Bob Costas predicts a dire future for football

[Jiri Hrdina]

Hockey can survive as a no contact sport. Folks who love it now may not like that - but it has at least the opportunity to evolve.
Football can't unless you think folks would pay money to watch flag football.
I've long said that checking and hockey should be only to separate player from puck - but that might not be enough. You may need to take it to the point that basically only stick checks are allowed.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Sainters7

They really have to re-teach players how to tackle at a grass roots level, in terms of the traditional wrapping someone up low and pulling them to the ground. None of this battering ram style just launching yourself at someone headfirst like 85% of tackles these days it seems. Football players tackle like big horn sheep during mating season.

Get that stuff out of the game and it may be a lot more palatable to future generations

That's what we're trying to do at a grass roots level. Here's the problem though. There are too many old school coaches that don't believe in it as a efficient tackling technique and don't teach it or pay lip service. It drives me crazy, that I have to sell coaches on teaching safe tackling techniques at every practice.

There are too many former player coaches who romanticize about putting their helmets in the numbers and leaving a smoking holes.

to me the grass roots organizations have to do more then teaching coaches to teach it, and certifying them.

They have to find a way to audit practices.

They have to change and enforce the rules of what is a safe tackle and what's not, especially at the amateur level. There has to be more then just penalizing head to head tackles, or head blows or even tourist hits. At the peewee and bantam and midget levels any tackle where the helmet is the lead device has to be called.

If a team gets X number of those penalties in a game, then you toss the head coach out of the game.

We are really our worst enemies at times.

Personally I've told coaches that if you don't want to teach safe contact then you shouldn't be coaching period.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Wild GM

I've long said that checking and hockey should be only to separate player from puck - but that might not be enough. You may need to take it to the point that basically only stick checks are allowed.

I hope not.

I think there is a place for checking, as long as the approach is how you describe, instead of obliterating the puck carrier.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

I hope not.

I think there is a place for checking, as long as the approach is how you describe, instead of obliterating the puck carrier.

Hinges on if they can actually get players at scale to buy into that.
Can you have a sport with some level of physicality or does physicality naturally lead to damaging hits.
And get rid of fighting. Now.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Wild GM

Hinges on if they can actually get players at scale to buy into that.

it will take time and needs to be driven at the coaching level during development. But change or die I guess is the option.

Can you have a sport with some level of physicality or does physicality naturally lead to damaging hits.

Yes I think you can, maybe roll back some of the equipment and its protection.

And get rid of fighting. Now.

oh #### yeah

[troutman]

I’m the Wife of a Former N.F.L.
Player. Football Destroyed His Mind.

He chose the sport, but he did not choose brain damage.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/02/o...in-damage.html

I was spoiled rotten.

But since I had known him, he had trouble sleeping, and he has been prone to mood swings and depression. In 2010, things got worrisome, so I arranged for him to be evaluated by neurologists so that he could apply for disability benefits. We traveled from Ohio, where we were living at the time, to North Carolina for full cognitive evaluations and testing. There were seemingly endless amounts of paperwork and record keeping.

He lost weight. It seemed like one day, out of the blue, he stopped being hungry. And often he would forget to eat. I’d find full bowls of cereal left around the house, on bookshelves or the fireplace mantel. The more friends and family commented on his gaunt frame, the more panicked I became. By 2016, he had shrunk to 157 pounds. That’s right, my 6-foot-2 football-player husband weighed 157 pounds (down from around 200 when he was in the N.F.L.). People were visibly shocked when we told them he had played the game professionally.

After struggling in retirement with alcohol abuse for about six years, off and on, he hasn’t had a drink in eight years. And he’s only 43.

Rob’s mood swings scare me sometimes, and I always have to be in tune with early signs of his agitation. I try to protect him from stress so he won’t be overwhelmed. It’s exhausting.

He was losing touch with reality and was getting more and more paranoid.

He went from being a devoted and loving father and husband to someone who felt like a ghost in our home. For a couple of months one winter he was so depressed and detached, he couldn’t muster up the energy to speak. My questions went unanswered until I simply stopped asking them. The silence was unnerving.

[Fozzie_DeBear]

What if everyone wore the Steve Tasker Bobble-head foam cover?

[troutman]

Listen: Ken Dryden on changing the idea of hockey

http://www.cbc.ca/radio/ideas/ken-dr...ckey-1.4473286

[bossy22]

Originally Posted by troutman

Listen: Ken Dryden on changing the idea of hockey

http://www.cbc.ca/radio/ideas/ken-dr...ckey-1.4473286

I'm halfway through his book, "Game Change". As a father whose son has had some serious concussions from competitive snowboarding, it's a tough read. His last major concussion was the worst. He came home from Mammoth a completely different person. We've had to deal with severe depression. Drug abuse. Homelessness. I'd ride my bike around downtown Calgary looking for him when he'd go missing. It was hell. He was 16 when it started. He's 20 now, and is doing much better, but it's now always there in the back of our minds.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by bossy22

I'm halfway through his book, "Game Change". As a father whose son has had some serious concussions from competitive snowboarding, it's a tough read. His last major concussion was the worst. He came home from Mammoth a completely different person. We've had to deal with severe depression. Drug abuse. Homelessness. I'd ride my bike around downtown Calgary looking for him when he'd go missing. It was hell. He was 16 when it started. He's 20 now, and is doing much better, but it's now always there in the back of our minds.

Game Changing is a hard read and it brings a lot of sadness now when thinking back to the Flames' run.
The Monty goal was my favorite moment of that run, and now when I watch it - it breaks my heart that he is gone.
Dryden outlines some compelling ways that hockey must adapt because of the concussion issue. In my mind this isn't an option. It is a MUST. It MUST happen and soon.
The scary thing for football is such a path isn't as clearly apparent. Can it adapt? if not - what happens.
I'm sorry you've had to go through that with your son - I can't imagine
To add: I think any hockey fan should read Game Change. It is a monumentally important book

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

That's what we're trying to do at a grass roots level. Here's the problem though. There are too many old school coaches that don't believe in it as a efficient tackling technique and don't teach it or pay lip service. It drives me crazy, that I have to sell coaches on teaching safe tackling techniques at every practice.

There are too many former player coaches who romanticize about putting their helmets in the numbers and leaving a smoking holes.

to me the grass roots organizations have to do more then teaching coaches to teach it, and certifying them.

They have to find a way to audit practices.

They have to change and enforce the rules of what is a safe tackle and what's not, especially at the amateur level. There has to be more then just penalizing head to head tackles, or head blows or even tourist hits. At the peewee and bantam and midget levels any tackle where the helmet is the lead device has to be called.

If a team gets X number of those penalties in a game, then you toss the head coach out of the game.

We are really our worst enemies at times.

Personally I've told coaches that if you don't want to teach safe contact then you shouldn't be coaching period.

CC, not trying to single you out or anything because you are very knowledgeable.

Anyway, I was listening to a podcast with Chris Borland and he basically said concussions are inevitable. There are ways to adjust the game so that it's not as traumatic (i.e. banning contact until high school) but at the end of the day no amount of training or smart tackling is going to change the fact that people are hurling themselves at each other.

He uses Luke Kuechly as an example of someone who tackles perfectly (i.e. no one has better fundamentals than him) and yet his career is on the verge of being cut short from concussions.

I'm not saying we should ban football, but I don't think teaching "safe contact" is enough.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Wild GM

Hockey can survive as a no contact sport. Folks who love it now may not like that - but it has at least the opportunity to evolve.
Football can't unless you think folks would pay money to watch flag football.
I've long said that checking and hockey should be only to separate player from puck - but that might not be enough. You may need to take it to the point that basically only stick checks are allowed.

Tackling and hitting are not synonymous though.

[Philly06Cup]

How are concussions in rugby?

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Philly06Cup

How are concussions in rugby?

Good question.


https://www.premiershiprugby.com/new...udy-published/

Concussion for the fifth consecutive season was the most commonly reported Premiership Rugby match injury constituting appropriately 25% of all match injuries. It is the consensus view that the continued focus on improving concussion awareness and promoting behavioural change, the formal independent post-match video review of all head injury events as well as a more inclusive and specific identification criteria within the Head Injury Assessment (HIA) process have all contributed to this continued rise in concussion incidents.

45% of all match injuries were sustained in the tackle. Concussion now comprises 20% of all injuries to the ball carrier and 47% of all injuries to the tackler.

I know locally we have to take a baseline test before the season, even us old 3rd Div players. Although this was not a requirement rather a decision by the club.

It is hard to find comparative between rugby and football.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

CC, not trying to single you out or anything because you are very knowledgeable.

Anyway, I was listening to a podcast with Chris Borland and he basically said concussions are inevitable. There are ways to adjust the game so that it's not as traumatic (i.e. banning contact until high school) but at the end of the day no amount of training or smart tackling is going to change the fact that people are hurling themselves at each other.

He uses Luke Kuechly as an example of someone who tackles perfectly (i.e. no one has better fundamentals than him) and yet his career is on the verge of being cut short from concussions.

I'm not saying we should ban football, but I don't think teaching "safe contact" is enough.

I don't disagree with you, and no your not singling me out. As I've said before Safe Contact is one part of the parcel.

Safe contact and technique training though is a large part of the parcel, as coaches we have to be fundamentally focused on teaching kids how to tackle and do it safely without involving their heads. We also have to teach kids how to absorb the hits properly so that they're protecting themselves.

However it goes beyond that obviously and it involves the coaches and the parents and the players and attitudes.

Coaches have to be able to be trained to recognize concussions and head injuries, it sounds simple but it isn't because these things present differently with every different kid.

I think there has to be a discretion is the better part of valor and it comes to the coaches and referees and trainers. If there's a head blow even if the kid presents as ok, maybe we need to sit them for the rest of the game. I've had concussions where I was fine right after the hit and then the symptoms creeped op on me.

I think in terms of coaches attitudes there needs to be adjustment. Personally, there are too many coaches that talk about the concept of cleating, blasting players out of their shoes, or laying down the big hit because its intimidating. There are too many coaches that want a big hitting nasty defense because its intimidating. Because of that they teach players to blast other players. They might have good technique and keep their heads out, but they're bouncing the tacklees head off of the ground.

I think that coaches need to be tossed from the game if their player gets a passenger hit penalty or a head shot penalty. the coordinator for that player and the head coach are gone. If it happens multiple times your suspended.

I think that the various football bodies have to take a more active interest in auditing teams and practices. We are obligated to teach safe tackling, but right now all it is, is a person from a football body might ask a kid after a game, hey do they teach safe contact. And how many coaches are going to tell these kids to say yes no matter what?

I agree but disagree with you in terms of when hitting should take place, frankly I don't think they need hitting in Atom or even to an extent Peewee. However I do think that because Bantam are preparing for the high school path we should be teaching kids to hit and take hits in a game (we don't hit in practice) because that size disparity really happens in high school where you get a 6 foot 3 250 pound end smoking a 5 foot 4 140 pound QB.

Refs need to be better, coaches need to be better, and parents have to be better and involved and ask the right questions.

I mean if your going to ban football,

You have to ban rugby
You have to ban any kind of contact in hockey
You have to ban headers in soccer.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

You have to ban rugby
You have to ban any kind of contact in hockey
You have to ban headers in soccer.

How the hell will I justify my beer drinking?


Also Lacrosse.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

How the hell will I justify my beer drinking?


Also Lacrosse.

The first rule of the knitting circle is not to talk about the knitting circle.

[Senator Clay Davis]

In today's episode of "Old man yells at cloud"...

https://twitter.com/user/status/1019623324123566080

[troutman]

Sign O' The Times?


American Flag Football League reaches television partnership with NFL Network

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/2...ip-nfl-network