Calgarypuck Prospect Ranking 2016 - Round 5

[TheScorpion]

Hickey. Shinkaruk, Pribyl, Andersson, Mangiapane next.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Flames Fan, Ph.D.

Poirier with my vote.

I think last year was an adjustment year in competing and learning to be an overall player. I hope the lesson was learned and this is the year he blossoms.

Wow. I don't think I have Poirier in my top 10 anymore.

Tkachuk
Gillies
Jankowski
Kylington
Shinkaruk
Hickey
Andersson
Mangiapane
Wotherspoon
Pribyl
Hathaway
Kulak
Poirier

Yeah...13th.

I have to ask what you're seeing that I'm missing. From what I saw he took a massive step back last year in the offensive game, and a minor step forward in his defensive game. When he got a couple games in the NHL he looked like a minor league player, which is how he looked the first time up as well.

I'm not sure Emile's going to make it unless he has a much, much better year this year.

[Robbob]

Poirier gets one more year of getting the benefit of the doubt as a 1st rounder for me. I think this is a critical year for him. You are right though, not a slam dunk top ten by any means.

[Bingo]

I'd pick Poirier as the likely comeback prospect of the year (though I think Klimchuk in another horse in that race).

From what Huska said I gathered that he wasn't ready for his 2nd year, thought he was too good for the AHL perhaps? If he's been humbled and is in better shape (guessing here) and in a better mental head space he could surprise.

Klimchuk I think is the same but for less commitment reasons. I just think he's a slow moving prospect that will ultimately get it done.

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Wow. I don't think I have Poirier in my top 10 anymore.

Tkachuk
Gillies
Jankowski
Kylington
Shinkaruk
Hickey
Andersson
Mangiapane
Wotherspoon
Pribyl
Hathaway
Kulak
Poirier

Yeah...13th.

I have to ask what you're seeing that I'm missing. From what I saw he took a massive step back last year in the offensive game, and a minor step forward in his defensive game. When he got a couple games in the NHL he looked like a minor league player, which is how he looked the first time up as well.

I'm not sure Emile's going to make it unless he has a much, much better year this year.

I get that.

I did my best to watch quite a few Stockton games last year. I thought he was working hard to bring responsibility and adjustments to his game to make him a better NHLer. Effectively, he was being the anti-Sven. I'm not too put off by the drop in offensive numbers in that learning a new facet of the game can impact other areas. I'm hoping he has committed last year's lessons to muscle memory and this year sees him leverage that to better focus on his strengths.

From what I've read by other posters, I clearly value observable adjustment and commitment to development disproportionately. This is also why I rated Jankowski highly yet I'm not as big on Andersson as others may be. If he can't wrap his head around the importance of conditioning and work at it over the last 12 months, I have serious concerns that he'll be able to dedicate himself and work hard to make the necessary adjustments to his game in the pros. What good is a high ceiling when you're too lazy to work your way up the ladder?

I do think this is a make-or-break year for Poirier and I understand the skepticism.

[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Wow. I don't think I have Poirier in my top 10 anymore.

Tkachuk
Gillies
Jankowski
Kylington
Shinkaruk
Hickey
Andersson
Mangiapane
Wotherspoon
Pribyl
Hathaway
Kulak
Poirier

Yeah...13th.

I have to ask what you're seeing that I'm missing. From what I saw he took a massive step back last year in the offensive game, and a minor step forward in his defensive game. When he got a couple games in the NHL he looked like a minor league player, which is how he looked the first time up as well.

I'm not sure Emile's going to make it unless he has a much, much better year this year.

I'm surprised you have Hathaway over our recent second round picks. Would you really not trade Tyler Parsons or Dillon Dube for a guy like Hathaway? The guy has a 4th line ceiling.

[Calgary4LIfe]

I went with Hickey here, and quite easily in fact as I found choosing between Hickey and Kylington a more difficult task.

Hickey has 'complete defencemen' all over him. He is great defensively, he is great offensively, he is physical, he has good size, and he is Brodie-like in his skating. For me, he is on another tier over Anderrson. I really like Andersson as well, and feel he has top 4 potential too, but his skating will not allow him to do what Hickey does.

Once again, this has nothing to do with Andersson's conditioning. I actually fully expect that to be rectified once he turns pro, and the Flames can keep a closer eye on him and monitor him regularly.

Eichel voted Hickey as having the best one-timer on the team, and he does do it well. He gets shots to the net from anywhere and from any quality of pass. That takes a lot of skill. Don't be fooled by Hickey's 'regression' last season. That entire team imploded last year, remember? Some players left halfway through the season. Hickey himself was rumored to move to the Red Deer Rebels, but he chose to stick it out at BU.

If the Flames have a Giordano in their prospect pool, it is Hickey. He is that rare combination of.. everything! Just like Doughty. Kid does it all out there, and is even more physical. I really believe that something has to go wrong with his development for him not to make the Flames in the upcoming years - I think of him that highly. His floor is incredibly high for me - a competent bottom pairing. He will make the show. I think he could even go so far as to become a top pairing defencemen, but with Kylington in the pipeline and having the ceiling he does, and Brodie being as young as he is, I think Hickey will end up becoming a 2nd pairing guy. A real good 2nd pairing guy like Hamilton will be.

Out of all the current Flames defencemen, I view him as the absolute safest bet to make it and be an impact player. Kylington got my vote earlier because I think he will have an even bigger impact, yet he carries slightly more risk. Andersson I see as a solid middle-pairing upside guy who does everything well, but just doesn't have the skating of Kylington or Hickey, which will limit how effective he is playing a full 200ft like the two aforementioned guys can, though he will still be valuable back there.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Doesn't take much of a hockey scout to see that the upside of Ollas Mattsson doesn't match either of Andersson or Kylington.

Could have more to do with the way he plays (need more physical players to compliment other finesse defensemen) or the politics of OM staying home while Andersson and Kylington have taken different routes (Kylington a young pro then AHL, Andersson OHL).

Or ... maybe it's the documented attitude of Kylington and conditioning of Andersson.

Hard to say.

But OM is a stay at home 5/7 projection blueliner

That would kind of indicate that there will be no more defense first d-men in the top-4 ever. Haljmarson is the last of the top-4 20pts d-men?

Actually in the last season there were 23 d-men with more than 60 games more than 20 minutes a game who had 20 or less points.

No room for one of these guys on the Flames? Or only Hickey?

Is Hickey that far ahead of him playing in the NCCA? They were were similar in similar roles at the WJC. What moves Hickey into to-4 prospect and keeps Mattsson out?


How do you identify the top end of someone like Mattsson? His is playing in the SHL (against men) 22 games 4 pts +3 and does not seem to be overmatched. He has been added to all the age appropriate national teams.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

I'm surprised you have Hathaway over our recent second round picks. Would you really not trade Tyler Parsons or Dillon Dube for a guy like Hathaway? The guy has a 4th line ceiling.

Yup, 4th line ceiling for sure, but he seems like he could be a valuable player in that agitator role. We haven't had that for awhile. Plus, he's right on the cusp of making the team full time, and he's been getting stellar reviews from management and coaches for his work ethic, commitment, and humility (or something like that).

What I saw last year was a guy who's ready for the big leagues, especially in a 4th line position. Both he and Shinkaruk are ahead of some other prospects that will project to being better players simply because of their NHL readiness and the value they can add to the club.

As for Parsons et al, I like the picks, but they didn't blow me away either. There are quite a few solid players in the Flames system that they would have to unseat, and I'm not sure they're better than any of the ones I listed.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

That would kind of indicate that there will be no more defense first d-men in the top-4 ever. Haljmarson is the last of the top-4 20pts d-men?

Actually in the last season there were 23 d-men with more than 60 games more than 20 minutes a game who had 20 or less points.

No room for one of these guys on the Flames? Or only Hickey?

Is Hickey that far ahead of him playing in the NCCA? They were were similar in similar roles at the WJC. What moves Hickey into to-4 prospect and keeps Mattsson out?


How do you identify the top end of someone like Mattsson? His is playing in the SHL (against men) 22 games 4 pts +3 and does not seem to be overmatched. He has been added to all the age appropriate national teams.

We're just rating prospects here. It's not the ricardo 20 questions game.

[Strange Brew]

Went with Hickey ahead of the fat kid.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

That would kind of indicate that there will be no more defense first d-men in the top-4 ever. Haljmarson is the last of the top-4 20pts d-men?

Actually in the last season there were 23 d-men with more than 60 games more than 20 minutes a game who had 20 or less points.

No room for one of these guys on the Flames? Or only Hickey?

Is Hickey that far ahead of him playing in the NCCA? They were were similar in similar roles at the WJC. What moves Hickey into to-4 prospect and keeps Mattsson out?


How do you identify the top end of someone like Mattsson? His is playing in the SHL (against men) 22 games 4 pts +3 and does not seem to be overmatched. He has been added to all the age appropriate national teams.

I don't rate prospects based on project-able space for them on the Flames. Couldn't care less. They are assets that can be moved, or assets to replace older assets that can be moved.

I wouldn't say that you have to be a point producer to be in the top 4, but I do think you have to be able to move the puck quickly (see the ice) and be able to skate your way past the first guy.

The big lumbering stay at home defensemen are the guys that are out of the top 4.

I don't know if OM is lumbering, but I certainly don't see him as a puck transitioner though some in camp said he's better at that than I thought.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Bingo

stay at home defensemen are the guys that are out of the top 4.

I don't know if OM is lumbering, but I certainly don't see him as a puck transitioner though some in camp said he's better at that than I thought.

As someone who's critical of stay st home guys in general, I just want to say that during the WJC I caught Sweden / AOM a few times and watching him I felt as if I was watching Niklas Hjalmarsson. He was moving the puck forward better than Hickey was every time I caught him all year (who was Kris Russelling it often). I didn't catch dev camp but all those reports fit what he played like in Helsinki.

The only thing limiting AOM's potential is his mobility/skating. Hjalmarsson is a top pair D and AOM statistically has matched him in every season thus far and plays a similar game (maybe a bit more physical). Skills-wise I actually do think he's got an edge over Hickey, though Hickey's one-timer is somethin special.

Andersson and Kylington are however my top two D prospects in their own tier. Then a very short drop to a group of four going:

Kulak
AOM
Hickey
Fox

[JTech780]

I went Hickey. His skating is so dynamic that it is hard to ignore. Andersson has good potential, but his all around game isn't great and his speed is average at best, I like my defensemen to be a little more fleet of foot. His conditioning has also been an issue since he was drafted and he hasn't taken the required steps to rectify it to this point.

Answer belongs in the top 10 just closer to 10 than 5.

[mikephoen]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

I went with Hickey here, and quite easily in fact as I found choosing between Hickey and Kylington a more difficult task.

Hickey has 'complete defencemen' all over him. He is great defensively, he is great offensively, he is physical, he has good size, and he is Brodie-like in his skating. For me, he is on another tier over Anderrson. I really like Andersson as well, and feel he has top 4 potential too, but his skating will not allow him to do what Hickey does.

Once again, this has nothing to do with Andersson's conditioning. I actually fully expect that to be rectified once he turns pro, and the Flames can keep a closer eye on him and monitor him regularly.

Eichel voted Hickey as having the best one-timer on the team, and he does do it well. He gets shots to the net from anywhere and from any quality of pass. That takes a lot of skill. Don't be fooled by Hickey's 'regression' last season. That entire team imploded last year, remember? Some players left halfway through the season. Hickey himself was rumored to move to the Red Deer Rebels, but he chose to stick it out at BU.

If the Flames have a Giordano in their prospect pool, it is Hickey. He is that rare combination of.. everything! Just like Doughty. Kid does it all out there, and is even more physical. I really believe that something has to go wrong with his development for him not to make the Flames in the upcoming years - I think of him that highly. His floor is incredibly high for me - a competent bottom pairing. He will make the show. I think he could even go so far as to become a top pairing defencemen, but with Kylington in the pipeline and having the ceiling he does, and Brodie being as young as he is, I think Hickey will end up becoming a 2nd pairing guy. A real good 2nd pairing guy like Hamilton will be.

Out of all the current Flames defencemen, I view him as the absolute safest bet to make it and be an impact player. Kylington got my vote earlier because I think he will have an even bigger impact, yet he carries slightly more risk. Andersson I see as a solid middle-pairing upside guy who does everything well, but just doesn't have the skating of Kylington or Hickey, which will limit how effective he is playing a full 200ft like the two aforementioned guys can, though he will still be valuable back there.

I voted Shinkaruk, but now I kind of wish I'd voted Hickey. You won me over. Looks like Hickey will take this one anyway, so I will vote Shinkaruk next round.

[TheIronMaiden]

It is interesting that we are ranking many young D men over Wotherspoon. At one point he was one of our premier defensive prospects. He was qualified so the Flames haven't given up on him. Does this mean he is going to be an AHL lifer, or will he get a couple call ups this season as a last chance to prove his worth? I have never been terribly impressed by my albeit limited viewings of him. With other talent chomping at the bit, he may have been surpassed on the managements list as well.

[FBI]

Picked Shinkaruk.
When will he become a Regular NHLer, tough to guess between 2016/2017 and 2017/2018 season. Guess I'll go optomistic and say he makes it this year.

[MarkGio]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Wow. I don't think I have Poirier in my top 10 anymore.

Tkachuk
Gillies
Jankowski
Kylington
Shinkaruk
Hickey
Andersson
Mangiapane
Wotherspoon
Pribyl
Hathaway
Kulak
Poirier

Yeah...13th.

I have to ask what you're seeing that I'm missing. From what I saw he took a massive step back last year in the offensive game, and a minor step forward in his defensive game. When he got a couple games in the NHL he looked like a minor league player, which is how he looked the first time up as well.

I'm not sure Emile's going to make it unless he has a much, much better year this year.

I would have Poirer over Wotherspoon, Hathaway, Kulak and Pribyl for sure. Poirer brings top speed, some agitation, and hands for goal scoring, and even though he has taken a step back, his skill set is mouth watering if he finds his way again. Guys like Hathaway and Pribyl are a dime a dozen. You could trade a 4th or 5th for that any day

[MarkGio]

What are these reports of Andersson being out of shape? Someone saw him at development camp breathing heavy? Sample size people. There's a lot of summer left in the year

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by MarkGio

What are these reports of Andersson being out of shape? Someone saw him at development camp breathing heavy? Sample size people. There's a lot of summer left in the year

Called out by the GM for two straight years. That's a red flag. How deep a red is up to you. For me it is a dark Crimson.