's so smart. I'm not threating to move, but that's what's going to happen. It's kind like kids saying it's not a threat, it's a promise.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

I have my own thoughts on our mayor, but I didn't say it was a good or a bad thing. Just pointing out that it's a reality. But if you like the way the mayor conducts business, don't get frustrated with the responses and tactics it forces the other sides to take.

I think the mayor needs to take a course in tact and etiquette, but in general I can look past it because I agree with the message he is saying....public money should go towards public benefit.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by pseudoreality

He must think he's so smart. I'm not threating to move, but that's what's going to happen. It's kind like kids saying it's not a threat, it's a promise.

It's neither, friend. It's reality.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Table 5

Great. I for one am glad there's someone looking out for the long-term financial well-being of regular citizens, not just that of developer buddies like with the last guy.

Btw, I'm also glad we have another thread to discuss this topic in. We were getting dangerously low on arena threads.

Lets not wrap Nenshi in some hero blanket and canonize him as the all saint of mayors.

He's a guy that pretty much picks fights to pick fights and blusters to bluster.

What was the point of him coming out with rhetoric like he did.

The Owners of the Flames have built massive businesses in this city and employed thousands and donated millions to various causes and Nenshi basically once again opened his big mouth and really bought this whole thing into the public forum in a negative way.

The Flames have generated millions of dollars to this city in terms of taxes and other things.

Sometimes I think he'd be more effective if he had a filter between his brain and his big mouth.

He doesn't always have to be the loudest guy in the room.

He really took the first step in making this something that's now a negative.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Clarkey

Calgary always wants to punch above its weight to prove it is a legitimate big city until it comes to bucking up a few 100 mil for a professional sports and event venue and then it's time to switch to small town mode. Our owners give so much to the community, they built Calgary economically and don't make much off the Flames (Franchise appreciation aside), it's time to buck up and get this done.

This is laughable.

A few hundred mill? Chump change. Did you even read the CalgaryNEXT proposal?

They asked for what could conceivably be one of the single largest public investments for a private facility in history.

Man...oh...if the deal was $100M for a hockey arena somewhere this probably would have been done by now.

Educate yourself on the actual ask.

In the grand scheme of things hockey arenas are rather cheap, coming in at around $400M or so. Most of the individual Flames owners could fairly comfortably cut a cheque for that, collectively no problem.

But they didnt get rich by writing a lot of cheques.

[rumy]

KK's responses on the Fan 960 earlier this week were very carefully selected regarding a potential relocation threat, in order to avoid such speculation and "media blowing things out of proportion" that CBC has done here. I firmly believe that he and the Flames are open to working with the city to find a solution. If this mayor is anti new arena, it's only a few more years and a new guy will be in there: hopefully that mayor is more open to a constructive relationship with the Flames. Love the Flames, would never want to see them go. Love the Saddledome, but we do need a new arena and it will be critical in 10-15 years; considering it takes ~5 years to fully plan and construct such a a facility, the time to get this hammered out is preferably now, but needs to be done within the next 4 years at the latest. GFG!!!


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[Badgers Nose]

I am disappointed a smart guy like KK got baited into saying something so stupid on the eve of the Flames punching their post season ticket.

Just shut up about this stuff until the off season.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Table 5

I think the mayor needs to take a course in tact and etiquette, but in general I can look past it because I agree with the message he is saying....public money should go towards public benefit.

Outside of the courses in tact and etiquette, he's also not very collaborative (in my opinion) when working with anyone. I'm not going to go down the debate on funding for this project, I've made my opinion known, and it doesn't really matter.

My point being, regardless of project, he's not a collaborative guy outside of his need for tact. In this situation, you seem ok with that because you actually don't believe this is an issue he should or needs to be collaborative on, and fair enough. But the type of tactics the Flames are going to need to use in this discussion aren't unique to them given how our mayor generally conducts himself (again, in my opinion).

[Corral]

Seems to me the real dispute for which there is no prospect of common ground is about where the new arena would be located. The rest of the mess can be negotiated. The city is quite properly drawing its line here - no legitimate government allows a small collection of people to dictate land use development in their region.

The flames score no points for getting the local media to release this the day after the flames clinch a playoff spot. Make no mistake, the Flames controlled the timing of this media story being released in Calgary.

[Boreal]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I love the style and character of the Dome, but after having been to some of the newer arenas in the league, it is pretty obvious and depressing how outdated it is as an NHL facility. I have no doubt that the arena has become a limiting factor generating revenue.

The question for me is, does Bettman see Calgary as a Pittsburgh or Phoenix where he gets involved at a high level to make it happen? Or does he Winnipeg us but saying nice things while pushing away?

Correct. I wish that weasel would just request a meeting with the Mayor, keep his mouth shut and not stir up crap through the press. This seems to always come to a head whenever he comes to town and opens his mouth. But maybe this is his schtick, to generate debate and be the whipping boy for ownership.

[Southside]

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

I am disappointed a smart guy like KK got baited into saying something so stupid on the eve of the Flames punching their post season ticket.

Just shut up about this stuff until the off season.

Unfortunately we have a mayor with a mouth that knows no season.