The Legend of Sam Bennett

[868904]

Originally Posted by New Era

Who was the smallest player Sutter had on his teams? I'll save you the time.

Calgary Flames 2003-04 - Andrew Ference 5'11, 182
Calgary Flames 2005-06 - Daymond Lankow, 5'10 181
Calgary Flames 2006-07 - Daymond Lankow, 5'10 181
Los Angeles Kings 2011-12 - Scott Parse, 5'11 189
Los Angeles Kings 2012-13 - Mike Richards, 5'11 196
Los Angeles Kings 2013-14 - Mike Richards, 5'11 196
Los Angeles Kings 2014-15 - David Van der Guilk, 5'10 173
Los Angeles Kings 2015-16 - Kris Versteeg, 5'11, 176
Los Angeles Kings 2016-17 - Tyler Tyfolli 6,0 198

This is the smallest team that Sutter has ever coached. It's going to get bigger.

Don't forget all the small/skilled and or "soft" players Darryl acquired as GM:

Tanguay, Huselius, Cammalleri, Nigel Dawes, Tony AMonte, Byron Ritchie, Ian White, Niklas Hagman. There's a bunch more under 6' and under 200lbs that i'm not bothering to include.

[Lanny_McDonald]

How did those teams fair again? And who was coaching? Suggesting Darryl Sutter's approach as a ####ty general manager is equivalent to his work as a coach, doesn't hold up. Sutter coached teams play a certain style and it requires beef. If you think he's going to be happy about having a bunch of soft midgets playing for him, you're crazy. Change is coming, and it isn't going to be pretty.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by New Era

How did those teams fair again? And who was coaching? Suggesting Darryl Sutter's approach as a ####ty general manager is equivalent to his work as a coach, doesn't hold up. Sutter coached teams play a certain style and it requires beef. If you think he's going to be happy about having a bunch of soft midgets playing for him, you're crazy. Change is coming, and it isn't going to be pretty.

But fun for you, ammirite?

And wait - Sutter's coaching doesn't hold up? Ii'd tell him that but his two Stanley Cup rings are in his ears.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by btimbit

I wanted to find out what Panthers fans think of the trade but every hockey forum I go to, there isn't any.

Panthers reddit page on it is all Flames fans stopping by to say they'll miss him

Just ask me. I am pretty much the entire fanbase population.

[Hockey-and_stuff]

Zach Hyman is a pretty effective NHLer. If Heineman can become something in that mold he will at least be an NHL player, which I consider a win.

From what I've read he kind of projects as Sam Bennett but faster and apparently a better shot. I'll take that too.

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[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by New Era

How did those teams fair again? And who was coaching? Suggesting Darryl Sutter's approach as a ####ty general manager is equivalent to his work as a coach, doesn't hold up. Sutter coached teams play a certain style and it requires beef. If you think he's going to be happy about having a bunch of soft midgets playing for him, you're crazy. Change is coming, and it isn't going to be pretty.

Let me blow your mind here as to how exactly you are confused.


You keep insinuating that Sutter hockey is smash-mouth hockey. That you need to be big and physical. That Sutter himself wants a big tough team.


Rinaldo - 1 game.
Robinson - 0 games.


Your mind should be blown right now.


Look, there are exactly 31 teams right now that want all their players to be huge, fast, skilled and smart, and who will run through the boards to win a game. It just simply difficult to do. Big players who are really good are difficult to acquire - either in the draft or through trades/UFA signings.


Cheap depth is cheap depth. That's when you can sign guys like Ritchie, Rinaldo and Robinson in the off-season, but that's not going to help you win games, is it?



Francis, Phillips, Pettersson, Pelletier and whomever else is talented enough to play in the NHL will play in the NHL if they compete hard, and help this team win. Sure, I will agree that neither Treliving nor Sutter want a completely under-sized team. Of course not. There isn't a single team in the NHL that wants this either. Hockey is still a contact sport, and size does matter.


Point being, that perhaps you are not realizing what Sutter hockey is if you think there is suddenly a complete 180 on what the Flames are doing. It was actually under his tenure as a GM that the Flames started to identify what to look for in prospects - character, compete, IQ, - nothing about size. That's from Todd Button, BTW. This is still mostly what the Flames identify today.


Notice that Leivo came back into the lineup yesterday? Why wasn't it Rinaldo or Robinson? Surely they are more 'Sutter types' that can play smash-mouth hockey, right? How do you possibly explain that rationale, especially since the trade deadline has passed, Leivo is still here with an expiring contract so he is not being showcased.


Sutter has also praised Ryan a number of times, as well as Mangiapane.



Sutter hockey isn't smash mouth hockey, and you don't need 6'+ only players to be effective. You are seeing this team starting to play more effectively now. The '04 Flames were huge and very physical and smashed everything in sight. That's what they did to be effective since that's what made them effective - everyone for the most part could skate well and hit well. Do you really believe that is something that Sutter demands? How many hits does Ryan have? You know he loves Ryan.


It isn't smashmouth hockey. It just isn't.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

But fun for you, ammirite?

And wait - Sutter's coaching doesn't hold up? Ii'd tell him that but his two Stanley Cup rings are in his ears.

I said you can't equate his work as a GM with that as a coach, because he actually had success as a coach and sucked as a GM, hence the comparison doesn't hold up. Might want to go take a look at the roster of those Stanley Cup championship teams. Both were big and mean. The Flames are neither. Change is a comin'.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by New Era

Who was the smallest player Sutter had on his teams? I'll save you the time.

Calgary Flames 2003-04 - Andrew Ference 5'11, 182
Calgary Flames 2005-06 - Daymond Lankow, 5'10 181
Calgary Flames 2006-07 - Daymond Lankow, 5'10 181
Los Angeles Kings 2011-12 - Scott Parse, 5'11 189
Los Angeles Kings 2012-13 - Mike Richards, 5'11 196
Los Angeles Kings 2013-14 - Mike Richards, 5'11 196
Los Angeles Kings 2014-15 - David Van der Guilk, 5'10 173
Los Angeles Kings 2015-16 - Kris Versteeg, 5'11, 176
Los Angeles Kings 2016-17 - Tyler Tyfolli 6,0 198

This is the smallest team that Sutter has ever coached. It's going to get bigger.

Calgary Flames 2006-07 - Daymond Lankow, 5'10 181

Ryan Francis is 19, 5'9 and 170. IMO it is very likely he could be 5'10 and over 180 by next year if he hits the gym (or eats a few poutines).

Langkow got plenty of playing time under Darryl.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

But fun for you, ammirite?

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nounPSYCHIATRY
inability to feel pleasure.

[Since1984]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Calgary Flames 2006-07 - Daymond Lankow, 5'10 181

Ryan Francis is 19, 5'9 and 170. IMO it is very likely he could be 5'10 and over 180 by next year if he hits the gym (or eats a few poutines).

Langkow got plenty of playing time under Darryl.

Daymond Langkow was a warrior and an exceptional 200 foot center that played games while sporting two broken hands....size not the be all end all.

If you compete every shift, are defensively responsible and show offensive acumen Darryl will love you. It doesn't matter what size you are.

He has just happened to have bigger teams when he won lord stanley's cup.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Since1984

Daymond Langkow was a warrior and an exceptional 200 foot center that played games while sporting two broken hands....size not the be all end all.

If you compete every shift, are defensively responsible and show offensive acumen Darryl will love you. It doesn't matter what size you are.

He has just happened to have bigger teams when he won lord stanley's cup.

This is the exact point i was trying to make. Just saying Ryan Francis has no shot to please Darryl or play for his flames because he's 5'9 is a poor take. He's 19, many people continue growing until they're in their early 20s.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by 868904

Don't forget all the small/skilled and or "soft" players Darryl acquired as GM:

Tanguay, Huselius, Cammalleri, Nigel Dawes, Tony AMonte, Byron Ritchie, Ian White, Niklas Hagman. There's a bunch more under 6' and under 200lbs that i'm not bothering to include.

Originally Posted by New Era

How did those teams fair again? And who was coaching? Suggesting Darryl Sutter's approach as a ####ty general manager is equivalent to his work as a coach, doesn't hold up. Sutter coached teams play a certain style and it requires beef. If you think he's going to be happy about having a bunch of soft midgets playing for him, you're crazy. Change is coming, and it isn't going to be pretty.

LOL

You think we should just ignore Sutter's player decisions as a GM, just because he didn't have success as a GM? Do you listen to yourself? Are you that indoctrinated to your own opinions that you are trying to argue that GM Sutter is a different person than coach Sutter?

You are spewing a singular, overly simplified narrative. It's just garbage.

[ForeverFlameFan]

This thread needs more Jankowski

[djsFlames]

The absence of Janko/Bennett squabbling is going to make the board much more palatable.

But of course it won't take long to find a new young player debate to go in circles on ad nauseum.

[Flames1217]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

This is the exact point i was trying to make. Just saying Ryan Francis has no shot to please Darryl or play for his flames because he's 5'9 is a poor take. He's 19, many people continue growing until they're in their early 20s.

Francis will be liked by Sutter if he does make it to the bigs.

Francis plays with a low center of gravity and is very sturdy. He doesn't go out head hunting but he is very good at retrieving pucks along the boards. It's like a sneaky good talent of his.

For Francis to make it to the NHL he doesn't have a huge list of things to work on.

Francis needs to get stronger, he needs to somewhat correct his skating ( not slow just clunky), work on his gaps a little and faceoffs (if he is a center which I doubt he will be in the NHL). He already has a good Hockey IQ and is where he needs to be most of the time.

In all honesty Poirier is going to have a lot harder time making to the NHL than Francis in my opinion. If Poirier doesn't clean up his defensive effort he will never play a game in the NHL.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

The absence of Janko/Bennett squabbling is going to make the board much more palatable.

But of course it won't take long to find a new young player debate to go in circles on ad nauseum.

Heinemania!

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Since1984

Daymond Langkow was a warrior and an exceptional 200 foot center that played games while sporting two broken hands....size not the be all end all.

If you compete every shift, are defensively responsible and show offensive acumen Darryl will love you. It doesn't matter what size you are.

He has just happened to have bigger teams when he won lord stanley's cup.

Yeah, I am sure Sutter would bend over backwards to get a Marchand or Gallagher. Size often helps though. I always forget Langkow was below average in height. It was never a detriment so not really something I really noticed.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

The absence of Janko/Bennett squabbling is going to make the board much more palatable.

But of course it won't take long to find a new young player debate to go in circles on ad nauseum.

If Bennett was drafted in the 3rd round or even 2nd round, I don’t think anyone would complain about him. He just became a symbol of the overall failure of the team in general. I think the Flames have the fewest top 5 picks of any franchise in the past 30 year and the one that we get was a bust for that purpose. It’s hard to get past that. Jankowski being a 1at rounder gets haters for a similar reason.

[Eric Vail]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

If Bennett was drafted in the 3rd round or even 2nd round, I don’t think anyone would complain about him. He just became a symbol of the overall failure of the team in general. I think the Flames have the fewest top 5 picks of any franchise in the past 30 year and the one that we get was a bust for that purpose. It’s hard to get past that. Jankowski being a 1at rounder gets haters for a similar reason.

Both those players had posters fall completely in love with them because of their draft position as well, and the blame for their poor play always fell on others (coaching, linemates, officiating, etc.). If they had been 3rd rounders, no one would have continually excused them. They would have been held more accountable by those posters.

[CalgaryFan1988]

An Athletic article has Bennett listed as 26yo. I didn't think he was that old yet, only 24 still. I really hope he can turn his career around in Florida.