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Old 06-04-2009, 12:32 PM   #1
mykalberta
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Example.

Hockey has the NHL as the professional league in NA and the Stanley cup is the tournament for that - I assume that is the equivilent to say the EPL
leage championship

Hockey has world cup - I assume that is similar to the Soccer world cup

Hockey has the Olympics.

I am confused for most of Soccer's tournaments.

The EPL doesnt have a tournament correct? The team with most points at the end wins correct?

There is the UEFA Champions League. How are teams for this considered. Barca just won it last week - I assume Champions league means the champions from diff countrys play?

There is another one that Liverpool is in - not sure of its name. There might be more.

Just looking for a simpletons version of the different major tournaments, and how teams are selected, and what kind of tournament is it.

Also, vis a vi player contracts. Are they signed similar to hockey, set term and amount per game? Also when a player is transfer sold, does he get a portion of that amount?
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Old 06-04-2009, 12:51 PM   #2
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I'll try to explain some of it as best as I can.

The domestic leagues are comprised of a number of divisions, teams that finish at the top move up to the next division, teams at the bottom move down. The numbers vary from league to league. While there are no playoffs, in most leagues there is a cup competition that includes teams from a number of the divisions. The cup runs throughout the season and is usually a one game knockout formula. There are some exceptions to that, but that'd overcomplicate things.

The Champions League is comprised of the top teams from the UEFA member countries, which is basically Europe plus a few other nations that aren't actually in Europe. Each nation gets to send a set number of teams based on formulas. There are automatic spots and qualification spots, which basically decides what stage of the tournament you start at. The tournament is a mixture of 4 teams groups and 2 game total goal knockout legs.

There's also the UEFA Cup (although that name changes occasionally), which is made up of the next tier of teams in their various leagues.

As for contracts, it's pretty similar to hockey. I'm not sure about guaranteed v. non-guaranteed etc. but the general set-up is the same. IIRC transfer fees go to the club only, the player doesn't get a cut.
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Old 06-04-2009, 01:22 PM   #3
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Yes there are several leagues that have a season such as the NHL however the majority of them decide the winner based on the result of the season, and do not have playoffs.

The hockey world cup I guess is similar to the Soccer world cup by name. However in soccer the world cup is the biggest tournament and the Olympics aren't as important, the opposite of hockey I would say.

The EPL doesn't have a tournament however there are several tournaments that EPL teams compete in such as the Champions league, Euro cup, and FA cup. The difference is all these tournaments take place at the same time as the regular season so often times teams will play a regular season game, and champions league game, followed by a regular season game.

Champions League is for the top teams in typically the european leagues. The english premier league gets to send the top four teams in the standinds to this tournament. It starts with a group stage, followed by several rounds of "best of two games" and finishes with the final which is winner take all.

Euro cup is similar to Champions League but for teams who aren't quite as good as the champions league teams.

The FA cup is for the FA (football association) teams only. The start of the tournament is quite interesting as you will see huge mismatches where the very top Premier League teams will face off against teams several divisions below team. (NHL team vs. ECHL team, if you will).

Typically contracts in soccer are discussed per week. In hockey we understand contracts as Jarome Iginla makes 7 million per year. In soccer they say player X has a contract of XXX per week. Soccer contracts are set over certain years but are often re-negotiated as players become better.

Typically players are transferred from team to team for a fee instead of making trades. There is no draft in soccer so a club gains the rights for players when they play for them at a young age and they will sell that player to better clubs.
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Old 06-04-2009, 01:25 PM   #4
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valo403 has nailed it. Just to add:

The English league as an example.

The Premiership is the top league. The winner is the team with the most points, correct. The next three teams also qualify for the Uefa Champions League. #2 automatically, the next 2 via a one game playoff. The bottom three teams are relegated to the next lower tier, The Championship.

The Championship. Top 2 team automatically promoted to the Premiership. 3 through 6 enter a playoff format. 3 vs 6, 4 vs 5. Winners meet in a one game winner takes all for promotion. Bottom 3 relegated to Division 1.

Division 1, same format. Relegated to Div. 2.

Div 2 is the lowest pro league in England. The bottom team enters the Non-League Conference division. The pyramid continues from there down the multiple lower leagues.

In England there are also two knockout cups.

The Football Association Cup or FA Cup as it's famously known. It's the oldest football competition in the world, first held in 1871.

Then there is the League Cup which is currently called the Carling Cup. This has been known as the Littlewoods Cup, Milk Cup, Coca-Cola Cup among others over the years. Only the 92 professional teams can enter the tournament unlike the 762 teams that entered the FA Cup last season.

Internationally speaking.

The World Cup is the main international tournament, watched by more people than the Olympics. 715 million people watched the 2006 Final. Currently 32 teams qualify for the Final tournament after 2 to 3 years of qualifying.

Then there are regional tournaments like the European Championship and the Copa America, for South American teams, started in 1916 and is the oldest international tourny in the world.
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Old 06-04-2009, 01:36 PM   #5
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For someone growing up in Europe playing "football" what would thier "dream" order be.

Example in North Amercia, if you play Football you dream about Superbowl. Or hockey is Stanley Cup and maybe Olympics.

Are alot of the tournaments financial based? World cup is obviously the top, but would players have dreamed growing up playing in the FA/UEFA cups?

When I see those alot of people I know are very invested in them, and to me they appear as if they are soccers version of College football bowl games. Sure its bragging rights but if you arent the top dog, then what does this game really mean.

I find that to be the most difficult thing about watching soccer over hear (other than Setanta and their crazy monthy fees).
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Old 06-04-2009, 02:30 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by mykalberta View Post
For someone growing up in Europe playing "football" what would thier "dream" order be.

Example in North Amercia, if you play Football you dream about Superbowl. Or hockey is Stanley Cup and maybe Olympics.

Are alot of the tournaments financial based? World cup is obviously the top, but would players have dreamed growing up playing in the FA/UEFA cups?

When I see those alot of people I know are very invested in them, and to me they appear as if they are soccers version of College football bowl games. Sure its bragging rights but if you arent the top dog, then what does this game really mean.

I find that to be the most difficult thing about watching soccer over hear (other than Setanta and their crazy monthy fees).
I'd guess that the dream for most young players would be to play in the World Cup and the Champions League. Making it to the World Cup obviously has a lot to do with where you're from, Owen Hargreaves is a perfect example of someone who had little chance of playing in a World Cup without finding a way to play for a nation other than that of his birth.

The Champions League on the other hand has much more to do with your ability. In order to play in the latter stages of the competition (ie. the ones that you'd see on TV over here) you'd most likely have to be on one of Europe's major clubs, and in order to play on one of those clubs you'd have to be an elite player.

For English players playing in an FA Cup Final is quite a big deal. The unique thing about this tournament is that guys who work 9-5 and are more or less fans can wind up playing against some of the best players in the game. It's like a beer league team playing the Flames, although a good beer league team.

You didn't ask, but I'd have to say that any reasonable young player would dream of playing for only one team:

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Old 06-04-2009, 08:54 PM   #7
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Great explanations everyone.

I would only add this:

As you know teams that do well get promoted and teams they do poorly get relegated. Your immediate goal is to always win the league and gain promotion. There's also always a concurrent cup/knockout competition. The better you do, the more people see you, the more money the team makes and the more good players they can buy. Soccer is the ultimate free market sport.

Say you are a teenager (Around 16) playing for a high school team in Lethbridge.

Your goal would be to play for Lethbridge FC at a semi-professional level at like division 10 and hope some eyeballs see you and make a few dollars.

If a scout likes you then maybe a team like Red Deer FC will buy you and you end up in division 5.

Finally you're becoming a young star.. scouts are noticing you. Perhaps you get a spot on a Canadian Under-20 team etc etc...

Then the big break.. Calgary FC knocks on your door and they buy you. You're now in the Premiership.

And from there Calgary FC might qualify for other tournaments like UEfA Cup, Champions League etc etc.. whatever system is in place. All designed to make more money for you and your team. It's an extremely hirearchal system.

It's your job to play for your paid club. Playing for your country is extra.
However playing well in big tournaments can lead to a bigger contract. Again it's all about eyeballs seeing you play.
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Old 06-04-2009, 10:36 PM   #8
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Great explanations everyone.

I would only add this:

As you know teams that do well get promoted and teams they do poorly get relegated. Your immediate goal is to always win the league and gain promotion. There's also always a concurrent cup/knockout competition. The better you do, the more people see you, the more money the team makes and the more good players they can buy. Soccer is the ultimate free market sport.

Say you are a teenager (Around 16) playing for a high school team in Lethbridge.

Your goal would be to play for Lethbridge FC at a semi-professional level at like division 10 and hope some eyeballs see you and make a few dollars.

If a scout likes you then maybe a team like Red Deer FC will buy you and you end up in division 5.

Finally you're becoming a young star.. scouts are noticing you. Perhaps you get a spot on a Canadian Under-20 team etc etc...

Then the big break.. Calgary FC knocks on your door and they buy you. You're now in the Premiership.

And from there Calgary FC might qualify for other tournaments like UEfA Cup, Champions League etc etc.. whatever system is in place. All designed to make more money for you and your team. It's an extremely hirearchal system.

It's your job to play for your paid club. Playing for your country is extra.
However playing well in big tournaments can lead to a bigger contract. Again it's all about eyeballs seeing you play.
True, the only thing I'd add is that pretty much every player that turns into a first team regular on an elite club is either in the academy at a top club or already playing for the first team at a top club by the time they are 16. You don't see many players make the climb from a lower level side to a top team. Top players are typically identified by the time they are 14, and many far sooner than that.
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Old 06-07-2009, 02:55 PM   #9
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Great explanations everyone.

I would only add this:

As you know teams that do well get promoted and teams they do poorly get relegated. Your immediate goal is to always win the league and gain promotion. There's also always a concurrent cup/knockout competition. The better you do, the more people see you, the more money the team makes and the more good players they can buy. Soccer is the ultimate free market sport.

Say you are a teenager (Around 16) playing for a high school team in Lethbridge.

Your goal would be to play for Lethbridge FC at a semi-professional level at like division 10 and hope some eyeballs see you and make a few dollars.

If a scout likes you then maybe a team like Red Deer FC will buy you and you end up in division 5.

Finally you're becoming a young star.. scouts are noticing you. Perhaps you get a spot on a Canadian Under-20 team etc etc...

Then the big break.. Calgary FC knocks on your door and they buy you. You're now in the Premiership.

And from there Calgary FC might qualify for other tournaments like UEfA Cup, Champions League etc etc.. whatever system is in place. All designed to make more money for you and your team. It's an extremely hirearchal system.

It's your job to play for your paid club. Playing for your country is extra.
However playing well in big tournaments can lead to a bigger contract. Again it's all about eyeballs seeing you play.

I have a friend that was scouted by Aston Villa to be a goalkeepr he was one of the best at his age of 14 but he failed to grow so nothing happened after that.

Take an example this year Macheda property of Man United is only "17". Use to be part of Lazio's youth system in Italy.

"formerly a member of Lazio's youth system, Macheda signed professional forms on 22 August 2008. A powerful forward with a natural eye for goal, he was born in Rome and is regarded in Italy as one of the most promising prospects of his generation.

Having relocated to England to further his career, Macheda has quickly moved up the ranks at United. He started out in Paul McGuinness' Under-18s side, but has become a regular in Ole Gunnar Solskjaer's Reserves.

He began the 2008/09 campaign with a fine goalscoring run in the youth team and quickly translated that to Reserve team football."


I am not sure if it is true but the reason why I think he left Italy is because in England you can sign professional forms prior to the age of 19, I think Italy is Age of 19. Can anyone verify this?

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Old 06-07-2009, 03:27 PM   #10
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You didn't ask, but I'd have to say that any reasonable young player would dream of playing for only one team:

(Garbage trimmed to protect readers' eyes, and not waste bandwidth on that :P)

That's quite inaccurate. I believe Jagger's avatar would be a more accurate destination for a team every player dreams of playing for. ...but really, there are a ton. In England, it's typically one of those 2 as they both have a ridiculous amount of awards in their history. Arsenal and Chelsea are in the same level, but with less history, although Arsenal has been in the top level of English football for longer than anyone else. Other teams around the world with a large amount of prestige include Barcelona & Real Madrid in Spain, AC Milan and Inter Milan in Italy, Bayern Munich in Germany...these are teams that almost every year qualify for the champions league (although AC Milan didn't participate in it this year, I believe they are qualified for next year).

Also for example, oftentimes, players will want to play for their own countries, because a German player for example grew up watching Bayern Munich, and while winning the English Premier League would be a great prestige, it's the German league trophy that he watched his heroes hoist, and would like to do the same. If you wanted a club trophy like the Stanley Cup, then the UEFA Champions league is probably the one you're looking at. While the club world cup takes the winners of all the champions leagues, it doesn't tend to get talked about as much, since the best players usually end up in Europe quickly due to the money they have.
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Old 06-08-2009, 02:15 PM   #11
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That's quite inaccurate. I believe Jagger's avatar would be a more accurate destination for a team every player dreams of playing for. ...but really, there are a ton. In England, it's typically one of those 2 as they both have a ridiculous amount of awards in their history. Arsenal and Chelsea are in the same level, but with less history, although Arsenal has been in the top level of English football for longer than anyone else. Other teams around the world with a large amount of prestige include Barcelona & Real Madrid in Spain, AC Milan and Inter Milan in Italy, Bayern Munich in Germany...these are teams that almost every year qualify for the champions league (although AC Milan didn't participate in it this year, I believe they are qualified for next year).

Also for example, oftentimes, players will want to play for their own countries, because a German player for example grew up watching Bayern Munich, and while winning the English Premier League would be a great prestige, it's the German league trophy that he watched his heroes hoist, and would like to do the same. If you wanted a club trophy like the Stanley Cup, then the UEFA Champions league is probably the one you're looking at. While the club world cup takes the winners of all the champions leagues, it doesn't tend to get talked about as much, since the best players usually end up in Europe quickly due to the money they have.
In addition to the players personal desires most players begin their professional careers in their home countries due to the ability of home clubs to sign them to youth contracts and work them through the academy system. The situation spoken of above with Macheda is pretty rare, you don't see many young guys (ie. under 18) leave one European nation to sign with a club in another. It's more common with young players from outside of Europe as the teams in South America, Asia, Africa etc. don't usually have the ability to keep elite talent at home for very long.

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Old 06-10-2009, 04:32 PM   #12
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That's quite inaccurate. I believe Jagger's avatar would be a more accurate destination for a team every player dreams of playing for. ...but really, there are a ton. In England, it's typically one of those 2 as they both have a ridiculous amount of awards in their history. Arsenal and Chelsea are in the same level, but with less history, although Arsenal has been in the top level of English football for longer than anyone else. Other teams around the world with a large amount of prestige include Barcelona & Real Madrid in Spain, AC Milan and Inter Milan in Italy, Bayern Munich in Germany...these are teams that almost every year qualify for the champions league (although AC Milan didn't participate in it this year, I believe they are qualified for next year).

Also for example, oftentimes, players will want to play for their own countries, because a German player for example grew up watching Bayern Munich, and while winning the English Premier League would be a great prestige, it's the German league trophy that he watched his heroes hoist, and would like to do the same. If you wanted a club trophy like the Stanley Cup, then the UEFA Champions league is probably the one you're looking at. While the club world cup takes the winners of all the champions leagues, it doesn't tend to get talked about as much, since the best players usually end up in Europe quickly due to the money they have.
Not true. In Italy, the teams of choice are AC Milan and Juventus, then a huge gap, and then probably Roma, Lazio and Fiorentina. Italians by and large do not dream of playing for Inter Milan, largely because Internazionale is simply not meant for them. Inter was split from AC early in the 1900s to accomodate foreign players that weren't as welcome. If anything, I would say Inter Milan is the team of choice of players born in Argentina, moreso than River Plate or Boca Juniors.

However, I would contend there are roughly ten teams that any current professional footballer would kill to be on: Manchester United, Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, Real Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern Munich, Juventus, AC Milan and Inter Milan.

Last edited by Thunderball; 06-10-2009 at 04:36 PM.
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Old 06-10-2009, 04:46 PM   #13
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I am not sure if it is true but the reason why I think he left Italy is because in England you can sign professional forms prior to the age of 19, I think Italy is Age of 19. Can anyone verify this?
I believe its 18, but I think in England they can be signed at 17. There's an unspoken rule between the G-14 member clubs not to poach each other's youth, but that hasn't stopped the big teams from poaching midtable clubs, causing Palermo's president Zamparini to declare English clubs "a bunch of pirates."
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