There's one country in the region who's leaders are tenuously holding on to power, desperate enough to instigate an attack like this, are under sanctions for their oil, and was already linked to an earlier attack a couple months ago.
HINT: Neither Israel or the USA, some people's favorite whipping boys, fit that description.
Only one country you mentioned gets nothing from either the attack or a war, Iram, of the other three they all get political or financial gains, oil prices spiking aids Saudi, deep in debt and spending like a fish to try and win in the Yeman, both Trump and Netanyahu could see political gains from a war, all three have previous history of blowing stuff up nefariously
Its a limpet mine on a timer, it isn't dropped its swam under the boat by a couple of divers, any fishing boat could be used as the jump off point, think James Bond and Thunderball
Yes thanks I understand that.
If you're even looking at naval mines or Limpet mines, Saudi Arabia doesn't show much capability in that area, meanwhile Iran has and has used them in the past.
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If you're even looking at naval mines or Limpet mines, Saudi Arabia doesn't show much capability in that area, meanwhile Iran has and has used them in the past.
What does Iran gain by starting a war it will be devastated by?
I doubt it will be a war that they will be devastated by. the American's will launch some missiles probably at the revolutionary guard head quarter probably their barracks, but those crazies are good with martrydom.
Iran gets the international community to show some sympathy, and it gives them justification to restart their nuclear program.
The American's aren't going to invade Iran, they're not going to level it even though they have the capability to do so.
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they need no justification as the US has torn up the deal, they already have sympathy and the US will invade, boots on the ground full Iraq pt 2 Die Harder
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Only one country you mentioned gets nothing from either the attack or a war, Iram, of the other three they all get political or financial gains, oil prices spiking aids Saudi, deep in debt and spending like a fish to try and win in the Yeman, both Trump and Netanyahu could see political gains from a war, all three have previous history of blowing stuff up nefariously
Add to this that the National Security Advisor is a known Neo-Con that has been a massive advocate for regime change in Iran since the HWB days.
These are the same tactics that Bolton, Pompeo and Elliott Abrams (Trump's Special Representative to Venezuela) have used in the past in Guatamala, Nicaragua, Venezuela, Iran-Contra, El Salvador, etc.
I have a hard time believe that the US (or Saudi Arabia) weren't behind this in order to start regime change in the area. Just another massive false flag in a sting of many with will inevitably end up in a US-Iran war.
I don't see a boots on the ground invasion, it makes no sense to do it.
Iran has a poor military but its numerous, but they'd see every single nut job terror group descend on the American Satan. It'd be a meat grinder and even as stupid as Trump is, he knows it.
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I don't see a boots on the ground invasion, it makes no sense to do it.
Iran has a poor military but its numerous, but they'd see every single nut job terror group descend on the American Satan. It'd be a meat grinder and even as stupid as Trump is, he knows it.
The question here isn't Trump, though. Its Bolton, Abrams and Pompeo.
Only one country you mentioned gets nothing from either the attack or a war, Iram, of the other three they all get political or financial gains, oil prices spiking aids Saudi, deep in debt and spending like a fish to try and win in the Yeman, both Trump and Netanyahu could see political gains from a war, all three have previous history of blowing stuff up nefariously
Iran is trying to tone set and say that if we aren't allowed to ship oil then we'll try to increase the risk profile of countries that still can, namely the Saudi's. It's not a coincidence that these tankers were carrying saudi crude according to reports that I've seen. Add that to the previous attack. Add that to the saudi pipeline that was attacked a few months ago that's notable because it ships product to the red sea away from Hormuz and the Gulf of Oman aka Iran's sphere of naval influence. They're attacking Saudi crude by water where they can and by air where they can't.
Despite some hawkish language from some higher ups in the Trump administration they have some clear goals, two of them being to avoid involving the US in foreign wars and to keep a lid on oil prices. Trump is not ambiguous about that he's talked about it a lot. This attack goes against both of those, in addition to being a cause of embarrassment if it ever leaked out that the US attacked their ally Saudi Arabia, which it would. Netanyhu is trying to hold on to power yes, but I don't think in the midst of all of that he would hatch a scheme to attack another Arab state that also doesn't like Israel. It makes no sense, your assertions seem more motivated by an animus towards Israel and the USA than the facts on the ground and the most likely culprit by far being Iran. You're almost into Bush Did 9/11 territory here.
Just seems off to me. Iran’s navy isn’t super disciplined so it’s possible it’s just some mavericks doing their own thing, but there’s absolutely no reason for Iran to order their navy to do this. They don’t have anything to gain from a war.
Just seems off to me. Iran’s navy isn’t super disciplined so it’s possible it’s just some mavericks doing their own thing, but there’s absolutely no reason for Iran to order their navy to do this. They don’t have anything to gain from a war.
Its the opposite, their navy isn't technologically advanced. But they enforce brutal discipline and individual initiative is absolutely not encourage. They follow order to the letter.
If any Iranian is doing it, its their revolutionary guard navy and its at the direct order of their leadership.
I'm not saying it is, but I don't really buy into a false flag operation by Israel or the US. Most of the time it is what it presents to be.
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I wouldn't trust anything coming out from Bolton (WMD Iraq) and the rest of the B team (lol).
All of the tension right now is coming from that group as Iran WAS in compliance with the internationally negotiated JCPOA. It's just as Obama said when JCPOA was looking to be ratified by congress. Either diplomacy or war. Who has wanted war with Iran? Look no further than the B team.
Quote:
President Obama took on critics of the nuclear deal between Iran and six world powers in an aggressive speech on Wednesday, saying they were the same people who created the “drumbeat of war” and played on public fears to push the United States into the Iraq war more than a decade ago.
“Let’s not mince words: The choice we face is ultimately between diplomacy and some form of war — maybe not tomorrow, maybe not three months from now, but soon,” Mr. Obama told about 200 people in a speech at American University. “How can we in good conscience justify war before we’ve tested a diplomatic agreement that achieves our objectives?”
Quote:
Mr. Obama also used the address to indirectly confront pro-Israel groups, led by the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, or Aipac, which are sending hundreds of activists to lobby lawmakers to reject the deal and are planning to run more than $25 million in television advertising to rally opposition to it. The struggle is playing out this month as members of Congress leave Washington to face voters in their home states and districts.
“If the rhetoric in these ads and the accompanying commentary sounds familiar, it should,” Mr. Obama said. “Many of the same people who argued for the war in Iraq are now making the case against the Iran nuclear deal.”
All this has been in the works. Obama was an interruption but now that the neo conservative hawks (Bolton, Pompeo, Pence) are back in power the plan is back in effect.
The question here isn't Trump, though. Its Bolton, Abrams and Pompeo.
In an actual shooting war there are no investigations or questions at all about the President, the tradition is to put them on hold until the national crisis is over, Trump would love that and why would he care about casualties on either side.
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Its the opposite, their navy isn't technologically advanced. But they enforce brutal discipline and individual initiative is absolutely not encourage. They follow order to the letter.
If any Iranian is doing it, its their revolutionary guard navy and its at the direct order of their leadership.
I'm not saying it is, but I don't really buy into a false flag operation by Israel or the US. Most of the time it is what it presents to be.
False flag by Saudi Arabia is far more likely... It'd be stupidly ridiculous as others have pointed out for Iran to do this while the Japanese PM is visiting.
The US would certainly have motivation though, Pompeo and Bolton have been setting up this powder keg for months on the false pretense that Iran has failed to comply with nuclear sanctions when literally everyone except the Trump administration, including US spy agencies, have been saying the Iranians have complied. I would not put it above Kushner and co to have nudged the Saudis into action. There are certainly no shortage of radical Saudi Islamist elements to recruit for the job.
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False flag by Saudi Arabia is far more likely... It'd be stupidly ridiculous as others have pointed out for Iran to do this while the Japanese PM is visiting.
The US would certainly have motivation though, Pompeo and Bolton have been setting up this powder keg for months on the false pretense that Iran has failed to comply with nuclear sanctions when literally everyone except the Trump administration, including US spy agencies, have been saying the Iranians have complied. I would not put it above Kushner and co to have nudged the Saudis into action. There are certainly no shortage of radical Saudi Islamist elements to recruit for the job.
Quote:
On a December 2010 episode of Fox News’ Freedom Watch, Bolton and the show’s host Andrew Napolitano were debating about recent WikiLeaks publications, and naturally the subject of government secrecy came up.
“Now I want to make the case for secrecy in government when it comes to the conduct of national security affairs, and possibly for deception where that’s appropriate,” Bolton said. “You know Winston Churchill said during World War Two that in wartime truth is so important it should be surrounded by a bodyguard of lies.”
“Do you really believe that?” asked an incredulous Napolitano.
“Absolutely,” Bolton replied.
“You would lie in order to preserve the truth?”
“If I had to say something I knew was false to protect American national security, I would do it,” Bolton answered.
Quote:
“I frankly think that crisis initiation is really tough, and it’s very hard for me to see how the United States president can get us to war with Iran,” Clawson began.
Quote:
“Which leads me to conclude that if in fact compromise is not coming, that the traditional way that America gets to war is what would be best for US interests,” Clawson added. “Some people might think that Mr. Roosevelt wanted to get us into the war… you may recall we had to wait for Pearl Harbor. Some people might think that Mr. Wilson wanted to get us into World War One; you may recall we had to wait for the Lusitania episode. Some people might think that Mr. Johnson wanted to get us into Vietnam; you may recall we had to wait for the Gulf of Tonkin episode. We didn’t go to war with Spain until the USS Maine exploded. And may I point out that Mr. Lincoln did not feel that he could call out the Army until Fort Sumter was attacked, which is why he ordered the commander at Fort Sumter to do exactly that thing which the South Carolinians said would cause an attack.”
“So if, in fact, the Iranians aren’t going to compromise, it would be best if somebody else started the war,” Clawson continued. “One can combine other means of pressure with sanctions. I mentioned that explosion on August 17th. We could step up the pressure. I mean look people, Iranian submarines periodically go down. Some day, one of them might not come up. Who would know why? [Smattering of sociopathic laughter from the crowd.] We can do a variety of things, if we wish to increase the pressure (I’m not advocating that) but I’m just suggesting that this is not an either/or proposition — just sanctions have to succeed or other things. We are in the game of using covert means against the Iranians. We could get nastier at that.”
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There's one country in the region who's leaders are tenuously holding on to power, desperate enough to instigate an attack like this, are under sanctions for their oil, and was already linked to an earlier attack a couple months ago.
HINT: Neither Israel or the USA, some people's favorite whipping boys, fit that description.
I bet u said the same thing about the Gulf on Tonkin. I bet u believed Iraq had Wmd's too.
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I think the least likely of the possible suspects to have done this is Iran. The warning lights have been going off for two months now that things were going to get bad over there. The Orange Goblin in Chief even tweeted some kind of childish threat directed at Iran about a month ago.
How can any of you actually believe Iran would do this? Yikes!
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i think the least likely of the possible suspects to have done this is iran. The warning lights have been going off for two months now that things were going to get bad over there. The orange goblin in chief even tweeted some kind of childish threat directed at iran about a month ago.
How can any of you actually believe iran would do this? Yikes!
