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Old 05-11-2018, 12:22 PM   #201
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I agree that soccer is a tough sell in this city. It occupies an awkward place in between two sets of mindsets. On one hand, you've got that typical arrogance that soccer is for kids and foreigners, but will spend all sorts of time and money following hockey, NFL, etc. etc.

On the other side, you've got "proper" soccer people that will get up early to watch their favourite English or Spanish team, follow their motherland's national team passionately, etc. A lot of expats and immigrants in this group too. The trouble is, many see anything Canadian-grown as inferior. They like soccer - just not Canadian soccer. They'll follow their second-tier domestic club from their father's village in Italy passionately, yet the local club that they can actually go to matches - nope. These people even crap on the MLS because it isn't La Liga.

I think that we are in the midst of a slow culture shift in North America though. The MLS has figured out that supporters groups are needed to make the atmosphere better, that soccer-only stadiums make it more enjoyable, etc. More grassroots. I think that this league gets it too (from early indications).

If the guy with the Denver Broncos room in his basement still thinks that soccer sucks, that's fine. He's a lost cause. But if you can get some people who love the game to put their elitism aside and get them into a festival-like atmosphere, they might realize that supporting the local team can a neat experience, and they can still watch Barcelona on TV - the two can exist together.

I know that you, of all people, get it. If the league and club can tap into that and bridge the divide, this might just work. In the past, teams have plopped themselves in crappy facilities, didn't market themselves well, didn't find a way to appeal to the various little pockets of soccer in Calgary, etc. and then stood there shrugging when it all eventually fell apart.
I think you've highlighted two of the major groups of detractors, but there's also a third. Calgary as a city is generally a pretty lousy sports town unless its "major league", despite being a very small major league town and lacking the same corporate punch it once had. If the product is seen as second rate, they won't come. If the product is seen as too cheap, it won't attract much of a corporate presence, which pro sports need.

When you look back at the Storm and Mustangs, the product cried second rate garbage (even though A-League was a strong Div II to MLS at the time and the actual soccer product wasn't bad), but they played in crappy facilities with no marketing and no appeal to corporate ticket holders.

The trick will be to have a polished and legitimate looking product that companies will buy blocks of season tickets for, and can still attract families and a festival atmosphere. Beer gardens are also a must.
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Old 05-11-2018, 01:05 PM   #202
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^ Great point. As a city, we very much think of ourselves as a "big fish" when it comes to sports. Even the NHL (and certainly the CFL) are small ponds compared with other North American sports, we seem to discount anything less than a top tier. Our local media perpetuates the cycle by ignoring a lot of things outside of the Flames and the Stamps because it is small potatoes, but those potatoes could have grown if they had been watered a little.

OK - enough analogies! I'm cautiously optimistic that this CanPL can generate enough buzz to command some attention. I hope the league has some slick marketing and PR so they can strut a little bit. Force people to take note.
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Old 05-11-2018, 02:12 PM   #203
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I think you've highlighted two of the major groups of detractors, but there's also a third. Calgary as a city is generally a pretty lousy sports town unless its "major league", despite being a very small major league town and lacking the same corporate punch it once had. If the product is seen as second rate, they won't come. If the product is seen as too cheap, it won't attract much of a corporate presence, which pro sports need.
That, frankly, is complete nonsense. The Hitmen and Roughnecks are among the highest drawing teams in their leagues. And we host successful events in numerous sports on top of that.
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Old 05-11-2018, 02:39 PM   #204
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Old 05-11-2018, 03:28 PM   #205
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That, frankly, is complete nonsense. The Hitmen and Roughnecks are among the highest drawing teams in their leagues. And we host successful events in numerous sports on top of that.
The NLL is the "major league" for (box) lacrosse and its pretty widely televised.

As for the Hitmen, that's probably the exception to the rule because its hockey, but I'll give you that one. There's still a long history of poorly supported pro or semi pro teams in Soccer, Basketball, Baseball as well as poorly supported University sports generally.

As a city, we also seem to be okay with aging facilities (Saddledome, McMahon, Foothills, etc.) relative to the offerings in Edmonton, Regina or Winnipeg. Whether that's an issue of public or private funding is a separate issue, but the fact is our facilities are becoming less and less competitive, which doesn't help.

I think its a pretty fair statement that sports teams in Calgary have a tough time. I think much of that is the thought that we're too "big fish", like Jimmy Stang noted. I have a bit of that bias myself for soccer, so I'm hopeful CPL can be a decent product.
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Old 05-11-2018, 05:11 PM   #206
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That, frankly, is complete nonsense. The Hitmen and Roughnecks are among the highest drawing teams in their leagues. And we host successful events in numerous sports on top of that.
They also play at the dome. Not spruce Meadows. If they moved to winsport they'd lose a lot of their crowd really fast. A lot of people in the south won't drive up for a 2 hr game much like a lot of north people don't want to go deep South

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Old 05-11-2018, 06:58 PM   #207
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The NLL is "major league" in the same way the CPL will be "major league".

One of the bigger issues in many cases has been that the leagues that came here were unstable. The Calgary Outlaws were the second highest drawing team in the Canadian Baseball League, for instance, but the entire league collapsed. The Vipers were a mess, largely thanks to Peter Young. Though that resulted directly in the beautiful facility in Okotoks for the Dawgs - who were among the WMBL's best drawing teams when they played in Foothills. In fact, they still hold the single game attendance record for the league, as far as I am aware. The Cannons did as well as could be expected given all the problems of an old facility, bad weather, bad dollar and a league that wanted out of Canada. The Dinos don't draw #### for hockey, but the Cougars were were second in the CWUAA this season according to hockeydb. I don't know about the Crush before they went under, but the Drillers pulled about 1000 fans per game in the ABA, and of course, the 88's were another team that went down only because the league did.

Soccer's really been the only obvious local fail.

I do agree with you on the facility issue though.

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Old 05-11-2018, 07:10 PM   #208
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The NLL is "major league" in the same way the CPL will be "major league".

One of the bigger issues in many cases has been that the leagues that came here were unstable. The Calgary Outlaws were the second highest drawing team in the Canadian Baseball League, for instance, but the entire league collapsed. The Vipers were a mess, largely thanks to Peter Young. Though that resulted directly in the beautiful facility in Okotoks for the Dawgs - who were among the WMBL's best drawing teams when they played in Foothills. In fact, they still hold the single game attendance record for the league, as far as I am aware. The Cannons did as well as could be expected given all the problems of an old facility, bad weather, bad dollar and a league that wanted out of Canada. The Dinos don't draw #### for hockey, but the Cougars were were second in the CWUAA this season according to hockeydb. I don't know about the Crush before they went under, but the Drillers pulled about 1000 fans per game in the ABA, and of course, the 88's were another team that went down only because the league did.

Soccer's really been the only obvious local fail.

I do agree with you on the facility issue though.
That's moreso a Calgary problem and there's nobody to blame for that but the local footy fans. The bad news is that not a lot of people rally around a minnow club unless they're good. Case in point the playoffs for foothills was well attended at Broadview (location and playoff footy drew people to watch). Without a talented club in a convenient area it will always be second rate to something else

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Old 05-12-2018, 07:43 PM   #209
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The NLL is the "major league" for (box) lacrosse and its pretty widely televised.
By widely televised do you mean not televised?
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Old 05-12-2018, 09:39 PM   #210
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That's moreso a Calgary problem and there's nobody to blame for that but the local footy fans. The bad news is that not a lot of people rally around a minnow club unless they're good. Case in point the playoffs for foothills was well attended at Broadview (location and playoff footy drew people to watch). Without a talented club in a convenient area it will always be second rate to something else

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Love Broadview, but “well attended”, was small numbers considering. I think they looked larger because of the minimal seating available.
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Old 05-12-2018, 10:42 PM   #211
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By widely televised do you mean not televised?
Well fortunately here in Saskatoon quite a few are on TV! But yeah maybe one or two Roughnecks games are on TV a year, they used to have more when there was TheScore channel if I remember correctly.
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Old 05-13-2018, 10:41 AM   #212
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Love Broadview, but “well attended”, was small numbers considering. I think they looked larger because of the minimal seating available.
To add to this, the bulk of the attendees were foothills youth teams and coaches, as the club cancelled all youth games to get them to the PDL game that day.

Broadview is a great field in a great location, but unless they bulldoze a few blocks of million dollar infills, it will never be a stadium for professional soccer.
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Old 05-13-2018, 11:00 AM   #213
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nm

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Old 05-14-2018, 01:26 PM   #214
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According to Tommy Wheeldon on Pinder in the morning, there's "big news on Thursday"

https://www.sportsnet.ca/960/ryan-pi...hockey-soccer/
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Old 05-14-2018, 03:40 PM   #215
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Found a couple more announcement dates. Halifax will be announced May 25 according to this Facebook post: https://www.facebook.com/HalifaxCity...74656515937476

And Winnipeg to be announced June 6 according to Jeff Hamilton of the Winnipeg Free Press: https://twitter.com/jeffkhamilton/st...32328870162432
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Old 05-14-2018, 04:25 PM   #216
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I'm really surprised Calgary hasn't done anything, aside from Wheeldon hinting, to advertise their announcement.

York 9 released something a few weeks in advance. Halifax and Winnipeg both announced today a date, time, and location for their announcements. If Calgary really is this week how do they expect anyone to show up?
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Old 05-14-2018, 05:23 PM   #217
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How long do you figure before we see renderings of the new spruce meadows stadium?
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Old 05-14-2018, 05:28 PM   #218
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I'm really surprised Calgary hasn't done anything, aside from Wheeldon hinting, to advertise their announcement.

York 9 released something a few weeks in advance. Halifax and Winnipeg both announced today a date, time, and location for their announcements. If Calgary really is this week how do they expect anyone to show up?
At this point, they really only need to get the media on board.

Though I hope they have something set up to show the public as it heads to Spruce Meadows' summer events.
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Old 05-15-2018, 09:06 AM   #219
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According to Tommy Wheeldon on Pinder in the morning, there's "big news on Thursday"

https://www.sportsnet.ca/960/ryan-pi...hockey-soccer/
32:17 for those interested.
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Old 05-15-2018, 09:14 AM   #220
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it's all marketing and entertainment.

Will fans be entertained at the soccer game?

Why is Lacrosse popular? It's $200 for 9 home games on Friday or Saturday nights, in a controlled environment with music, noise and 25 goals.

Soccer is different. It's outdoors, and 45 minute non-stop halves. The fans have to create their own noise and entertainment and if there are only a few thousand of them, that's tough.

So how does soccer market itself? Who are the stars? How do you get a group of 6 girls to invite each other to a game? Because that's what the Roughnecks have achieved.
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