Bedard/Michkov Sweepstakes

[868904]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Scorching the earth would be fun because it would be something different. I'm all for that.
But I just don't think that's what they are going to do

I actually think a scorched earth might not be a bad idea with Darryl.

Get rid of the prima donnas and sign him a bunch of pluggers and bangers to play a tight defense first system and see what he can do. Darryl works best with foot soldiers and a good goalie. Open the vault for Ian Clarke, pay him whatever he wants and get Markstrom back to where he was.

Hope that with the 1st round picks you might get from trading the core, turn out into a lottery win. Pick the right teams you think might crash and hey, if our core sucks so bad, they will help drag these teams down too into lottery position.

[djsFlames]

I would try to load up for a last run next year with Sutter (kind of a waste of Sutter otherwise) with some wise offseason signings and then go scorched earth if the group doesn't deliver, aka not firmly a playoff team by next deadline.

Doing it next year doesn't make too much of a difference outside of that little bit of term for Gaudreau.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

That high end talent isn't unlike other teams have. Anaheim has an elite goaltender and doesn't have any problem being a poor hockey club.

Gibson is young enough to come out of the rebuild why waste the 31-36 ages of Markstrom if you only hope to compete after he is 35?

Same with Lindholm. Why keep him around for less than $5M when it will cost $7+ to re-sign him when the team competes.

Only real core piece that would make sense keeping through a rebuild would be Tkachuk because he is only 23 and could be 27-28 when the team turns it around but I don’t think he has the appetite for it.

[8sPOT]

Worst case scenario is the exact same core is back next year. Just can't see that happening though, minimum 1 core piece moved out, hopefully two. I'm really hoping Treliving can pull off some more of those draft day blockbusters.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by 8sPOT

Worst case scenario is the exact same core is back next year. Just can't see that happening though, minimum 1 core piece moved out, hopefully two. I'm really hoping Treliving can pull off some more of those draft day blockbusters.

Yes, more of those 1 good NHLer for 2 good NHLer blockbusters.

[Macho0978]

I’m hoping for a draft day blockbuster but more of adding picks in this draft and next

I’m very interested in the lottery too. If we win it I’d love to see a trade down scenario to get rid of lucic.

[Wood]

Is there any precedent for a true scorched earth, trade everyone of value, rebuild in NHL history? Genuinely asking, I wouldn't be opposed to it but it seems highly unlikely

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by Wood

Is there any precedent for a true scorched earth, trade everyone of value, rebuild in NHL history? Genuinely asking, I wouldn't be opposed to it but it seems highly unlikely

I don’t think it ever really happens but the Flames traded jay bo and iggy at the deadline and tried to trade kipper then too but he blocked it. You could make a case that is similar just with older players.

I don’t think the Flames will trade everyone but when I look at the contract scenarios it’s possible that talks with Johnny and Tkachuk go nowhere this summer and it’s possible they both move. If they get moved for youth this team will be bad enough

Will Gio ask for trade if that happens? Would not Blame him

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Wood

Is there any precedent for a true scorched earth, trade everyone of value, rebuild in NHL history? Genuinely asking, I wouldn't be opposed to it but it seems highly unlikely

I guess that depends on how you define it. But the Penguins burned it down to this godawful roster to put themselves in a position to draft Crosby and Malkin:

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/...000502004.html

This is the Blackhawks roster before drafting Toews and Kane:

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/...000352006.html

And the Senators basically sold off every veteran of value two seasons ago to set up their rebuild.

Other than hanging on to Larkin, Yzerman has been doing everything he can to ice a lousy roster in Detroit. That’s why the organization is so pissed about being lushed back in the draft by lottery winners the last two years - those were deliberately planned to be top-3 draft years.

The salary floor means there’s a limit to how deep the selloff can be. But teams have absolutely made a strategic decision to dive to the bottom of the standings.

[InternationalVillager]

The Washington Capitals had a fire sale to put themselves in a position to get Ovechkin, Backstrom.

The reason why it was more accepted back in the day was because the draft was still a crapshoot. So what if a team had a 1st overall pick. You could still end up with duds. What people are not accounting for is the progression and advancement in scouting and analytics where the true player deserving of a top pick are actually being selected at the top of the draft. Drafts are becoming more accurate so rules are being put in place to not award teams multiple 1st overall or top 3 picks because those picks will actually turn a team into a powerhouse today.

Players would be drafted 15 years ago in the draft in the 1st round due to "intangibles". Which would be ridiculous today. That's why the Flames draft history was disastrous because they didn't adapt with the times.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

I guess that depends on how you define it. But the Penguins burned it down to this godawful roster to put themselves in a position to draft Crosby and Malkin:

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/...000502004.html

This is the Blackhawks roster before drafting Toews and Kane:

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/...000502004.html

And the Senators basically sold off every veteran of value two seasons ago to set up their rebuild.

The salary floor means there’s a limit to how deep the selloff can be. But teams have absolutely made a strategic decision to dive to the bottom of the standings.

Bad rosters is one thing but not sure those teams traded a bunch of players away in short period of time to get there. Just bad management got them there and financial issues. That’s different. What team traded all star caliber players away in there prime all at once when they were a playoff team a couple years in a row?

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

Sj has good reason to be down there. That recent cup run was part of it. But it’s going to be a long haul fixing it so that why I have them last. The age and contracts of there highest paid guys is very scary. They might need 5 years or more

Even the minnesota is playing well their situation still is going to be tough to fix. Unless someone retires early which may be a possibility with parise and surer the way their contracts are structured

Chicago is still a mess and they probably won’t figure it out before Kane gets old. Unless they trade him. He still has good value

After that though the Flames are no better off then any team. Maybe teams like Boston are on the verge but they are too good now to put them down there

Chicago has lots of young talent in addition to Kane.

We’d kill to have a young centre like Dach to build around.


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[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

Bad rosters is one thing but not sure those teams traded a bunch of players away in short period of time to get there. Just bad management got them there and financial issues. That’s different. What team traded all star caliber players away in there prime all at once when they were a playoff team a couple years in a row?

The Penguins traded away Jagr, Kasparaitis, Richer, Kovalev, and Straka. The latter two were the #2 and #3 scorers on the roster when they were moved (after Lemieux, who was only still playing himself because he was a part owner).

In the season before the 2004 (Ovechkin) draft the Capitals had a fire-sale, trading away Jagr, Lang, Gonchar, Nylander, Carter, and Grier - 4 of their top 5 scorers.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

The Penguins traded away Jagr, Kasparaitis, Richer, Kovalev, and Straka. The latter two were the #2 and #3 scorers on the roster when they were moved (after Lemieux, who was only still playing himself because he was a part owner).

In the season before the 2004 (Ovechkin) draft the Capitals had a fire-sale, trading away Jagr, Lang, Gonchar, Nylander, Carter, and Grier - 4 of their top 5 scorers.

How many of those were pending UFAs?

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[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

How many of those were pending UFAs?

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I don’t know. Is your google broken?

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

I don’t know. Is your google broken?

Yes.

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[howard_the_duck]

It's not like the Flames position is terribly far away from pending UFA status.

Whether or not they decide to deal them for futures or not, it seems unlikely that the Monahan/Gaudreau era will continue too much longer given their contracts and the team's trajectory.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

How many of those were pending UFAs?

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And was the decision made to make a run at AO and Sid or did financial difficulties influence their decisions? No salary cap too all teams that were mid to small markets were losing players like Jagr

Washington seems like a good example but not sure if Jagrs salary played a part in why he was moved. Pre lockout he was making over 10 mil per year

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

It's not like the Flames position is terribly far away from pending UFA status.

Whether or not they decide to deal them for futures or not, it seems unlikely that the Monahan/Gaudreau era will continue too much longer given their contracts and the team's trajectory.

That’s why I think it’s possible because change is needed and Johnny and Tkachuk can resign this summer. Hopefully Brad makes that a priority to get those talks going early in summer. He tends to drag his feet on this and slow to pull trigger if it doesn’t happen. My worry is they don’t resign and they are still here and we are fighting for playoffs next year so nothing happens trade deadline either

[InternationalVillager]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

That’s why I think it’s possible because change is needed and Johnny and Tkachuk can resign this summer. Hopefully Brad makes that a priority to get those talks going early in summer. He tends to drag his feet on this and slow to pull trigger if it doesn’t happen. My worry is they don’t resign and they are still here and we are fighting for playoffs next year so nothing happens trade deadline either

Sounds like a story made in heaven for the Flames. I think Gaudreau should be traded at the draft and Monahan, Gio, Tkachuk shortly thereafter. There should be a fire sale.

I don't think anyone is going to want Backlund so he's going to unfortunately have to stay and you can trade him at the TDL at 50% retained.

Build around Lindholm, Hanifin, Markstrom and fill out the rest of your roster with your younger players/minimum level/1-2M players. Yes Markstrom will be older towards the end of his contract but he can be a buffer for our top goalie prospect - Dustin Wolf.

Get Darryl Sutter to build an identity for the team from the ground up. Why should he not be up to that task? A team should just hand him a roster which is ready to contend for the Cup? A lot of people forget that 03-04 roster was not in the slightest expected to win a cup. Sutter laid the foundation. Get him to do so again.

Go into 2022/2023 draft with hopes of getting a Wright/Bedard/Michkov or atleast get the higher end talent which is only available in the top 5. Start building around those players. Have Sutter man the helm for the next 4-5 years and see where it takes you.

There are no shortcuts to building an outstanding organization. Have to start from the ground floor. I just don't buy the concept that Sutter is not into building teams and building up team identities. He's a farmer FFS. He's been raised his entire life with core values such as a tremendous work ethic.