Can the Flames win a cup with Johnny Hockey as the man ?

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Canadian market is much harsher on players...talk around town right now is all Gaudreau/Mony...losers, wimps ect.

You think the average Joe in SJ even cares? How many big name high end free agents have actually signed in places like Calgary or Edmonton. Average players will come if you over pay.

Those issues go beyond this current conversation however.
People won't sign in Calgary/EDM/WPG regardless of complaining fans on message boards.

While some reactions yesterday were overblown (my own included); I don't think the questions being asked in this thread are anything abnormal.
If they can't handle this thread, they're even softer than people are thinking.

[nik-]

I've long felt that we can't win with Gaudreau as the main man but that's not a Gaudreau problem, it's a team construction problem. Some of it is just #### luck, we never drafted high enough to get the truly elite center a team needs.

Gaudreau is a top tier sidekick on a winning team. He's a small skilled winger and shouldn't be the one carrying that load.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

Who cares where he was drafted? Means nothing. Johnny is getting blame because he's the best player on the team. That's where it usually falls.

This might be true however maybe, just maybe it is the fan expectations that are the problem. Too many fans when things are not going right get irrational and say things about players they would never say to their own parents, or to that player face to face. Johnny may be the best player on the team but lets not question his character when there may be other mitigating factors we "fans"are unaware of. We are neither the players or the coaches so we don't always have all the facts. I bet you every guy in that dressing room wants to win and they want to do it for the fans. Unfortunately as fans we don't appreciate what they have accomplished all season and want to lay blame on someones footsteps even if it is the best player on the team..., because well..; We are fans and think we can say whatever because we feel like it. Fans are fans and sometimes the ones spouting irrational stuff are a bigger problem.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

Those issues go beyond this current conversation however.
People won't sign in Calgary/EDM/WPG regardless of complaining fans on message boards.

While some reactions yesterday were overblown (my own included); I don't think the questions being asked in this thread are anything abnormal.
If they can't handle this thread, they're even softer than people are thinking.

Not just the thread but in general...they are being called out on all media for a few bad games after the 2nd best season in franchise history.

The five o'clock news was questioning their heart FFS, JG is a whiner ect.

Personally I would sign elsewhere...I just can't see Hall putting himself through that again.

His team ####ing sucked this season and he is a cult hero for winning the draft lottery again. I promise you the local 5 O'clock news in NJ has never implied that Taylor Hall doesn't have what it takes to lead a team. "Taylor who?"

[TheOnlyBilko]

It's not just the playoffs. Johnny was having a phenomenal season until the all star break. Once he came back from the team and all star break he absolutely died off. HE had been keeping pretty good pace with Kucherov for most of the year up until then. At one point he was on pace for 125 points.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by TheOnlyBilko

It's not just the playoffs. Johnny was having a phenomenal season until the all star break. Once he came back from the team and all star break he absolutely died off. HE had been keeping pretty good pace with Kucherov for most of the year up until then. At one point he was on pace for 125 points.

It's a team game, his linemates especially Monahan have been brutal since the break. he's been frustrated since and probably hates the game right now.

And for those thinking Johnny will never be the man in the post season just need to remember it took a player like Datsyuk 5 playoff years before he "got it"

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

It's a team game, his linemates especially Monahan have been brutal since the break. he's been frustrated since and probably hates the game right now.

And for those thinking Johnny will never be the man in the post season just need to remember it took a player like Datsyuk 5 playoff years before he "got it"

So has JG......so why are you blaming Monahan for Gaudreau being a no-show?

He is either unable or unwilling to fight through the physicality of playoff series and its been on display every single game thus far. That has nothing to do with who is on the ice with him. Full stop.

He has a chance to change that narrative starting tonight, but it's a well earned reputation that he is fully responsible for having. When you combine it with his incessant whining to the referees every single time a stick comes near him, his rep takes an even bigger hit.

When you are the highest paid guy on the team, its part of the territory to shoulder the blame when you aren't playing well and the team is losing.

I fully expect more of the same tonight because what i watched these last 3 times they played, leads me to believe that both top guys have serious issues for different reasons that simply cant be changed just because. In his last 8 playoff games he has 0 goals and 3 assists, has been a detriment defensively, and turned the puck over literally dozens of times. Its just not good enough and again, cannot be blamed on others. Thats a complete cop-out.

I so hope i am dead wrong on that and he comes out and puts up a 4 point night and everything changes and he starts to run with it. I just dont see it happening unfortunately.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by nik-

I've long felt that we can't win with Gaudreau as the main man but that's not a Gaudreau problem, it's a team construction problem. Some of it is just #### luck, we never drafted high enough to get the truly elite center a team needs.

Gaudreau is a top tier sidekick on a winning team. He's a small skilled winger and shouldn't be the one carrying that load.

Yep. I think Gaudreau is good enough to be part of a cup winning team but he needs an elite center as well as good supporting cast. Monahan is a good player but IMO he's not elite and would ideally be a 2nd line center on a cup contending team.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Not just the thread but in general...they are being called out on all media for a few bad games after the 2nd best season in franchise history.

The five o'clock news was questioning their heart FFS, JG is a whiner ect.

Personally I would sign elsewhere...I just can't see Hall putting himself through that again.

His team ####ing sucked this season and he is a cult hero for winning the draft lottery again. I promise you the local 5 O'clock news in NJ has never implied that Taylor Hall doesn't have what it takes to lead a team. "Taylor who?"

I think you are misunderstanding what drives most elite athletes. For the most part, they're not interested in slinking away into obscurity.

[Strange Brew]

Gaudreau hasn't played well at ball this series. Understatement.

And now of course you see some of his usual critics emerge, and no doubt we will hear more shots at his diet and fitness. Because I guess some people are privy to such things.

But if it turns out Gaudreau isn't good enough to drive a championship calibre team, well most players aren't. He is incredible value for a 4th round pick and at his salary. Some of the criticism should perhaps be directed at those responsible for construction of a team where he is the best player.

That doesn't absolve him of blame. He needs to play a lot closer to his capabilities to say the least.

I'm hopeful we see a good game from him. If he could just get his confidence clicking its not too late for this to be a series still.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Where he was drafted and his contract is irrelevant to his play this series.
We know what he can do. We've seen it.
Your best players have to be your best. If he's not up to that - then indeed we don't have the right roster. And he's probably one of the best chips to use to get someone you can win with. There's no point having a best player who can't produce in the playoffs because things get harder.

[Iggy Snipe]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Where he was drafted and his contract is irrelevant to his play this series.
We know what he can do. We've seen it.
Your best players have to be your best. If he's not up to that - then indeed we don't have the right roster. And he's probably one of the best chips to use to get someone you can win with. There's no point having a best player who can't produce in the playoffs because things get harder.

I could not agree more. Johnny and Mony have been invisible in this series. Colorado must love when they are on the ice.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Where he was drafted and his contract is irrelevant to his play this series.
We know what he can do. We've seen it.
Your best players have to be your best. If he's not up to that - then indeed we don't have the right roster. And he's probably one of the best chips to use to get someone you can win with. There's no point having a best player who can't produce in the playoffs because things get harder.

This thread is about the team’s future not about this series so his contract is extremely relevant.

If you think the roster needs to be upgraded talk about what is missing.

Of course he is playing horribly. But if you believe this regular season has any meaning at all, trading Gaudreau leaves a huge hole. Getting back a proven playoff performer, on an equally good contract, without sacrificing offense.... that’s a tall order.

And really talking about trading guys in the middle of a playoff series is really bad form.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

This thread is about the team’s future not about this series so his contract is extremely relevant.

If you think the roster needs to be upgraded talk about what is missing.

Of course he is playing horribly. But if you believe this regular season has any meaning at all, trading Gaudreau leaves a huge hole. Getting back a proven playoff performer, on an equally good contract, without sacrificing offense.... that’s a tall order.

And really talking about trading guys in the middle of a playoff series is really bad form.

Bad form how? Why does it matter at all?

[blender]

What strikes me as strange is how so many seem to want to get rid of certain players. I don't get it. The Flames are a very good team. Management needs to augment what they have, not trade away their best players. During the Tavares sweepstakes I suggested the Flames attempt to sign him for McDavid money. Probably wouldn't have happened no matter what, but my point was that that is the type of player you look to ADD to the roster.

It is unfortunate that our top players aren't performing well in this series and it is a real problem, but they are still good players. I have faith that regardless of the outcome this season Treliving will make some astute adjustments and we will see a better roster next season.
For now, let's go get a win tonight and go from there.

[blender]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Bad form how? Why does it matter at all?

I feel you can talk about whatever you want as it is after all a forum, but I can see SB's point. Support your team unconditionally at this moment and save the trade talk for after the season is over.

[chedder]

If the plan is to keep Johnny we only have him for 3 more years as guaranteed he won't be here when he's a ufa. So realistically 2 more attempts at the cup as we'll likely trade him before '21/22 deadline. Better find that elusive #1 centre soon.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by LTH

Why does everyone automatically go to Johnny and give him all the blame?
Hes not a #1 overall pick, hes not McKinnon, or ,McDavid, or Matthew's.
It's easy to stop the first line.
..focus on JG because the other two ain't doin Jack ####.

Bennett has more ability to create and drive the play than Mony. Mony can finish.

Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk

I don't think people automatically go to blame Johnny. But he is our best offensive player and he does have that in common with McDavid, Matthew and MacKinnon who are the best offensive players on their teams. People expect great things out of Gaudreau because he's a great player. There's nothing wrong with those expectations.

The harsh reality is he's been bad the past few games, surely even the biggest Gaudreau fans can see that? In the most important part of the season his game has been worse. He's bailing out on pucks.

He does still have time to turn it around. People are just very discouraged by what they've seen out of Johnny in the most important games of the entire season so far. His game has regressed instead of elevating. You need the opposite out of some or most of your core players.

Again he still has time to turn it around. But tonight's game is huge for the Flames and huge for Gaudreau as well. If the Flames bow out tonight and Gaudreau wasn't anywhere near the top of his game there's naturally going to be a lot of questions asked about it. And we will quickly turn to those question if it happens. But if he turns it around, looks like a star and we come back to win the series or even make it close all will be forgiven. That is the harsh nature of sports and entertainment.

It's a huge game for the Flames young core facing elimination for the first time this year. It's going to be very interesting and very telling who steps up and shows another level of determination, effort, grit, speed and tenacity. Make no mistake the Flames management, coaches, scouts and fans will be judging players based on how they perform in this, the most crucial game of the season so far. That's the nature of sports. You are judged on performance. Johnny's grade for the series is incomplete but so far he's been found lacking. I haven't seen enough determination, grit and tenacity out of Gaudreau on some shifts. We're all hoping he steps it up tonight and we can put these questions to bed.

[blender]

If last off season's trade has taught us anything it's that it is useless to try and predict what a roster will look like next season, forget about 2 or 3 seasons out.

[Dr. Doom]

This thread is a hot mess lol
We just need him and Moneyhands to wake up as they did pre all Star break.... It's not like it was a fluke