Calgarypuck Prospect Ranking 2017 - Round 6

[Torture]

I think Gillies is being underrated based on other "shiny new toys".

He's got #1 potential. He put up a solid season with Stockton which was essentially his first full season at the AHL level. Along with that, he got a game where he showed he can play in the NHL.

He may be a goalie but he's more of a sure bet than Fox or Poirier that's for sure.

[Strange Brew]

A-hee-ahee ha-hee!

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Torture

I think Gillies is being underrated based on other "shiny new toys".

He's got #1 potential. He put up a solid season with Stockton which was essentially his first full season at the AHL level. Along with that, he got a game where he showed he can play in the NHL.

He may be a goalie but he's more of a sure bet than Fox or Poirier that's for sure.

I think Gillies's fall in the rankings has a lot more to do with his somewhat disappointing AHL season, and very little to do with "shiny new toys."

[flame^thrower]

I went with Gillies. Was pretty excited about him when we drafted him and I still think he can be a good one.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Don't think Gillies had a disappointing year. It was a bit up and down but the Flames and Treliving have talked about it being a good year for his development. Not easy to come back after surgery and a year off, let's not downplay that. I think his year is a bit unfairly criticized amongst the fan base because Rittich looks more developed. Rittich being more developed right now with his more extensive pro experience doesn't mean Gillies isn't on track in his own development. Rittich impressing does not mean Gillies disappointed.

Think it should be Gillies here because of his upside as a star goalie. I don't see any probable 1st liners or top 3 defencemen left on the list.

[SuperMatt18]

Has to be Fox now for me - really the 4 d-men are equal and interchangeable. You could argue ranking them in any order and I'm not sure anybody can really disagree with you outside of personal preference.

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Fox

I honestly think we are under-rating him because he is a small d-man. The resume this guy has put up is unheralded - really he is our d-man version of Johnny Gaudreau.

US National Development Team: Highest scoring season by a d-man ever.

U-18 World Championship: Named tournament top d-man.

Harvard: Led all NCAA d-men in scoring as a freshman. The highest PPG in a season by a U-19 aged d-man in the NCAA since Bryan Leetch in 1986/87.

World Juniors: 4 points as an under age d-man and a gold medal.

Sure he is small but the numbers he has put up are unprecedented. At the same age he has outproduced guys like Werenski and McAvoy who look like studs right now. Or look at the similarly sized Gostisbehere who never did anything close to Fox at those levels.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Don't think Gillies had a disappointing year. It was a bit up and down but the Flames and Treliving have talked about it being a good year for his development. Not easy to come back after surgery and a year off, let's not downplay that. I think his year is a bit unfairly criticized amongst the fan base because Rittich looks more developed. Rittich being more developed right now with his more extensive pro experience doesn't mean Gillies isn't on track in his own development. Rittich impressing does not mean Gillies disappointed...

I think an entire missed year of hockey absolutely means that he is no longer on track, and is now a little behind. I don't disagree that he still has excellent potential, and will not be surprised if he returns to form and to the top of the rankings, but he has absolutely and rightly slipped in the meantime.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Don't think Gillies had a disappointing year. It was a bit up and down but the Flames and Treliving have talked about it being a good year for his development. Not easy to come back after surgery and a year off, let's not downplay that. I think his year is a bit unfairly criticized amongst the fan base because Rittich looks more developed. Rittich being more developed right now with his more extensive pro experience doesn't mean Gillies isn't on track in his own development. Rittich impressing does not mean Gillies disappointed.

Think it should be Gillies here because of his upside as a star goalie. I don't see any probable 1st liners or top 3 defencemen left on the list.

Re; bolded Who wouldn't they say this about? Gillies could well still make it but as the rankings are relative, its reasonable that he's slipped IMO.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Went with Fox on this one. I am even not that personally high on Fox, but when you set a record and then follow it up in a tougher environment with something that hasn't been seen in over a decade, it earns my vote. I am still a bit unsure of him as a prospect - I want him to increase his foot-speed for me to be more comfortable with him (he isn't slow, but he is going to need to be quicker to get at those pucks rather than try to battle it out with forecheckers as often).

Gillies SHOULD be right here - and one only needs to reflect back at the numerous awards and accolades he has earned - but he DID have a bit of a down season after surgery. I have to place Rittich ahead of Gillies. More composed, better rebound control and seems to be quicker in net.

There is a solid 5 or 6 prospects one can vote for at this point and defend with solid reasoning. Poirier is not a terrible selection here. If you believe he is back on track, he could provide a really important cog to any long playoff run aspirations this team may have. He is a handful to play against in a few different ways with his ability to PK, fore-check, use his speed deceptively for defence and offence, and be a real physical pain in the butt to play against. I don't think Scorpion should be scolded in the least for his selection (nor anyone else for their's, unless it is simply an annoying troll wasting his own time trying to disrupt the voting).

The only wrong votes in my opinion are votes where you can't rationalize them. I may not agree with your selection, but I find it interesting to read why someone is high on a certain prospect. Makes these threads actually interesting.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Don't think Gillies had a disappointing year. It was a bit up and down but the Flames and Treliving have talked about it being a good year for his development. Not easy to come back after surgery and a year off, let's not downplay that. I think his year is a bit unfairly criticized amongst the fan base because Rittich looks more developed. Rittich being more developed right now with his more extensive pro experience doesn't mean Gillies isn't on track in his own development. Rittich impressing does not mean Gillies disappointed.

Think it should be Gillies here because of his upside as a star goalie. I don't see any probable 1st liners or top 3 defencemen left on the list.

Rittich impressing may not say that Gillies is disappointing - totally agree. However, Rittich impressing might mean that Rittich is an impressive prospect on his own? He isn't some 30 year old career AHL'er (in fact, just a year older - one single year). I can understand why you are high on Gillies still - and there is absolutely nothing wrong with having that conviction. I just think that there is absolutely nothing wrong with having Rittich possibly being a better prospect even though the Flames haven't invested much into him like they have in Gillies.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I think an entire missed year of hockey absolutely means that he is no longer on track, and is now a little behind. I don't disagree that he still has excellent potential, and will not be surprised if he returns to form and to the top of the rankings, but he has absolutely and rightly slipped in the meantime.

Okay. But based on him missing a year we still voted him our #3 prospect last summer. Now he actually plays, has a decent year but could potentially drop out of the top 6? That is bordering on him being massively underrated. His season wasn't a "disappointment" like is being parroted in this thread over and over. I'm not sure why people consider it such. My speculation was that Rittich's pleasantly surprising performance is making people think less of Gillies's season.

As for the on track vs behind, obviously missing a year sets him back in terms of timeline. I more meant it in the sense that his development is back on track now that he's healthy. I don't think Rittich being further ahead in his development right this second means Rittich is suddenly the better prospect longterm and I would caution that type of thinking.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Re; bolded Who wouldn't they say this about? Gillies could well still make it but as the rankings are relative, its reasonable that he's slipped IMO.

Treliving doesn't blow smoke up people's arses IMO. He doesn't go out of his way to hype or sell prospects. He doesn't say things are rosy when they aren't. There are a lot of prospects that he would probably say didn't have a great year of development. Poirier for example. All the prospects we didn't qualify for example.

He could've easily said Gillies had a disappointing year. But he didn't. You can listen to the interview after the Smith acquisition again if you didn't hear his comments.

[CsInMyBlood]

Picked Fox, thought Gilles was already gone as I picked him in previous rounds. Doh.

[N-E-B]

Gillies for me. It was between him and Foo for me.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

Rittich impressing may not say that Gillies is disappointing - totally agree. However, Rittich impressing might mean that Rittich is an impressive prospect on his own? He isn't some 30 year old career AHL'er (in fact, just a year older - one single year). I can understand why you are high on Gillies still - and there is absolutely nothing wrong with having that conviction. I just think that there is absolutely nothing wrong with having Rittich possibly being a better prospect even though the Flames haven't invested much into him like they have in Gillies.

Rittich is an impressive prospect on his own. I just think its dangerous to read too much into any one season for a developing goaltending. So to me Rittich being better than Gillies last season doesn't necessarily mean Rittich has passed Gillies. But I do think they are both great prospects. I think they're close, I think its debateable. If someone wants to argue for Rittich in this spot I can see the argument.

I was more arguing that people seem to be down on Gillies because Rittich outshone him and I don't think there's any reason to be down on Gillies. I don't think he disappointed. He came back from surgery, the team was a bit up and down and so was Gillies. That doesn't mean we should be down on Gillies. I think the "disappointing season" narrative is a bit overblown in this thread. Gillies improved over the course of the season, stayed healthy. Even had a solid NHL game. Lots of positives there, don't see a lot of negatives. And yet everyone seems to be down on him?

[Jiri Hrdina]

Fox, Gillies, Foo and Dube are my next four. Order is tough to establish though.

[Five-hole]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Okay. But based on him missing a year we still voted him our #3 prospect last summer. Now he actually plays, has a decent year but could potentially drop out of the top 6? That is bordering on him being massively underrated. His season wasn't a "disappointment" like is being parroted in this thread over and over. I'm not sure why people consider it such. My speculation was that Rittich's pleasantly surprising performance is making people think less of Gillies's season.

As for the on track vs behind, obviously missing a year sets him back in terms of timeline. I more meant it in the sense that his development is back on track now that he's healthy. I don't think Rittich being further ahead in his development right this second means Rittich is suddenly the better prospect longterm and I would caution that type of thinking.

I'm on board with your comments in this thread except reading too much into relative placement year over year in these polls. It's not mutually exclusive that a prospect has a good development year but drops in the rankings because other prospects have fantastic seasons and leap ahead of them.

It might show some recency bias on the part of fans (and there's no doubt plenty of that to go around), but it doesn't necessarily show that fans are down on Gillies.

That said, I voted Gillies this round. Didn't vote last round but would have voted him ahead of Kylington too.

[dissentowner]

I am not as high on Gillies as others are. Unlike Parsons I am not sure what he will be, could be a starter, a backup, or nothing. Had to go with Fox again.

[getbak]

Fox again.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

. I don't think Rittich being further ahead in his development right this second means Rittich is suddenly the better prospect longterm and I would caution that type of thinking.

I counter with:

"why does that just-as-suddenly mean Gillies is the better long term prospect?"

Because IMO the only thing Gillies has visibly over Rittich is maybe a marginally better glove hand (emphasis on maybe). Rittich is a better skater and may be more athletic, they're both large goalies (6'4" / 6'5"), Rittich's rebound control comes seemingly natural to him whereas Gillies has been working on it for years and has had his ups and downs in that area, neither is known for their puck handling.

Mentally, I can't say Gillies is necessarily ahead either. Both look to have strong constitutions, but Rittich seemed to have a better attitude last year with less outright meltdowns. It's not like he wasn't an AHL rookie last year... he was a rookie to North American hockey who spent a few parts early in the season just learning the language his teammates were speaking with him. Even a simple "leave it" instruction was something he needed time to learn to understand, along with the different angles needed on the ice sheet being used.

What is Gillies going to add, developmentally, that makes him clearly the better prospect long term? At this point the main reason GIllies is considered the "better prospect longterm" is because he once had a solid college career, which seems to be over-weighing past accomplishments over long term projecting... which seems to be the opposite of what you caution against. Last year wasn't a blip in the radar for a proven pro... it was the first North American Pro season for two players who are roughly a year apart in age. One was coming from amateur hockey, the other from a different size ice sheet and language barriers. Yet the one who was clearly better in nearly every regard, right down to being the only one to win playoff games at the end of the year, is being downplayed because he wasn't a known quantity for five years prior.

At this point I'm just going to watch things unfold, as both are solid prospects, but I am not putting a whole lot of stock into amateur performances. You have to give Gillies some reprieve for his early season inconsistency with the return from injury, but that still doesn't mean he's shown any clear superiority in upside.