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Old 03-04-2022, 05:37 AM   #1
Snuffleupagus
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Default Coronavirus All Purpose Thread: moving on?

Due to vaccines, antibodies from prior infections and a weaker strain it's looking more and more like Covid is moving to the endemic stage.

Worldwide known cases as of 3/4/22

Total cases - 381,566,317
Recovered - 375,652,628 (98%)
Deaths - 6,003,689 (2%)

Worldwide Active cases as of 3/4/22

Total cases - 61,035,672
Mild Condition - 60,962,677 (99.9%)
Serious or Critical - 72,995 (0.1%)

Personally, now 3X vaxxed, I caught it before my booster and it was nothing which is inline with the 99.9% of mild conditions.

Is the world is done with this nightmare?
Booster every year instead of restrictions?

Thoughts?
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Old 03-04-2022, 06:25 AM   #2
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I think there is one last test next winter.

The South African Omicron experience hopefully is as bad as we get going forward with a highly previously infected population keeping people out of hospitals.

The big question is will the vaccine males be able to make effective boosters to a mutating virus and will people take them? Hopefully for those who don’t get boosters the waning infection results in people being continuously exposed throughout the year holding an rT of 1 rather than us getting a critical point of lack of heard immunity and the cases spiking.

So hopefully it’s now “just the flu” on a go forward basis. We will find out next November
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Old 03-04-2022, 06:38 AM   #3
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I would love to be done with it, but I don't think that's the case. We will continue to have these peaks and valleys for many years to come, and some of the peaks could end up being quite serious. Because of the fact that covid is most contagious before you have symptoms, it's certainly possible to get a very serious, very contagious mutation making its way through the world.

That being said though, I don't think we can or should continue to live in a heightened state of awareness for years to come. Humans are social creatures and will seek that out, no matter what, so people will follow restrictions about gathering less and less. We need to allow people to enjoy the valleys and get a break in between outbreaks.

And if improved ventilation will help with covid, why the hell is this not the biggest priority behind vaccination??? Look at the effects that clean water has had on reducing water-borne diseases.
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Old 03-04-2022, 10:22 AM   #4
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I'll be shocked if we actually shift into a long-term endemic phase, but I'll be very pleasantly surprised if we do. I think a lot of the stability we're seeing right now is because of recent vaccinations, and people are definitely not going to keep getting vaccinated at the rates we've seen.

It'll really come down to how quickly protection against severe disease wanes and/or what new variants we see. If the vulnerable can consistently and repeatedly get vaccinated, that would go a long way to mitigating the impact. But if 60+ year olds and medically vulnerable people get complacent, we could certainly have issues again.

I'm also concerned about the long-term health impacts of people repeatedly being infected. I just read about a study that looked at ~150K people who tested positive for COVID and survived it, and compared them to ~5M people in the same time period who didn't have COVID and also compared them to ~5M people from medical records from 2017 (i.e. pre-COVID). The increase in cardiovascular disorders in the COVID positive group compared to the control groups is pretty startling; for every 100K people at the 12-month mark after an infection, the COVID positive group saw an additional:

-2,350 cases of major cardiovascular events (stroke, heart attack, cardiovascular related death)
-1,200 cases of heart failure
-400 strokes
-4,500 overall incidents of cardiovascular disorders

And those are additional cases over what you'd normally expect, not total. There are a few caveats; the sample was mostly older people, so those numbers aren't going to scale to the whole population, and there was a correlation between severity and the increased 12-month risk (so vaccines should mitigate that somewhat). But even in non-hospitalized cases, there was a marked increase (something like 30-40% higher) in the 12-month risk of cardiovascular disorders after infection.
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Old 03-04-2022, 02:39 PM   #5
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The City of Calgary is suspending their employee vaccination mandate starting next week.

https://www.calgary.ca/csps/cema/scr...-COVID-19.html
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Old 03-04-2022, 03:45 PM   #6
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AHS now doing after hours vaccine clinics in rural settings. What a waste of time and resources. Paying nurses and admin staff overtime.

Purely anectodal to the whole program but one small town around Calgary started last night. Guess how many shots given out...

Zero. Staff sat there for 5 or 6 hours at overtime rates doing nothing.
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Old 03-04-2022, 11:39 PM   #7
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Alberta’s first confirmed Covid case exactly 2 years ago now. Amazing how time can go by so fast while standing still.
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Old 03-05-2022, 01:41 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by calgarygeologist View Post
The City of Calgary is suspending their employee vaccination mandate starting next week.

https://www.calgary.ca/csps/cema/scr...-COVID-19.html
As they should. It should be about personal responsibility at this point. Especially do not want to fund unnecessary mandates as a taxpayer.
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Old 03-05-2022, 01:46 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by opendoor View Post
I'll be shocked if we actually shift into a long-term endemic phase, but I'll be very pleasantly surprised if we do. I think a lot of the stability we're seeing right now is because of recent vaccinations, and people are definitely not going to keep getting vaccinated at the rates we've seen.

It'll really come down to how quickly protection against severe disease wanes and/or what new variants we see. If the vulnerable can consistently and repeatedly get vaccinated, that would go a long way to mitigating the impact. But if 60+ year olds and medically vulnerable people get complacent, we could certainly have issues again.

I'm also concerned about the long-term health impacts of people repeatedly being infected. I just read about a study that looked at ~150K people who tested positive for COVID and survived it, and compared them to ~5M people in the same time period who didn't have COVID and also compared them to ~5M people from medical records from 2017 (i.e. pre-COVID). The increase in cardiovascular disorders in the COVID positive group compared to the control groups is pretty startling; for every 100K people at the 12-month mark after an infection, the COVID positive group saw an additional:

-2,350 cases of major cardiovascular events (stroke, heart attack, cardiovascular related death)
-1,200 cases of heart failure
-400 strokes
-4,500 overall incidents of cardiovascular disorders

And those are additional cases over what you'd normally expect, not total. There are a few caveats; the sample was mostly older people, so those numbers aren't going to scale to the whole population, and there was a correlation between severity and the increased 12-month risk (so vaccines should mitigate that somewhat). But even in non-hospitalized cases, there was a marked increase (something like 30-40% higher) in the 12-month risk of cardiovascular disorders after infection.

In general, there is clearly a risk for people that are older, or have other health conditions as we move forward. I'm always concerned when statistics like these are being presented; in this case you're being transparent that the sample is mostly older people. At the end of the day, we need to understand the risk to the majority of the population to adapt our public policies. And i would hope people at risk are taking vaccines or whatever else that is available. At this point though it has to be about people making their own decisions. The evidence is pretty clear regarding who is most at risk and if you're in that category and refuse to take a vaccine that will very likely reduce your risk I don't know what to say.

Don't force the vaccines on healthy people that likely don't need it and let them make the choice for themselves. Our healthcare system will not be impacted based on healthy people choosing not to be vaccinated, or boosted, etc.
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Old 03-05-2022, 07:41 AM   #10
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^
https://www.alberta.ca/stats/covid-1...ing-conditions


That's completely false. 25% of hospitalizations are people with no pre-existing conditions. I haven't seen a graph that crosses those with unvacinated, but you can be sure some percent of that 25% is unvacinated, and wouldn't be in the hospital if they had been vaccinated. So yes, it has an effect.
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Old 03-05-2022, 08:03 AM   #11
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In general, there is clearly a risk for people that are older, or have other health conditions as we move forward. I'm always concerned when statistics like these are being presented; in this case you're being transparent that the sample is mostly older people. At the end of the day, we need to understand the risk to the majority of the population to adapt our public policies. And i would hope people at risk are taking vaccines or whatever else that is available. At this point though it has to be about people making their own decisions. The evidence is pretty clear regarding who is most at risk and if you're in that category and refuse to take a vaccine that will very likely reduce your risk I don't know what to say.

Don't force the vaccines on healthy people that likely don't need it and let them make the choice for themselves. Our healthcare system will not be impacted based on healthy people choosing not to be vaccinated, or boosted, etc.
I really hate this framing of the discussion. Framing is as a choice that needs to be evaluated is a problem. It’s about following recommended medical advice.

Brush your teeth, go for regular check ups, get vaccinated.

It isn’t at risk people versus not at risk people.

It’s at risk people who can reduce their risk of death through vaccination
And
Less at risk people who can reduce their risk of death through vaccination

The group of people who there isn’t harm reduction for is near zero. Please stop framing it like there is a group that it isn’t in their best interest to be vaccinated.
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Old 03-05-2022, 11:44 AM   #12
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^
https://www.alberta.ca/stats/covid-1...ing-conditions


That's completely false. 25% of hospitalizations are people with no pre-existing conditions. I haven't seen a graph that crosses those with unvacinated, but you can be sure some percent of that 25% is unvacinated, and wouldn't be in the hospital if they had been vaccinated. So yes, it has an effect.
According to that link, obesity is not a preexisting condition.
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Old 03-05-2022, 11:48 AM   #13
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Alberta’s first confirmed Covid case exactly 2 years ago now. Amazing how time can go by so fast while standing still.
#### I remember that day so well, and the 2 weeks that followed.
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Old 03-05-2022, 11:49 AM   #14
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I really hate this framing of the discussion. Framing is as a choice that needs to be evaluated is a problem. It’s about following recommended medical advice.

Brush your teeth, go for regular check ups, get vaccinated.

It isn’t at risk people versus not at risk people.

It’s at risk people who can reduce their risk of death through vaccination
And
Less at risk people who can reduce their risk of death through vaccination

The group of people who there isn’t harm reduction for is near zero. Please stop framing it like there is a group that it isn’t in their best interest to be vaccinated.
My point is that at this stage the evidence is clear and it should be treated as a flu vaccine. That is, no one mandated to do it, but it is recommended to do so.
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Old 03-05-2022, 12:44 PM   #15
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My point is that at this stage the evidence is clear and it should be treated as a flu vaccine. That is, no one mandated to do it, but it is recommended to do so.
And if you choose not to get vaccinated, then catch COVID and get sick enough to go to need medical care, you shouldn't be allowed to go to the hospital to get it. Just stay in your home and hope you pull through.
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Old 03-05-2022, 12:48 PM   #16
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And if you choose not to get vaccinated, then catch COVID and get sick enough to go to need medical care, you shouldn't be allowed to go to the hospital to get it. Just stay in your home and hope you pull through.
And then when long covid hits, you are on your own. No social supports, no specialist visits...your choice, right?
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Old 03-05-2022, 12:50 PM   #17
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Speaking of moving on, the dumb c**nt brigade is rolling along 16th ave as I drove into the city. One guy kept honking and the poor elderly lady beside me at the light was awful confused.

Shout out to the large vans selling F**CK TRUDEAU t-shirts, that's pure capitalism and I can respect it.
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Old 03-05-2022, 01:54 PM   #18
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And if you choose not to get vaccinated, then catch COVID and get sick enough to go to need medical care, you shouldn't be allowed to go to the hospital to get it. Just stay in your home and hope you pull through.
How do we treat other patients with preventable illnesses? If we want to fundamentally change our single payer health care system then I would expect copays for all illnesses that are outside the norm.
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Old 03-05-2022, 01:57 PM   #19
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How do we treat other patients with preventable illnesses? If we want to fundamentally change our single payer health care system then I would expect copays for all illnesses that are outside the norm.
How do you define preventable? Genetics still plays a big role in all this
And what about preventable injuries? For instance if you break your ankle playing basketball. Is that preventable?

Hard to draw those lines.
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Old 03-05-2022, 02:07 PM   #20
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My point is that at this stage the evidence is clear and it should be treated as a flu vaccine. That is, no one mandated to do it, but it is recommended to do so.
I understand and agree with your point but hate the way you frame it.
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