Andrei Kuzmenko: Powerplay Tsar

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

I get all the points being made. I'm not saying to trade Kuzmenko tomorrow. But if you can trade him for a high pick and then sign a similar player in UFA, wouldn't you?

1) if the Flames signed a 40 goal scorer in free agency, I doubt you, or most fans, would be very happy about it

2) what 40 goal scorer are you possibly going to sign in free agency at the same price as extending Kuzmenko would likely cost?

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Oddly enough Kuzmenko and Huberdeau have pretty much the same amount of points since Kuzmenko arrived. Kuzmenko 24, Huberdeau 26.

It’s possible to praise Kuzmenko without having to slag other players who’ve produced pretty well lately.

Kuzmenko revitalizing Huberdeau is another reason to keep him.

[TheScorpion]

If they traded this guy for a pile of assets and signed another guy in UFA who they could trade for more assets, I'd be all for it.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

If they traded this guy for a pile of assets and signed another guy in UFA who they could trade for more assets, I'd be all for it.

But that second player doesn’t exist.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Kuzmenko revitalizing Huberdeau is another reason to keep him.

Maybe Huberdeau revitalized Kuzmenko, since Huberdeau’s January was great and Kuzmenko’s was not (he was in Vancouver).

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

But that second player doesn’t exist.

Sure it does. Guys like Gustav Nyquist are routinely available in unrestricted free agency. This year, that guy could be Jake DeBrusk.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Maybe Huberdeau revitalized Kuzmenko, since Huberdeau’s January was great and Kuzmenko’s was not (he was in Vancouver).

Kuzmenko seems to be thriving on his own merit, but it any event - I’ve been critical all year of the Flames for signing Huberdeau to this monstrous deal and then giving him nothing to work with.

Kuzmenko works with him.

Sharangovich works with him.

If they want that deal to not be the worst thing since Alexei Yashin, they shouldn’t jettison players that actually fit with the guy.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Sure it does. Guys like Gustav Nyquist are routinely available in unrestricted free agency. This year, that guy could be Jake DeBrusk.

Are those guys going to turn a bottom three powerplay into a top-10 one?

[Rhett44]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Are those guys going to turn a bottom three powerplay into a top-10 one?

We don't want to have a top 10 powerplay for the next few years. We need to be bad in order to get some high picks, and acquire some elite talent.

I think many of us would prefer not to finish 11th to 15th worst for the next few years.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Rhett44

We don't want to have a top 10 powerplay for the next few years. We need to be bad in order to get some high picks, and acquire some elite talent.

I think many of us would prefer not to finish 11th to 15th worst for the next few years.

I got the concept…

They’re going to trade Markstrom. They won’t replace him with a Markstrom level goalie.

Dustin Wolf isn’t a markstrom level goalie, even if we think he might be one day. He certainly isn’t standing behind a blue line with two legit NHLers.

They’re going to be bad no matter what.

They may as well be watchable.

(And no, I don’t expect this group to actually be a top-10 powerplay for a full year - but I do expect them to not be a monument to futility.)

[Sylvanfan]

The team has had a top 5 PP in the past month and is one of the 4 worst teams in that time frame. You can have a good PP and still be bad. In fact a surefire way to ensure you're bad is to give up 4 plus goals every night. Do that and even 160 powerplay goals clicking at 35% likely won't help you much.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

You can have a good PP and still be bad.

I've been listening to hockey fans talk for over 40 years. One thing I've learned is that as a group, fans wildly overrate the importance of special teams. They think a lot more power play goals get scored than is actually the case. They seem to think the sky is falling if their team fails to score a PP goal in any given game. Some of them even think a 30-second 5-on-3 should mean a guaranteed goal. These beliefs come straight from the emotions, and cannot be changed by any number of facts and statistics.

Curiously, a large number of fans also can't bear for their team's PP to have possession for more than five seconds without shooting, even though that would make the power play score less. If I had a dollar for every fool at the Saddledome who yelled ‘Shooooooot!’ when there was no shooting lane, I could have retired to a private island in the Caribbean.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by InternationalVillager

If Kuzmenko keeps this up into next year, he’s going to return a haul… 1st round pick + prospect. Every team would love to potentially add a 30-35 goal guy at the deadline.

It could be a haul, but I would slightly temper expectations here.

This year 30-35 goal scorer Tyler Toffoli was traded for 2nd + 3rd. In the offseason he was traded for a 30P player that was healthy scratched in the playoffs + 3rd.

My point is that teams are pretty reluctant to give up 1sts lately. Trades that included 1sts this year: Hertl, Hanifin, Henrique(stupid Oilers), Walker(w. cap dump), Monahan, Lindholm.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by Inferno

If he's clicking with the team I'm happy. If the team is truly as bad as some of the fans say they are they will lose anyway.

If he gets traded next season it'll probably be for the same reason the UFAs were traded this season. Not because Conroy is trying to deliberately be bad for multiple seasons.

Fans don't seem to grasp that sometimes all a team needs 2 or 3 players to go from a bottom feeder to a contender, but if you keep selling off your best players for picks you will always be a bottom feeder.

The Flames have some good some good vets and some good young players plus are about to add some more, if Conny can add a couple of pieces this team can turn it around quickly.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Sure it does. Guys like Gustav Nyquist are routinely available in unrestricted free agency. This year, that guy could be Jake DeBrusk.

Number of times Gustav Nyquist has scored 40 goals in an NHL season: 0
Number of times Jake DeBrusk has scored 40 goals in an NHL season: 0

And now for the bonus data:

Number of times Gustav Nyquist has scored 30 goals in an NHL season: 0
Number of times Jake DeBrusk has scored 30 goals in an NHL season: 0

Sure. You can just pick up 40-goal scorers for nothing any old time.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

If they traded this guy for a pile of assets and signed another guy in UFA who they could trade for more assets, I'd be all for it.

Wonder if we’ll ever keep any players.

Bet their agents will wonder that too.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

The team has had a top 5 PP in the past month and is one of the 4 worst teams in that time frame. You can have a good PP and still be bad. In fact a surefire way to ensure you're bad is to give up 4 plus goals every night. Do that and even 160 powerplay goals clicking at 35% likely won't help you much.

Keep the current defense and I think you are assured of being pretty bad.

[GreenLantern2814]

Like, on another level, you do have to reward guys who play well here with the offer of long term security.

You can’t just parachute players in and flip them without making good faith efforts to keep them.

It’s one thing if they don’t want to stay, but constant turnover and moving off guys who are productive is no way to build a culture.

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Number of times Gustav Nyquist has scored 40 goals in an NHL season: 0
Number of times Jake DeBrusk has scored 40 goals in an NHL season: 0

And now for the bonus data:

Number of times Gustav Nyquist has scored 30 goals in an NHL season: 0
Number of times Jake DeBrusk has scored 30 goals in an NHL season: 0

Sure. You can just pick up 40-goal scorers for nothing any old time.

This is all fine and good but Kuzmenko has technically never done it either. And sure, Nyquist hasn't done it, but he has 74 points this year and is a better all-around player. DeBrusk is primed to pop with more ice time outside of Boston.

Kuzmenko is a skilled, exciting player who is simply not going to keep scoring on a quarter of his shots. There's a way to capitalize off his hot streak while keeping the roster in good shape.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

This is all fine and good but Kuzmenko has technically never done it either. And sure, Nyquist hasn't done it, but he has 74 points this year and is a better all-around player. DeBrusk is primed to pop with more ice time outside of Boston.

Kuzmenko is a skilled, exciting player who is simply not going to keep scoring on a quarter of his shots. There's a way to capitalize off his hot streak while keeping the roster in good shape.

No, Kuzmenko probably isn’t going to shoot 25%.

But he can probably shoot 18%. Alex Tanguay did it for five years here - I think Kuzmenko fills a very similar role, and it seems like they’re a similar level of nasty.

You’re not getting an 18% shooter in UFA for Less than Kuzmenko.

Nyqvist is less than half the player.

Jake DeBrusk will cost more, and isn’t as good.

Philly can’t wait to buy out Ryan Johansen.

If this production continues anywhere near this rate into next season, and the player is open to staying on a reasonable deal, it does not make sense to move off him.