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Old 02-28-2021, 10:55 AM   #41
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This was the line-up that was very competitive with Dallas... w/ Tkachuk hurt and then out for a great portion of it.


Trying to get 4 lines that can be rolled is pretty much impossible in the cap era unless you have 3-4 ELC players. Having replacement level players playing anything expect 4th line minutes is a recipe for failure.
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Old 02-28-2021, 11:04 AM   #42
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Why? Lots of D have converted. Donít know til you try.
How many Defenceman at the age of 23 have converted to wing and stayed there? Especially smaller guys who rely on skating and mobility.

Burns and Bufuglien played both in Junior, and both eventually settled at D. They were also big bodied guys who could crash and bang and crowd the net. Things that Kylington is not equipped to do.

This isn't Mens second Division rec league. Trying to reprogram a 23 year old with Kylington's skill set is extremely unlikely to work.
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Old 02-28-2021, 11:57 AM   #43
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TBF, I think both Monahan and Gaudreau have raised their physical game this year. Monahan is trying to use his body in the forecheck, and Gaudreau isnít wasting time looking for calls. They are both a little less predictable, what with Johnny shooting and Monahan passing.
Maybe, time will tell...if we get to the playoffs.

Hopefully you're right but I'm disappointed we're back to the same formation that hasn't worked for 3 playoffs.
I understand it's likely what's best with the roster we have, but I'm not confident they'd get over that playoff hump.
Happy to be wrong if they do.
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Old 02-28-2021, 12:29 PM   #44
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Maybe, time will tell...if we get to the playoffs.

Hopefully you're right but I'm disappointed we're back to the same formation that hasn't worked for 3 playoffs.
I understand it's likely what's best with the roster we have, but I'm not confident they'd get over that playoff hump.
Happy to be wrong if they do.

I truly donít understand this.

Have you seen the body of work the first 21 games?

I am far from disappointed, rather I am pleased that Ward seems to have finally come to his senses.
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Old 02-28-2021, 02:36 PM   #45
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I truly donít understand this.

Have you seen the body of work the first 21 games?

I am far from disappointed, rather I am pleased that Ward seems to have finally come to his senses.
I get his concerns, I share them. These lines didnít work when the going got tough last year, and just blaming Ward is a cop out. They didnít work under Peters the year before.

Having two very good Cs who are a threat to score is a remedy for not having a top tier C like Matthews or MacKinnon. The purple Gatorade line is really good against a soft defensive team like the Sens. I want to see them deal with tighter D.
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Old 02-28-2021, 02:55 PM   #46
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I get his concerns, I share them. These lines didnít work when the going got tough last year, and just blaming Ward is a cop out. They didnít work under Peters the year before.

Having two very good Cs who are a threat to score is a remedy for not having a top tier C like Matthews or MacKinnon. The purple Gatorade line is really good against a soft defensive team like the Sens. I want to see them deal with tighter D.
You mean beating the worst team in the league with a goalie that couldn't save a beachball isn't all the proof you need?

It's actually kind of sad that Ward has to stack the top line just to beat Ottawa. This team might make the playoffs doing that, but if they can't spread depth throughout the line-up, they aren't going to make it far in the playoffs.

Ward's line experiments may not have paid off, but I understand why he was doing it.
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Old 02-28-2021, 03:03 PM   #47
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You mean beating the worst team in the league with a goalie that couldn't save a beachball isn't all the proof you need?

It's actually kind of sad that Ward has to stack the top line just to beat Ottawa. This team might make the playoffs doing that, but if they can't spread depth throughout the line-up, they aren't going to make it far in the playoffs.

Ward's line experiments may not have paid off, but I understand why he was doing it.
So what do you want them to do? Keep going with lines that don't work and keep losing 6-1?
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Old 02-28-2021, 03:05 PM   #48
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You mean beating the worst team in the league with a goalie that couldn't save a beachball isn't all the proof you need?

It's actually kind of sad that Ward has to stack the top line just to beat Ottawa. This team might make the playoffs doing that, but if they can't spread depth throughout the line-up, they aren't going to make it far in the playoffs.

Ward's line experiments may not have paid off, but I understand why he was doing it.
I agree with all of that. Itís why, while I think Ward can easily be improved upon, saying it was ďcrazyĒ he was starting Lindholm at C was something I pushed back against. Not only did it make some sense on paper, the Flamesí first three games looked fine. Then they had a break and played the top two teams in the division at the the time, losing close games to Toronto in which Monahan and Gaudreau were still producing.

I agree they should keep the present lineup for a while, but if they can ever find a good two way RW to take Lindholmís spot, Lindholm should be a C.
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Old 02-28-2021, 03:12 PM   #49
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I agree with all of that. Itís why, while I think Ward can easily be improved upon, saying it was ďcrazyĒ he was starting Lindholm at C was something I pushed back against. Not only did it make some sense on paper, the Flamesí first three games looked fine. Then they had a break and played the top two teams in the division at the the time, losing close games to Toronto in which Monahan and Gaudreau were still producing.

I agree they should keep the present lineup for a while, but if they can ever find a good two way RW to take Lindholmís spot, Lindholm should be a C.
Id be willing to wager thats what tree is looking for with Bennett. I think it's only a matter of time for Benny now. Personally I'd like him to stay but...

I keep swinging back to the Colorado rumor and I keep thinking Nichushkin. Not an RHS but defensively comparable I think to Lindy. And who knows what he could produce having Monny and Johnny as line mates.
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Old 02-28-2021, 03:28 PM   #50
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Id be willing to wager thats what tree is looking for with Bennett. I think it's only a matter of time for Benny now. Personally I'd like him to stay but...

I keep swinging back to the Colorado rumor and I keep thinking Nichushkin. Not an RHS but defensively comparable I think to Lindy. And who knows what he could produce having Monny and Johnny as line mates.
The one guy theyíve never ride is Dube, which baffles me.

I think Bennett is more effective as a C between two high IQ but north south guys like Dube and Lucic. I didnít think much of his play on the Monahan line despite a couple jam in goals. He was better than Leivo or Simon but still not really adding much. And his defence isnít great which is part of what those two guys need.
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Old 02-28-2021, 04:16 PM   #51
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This team needs a right shot power forward. Team has got too many fill-in wingers that shoot left. Same with defense. It's kind of odd that most people in hockey shoots left but writes with their right hand. When the Flames won the Stanley Cup in '89, they had depth on and skilled players that were right hand shot. Seems for the last 30 years, the Flames have a gaping hole at center or at right wing and/or right hand shot D-man. And the only thing management has done over the years is to fill in the holes with goalies.
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Old 02-28-2021, 04:25 PM   #52
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This team needs a right shot power forward. Team has got too many fill-in wingers that shoot left. Same with defense. It's kind of odd that most people in hockey shoots left but writes with their right hand. When the Flames won the Stanley Cup in '89, they had depth on and skilled players that were right hand shot. Seems for the last 30 years, the Flames have a gaping hole at center or at right wing and/or right hand shot D-man. And the only thing management has done over the years is to fill in the holes with goalies.
At some point players switched shooting hands to be opposite their writing hand. I donít know when. When I grew up if you wrote right, you shot right.
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Old 02-28-2021, 04:29 PM   #53
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At some point players switched shooting hands to be opposite their writing hand. I donít know when. When I grew up if you wrote right, you shot right.
When I grew up you learned to shoot with your first free stick
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Old 02-28-2021, 04:42 PM   #54
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Brett Connolly just got put on waivers, he could be an option for the monohan gaudreau line.
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Old 02-28-2021, 04:57 PM   #55
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Yeah, I find that to be different

Give a kid a stick and the kid will show you which way they shoot. Even if it turns out to be a wrong handed one. (They won’t know what the curve is for)
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Old 02-28-2021, 05:09 PM   #56
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So what do you want them to do? Keep going with lines that don't work and keep losing 6-1?
Not saying that at all.

It's far enough into the season that he needs to cut the rope and fall back to whatever works. It's just a shame that there does not appear to be more options and more flexibility with this roster. This team doesn't have a Matthews, McDavid, or MacKinnon. Players that are going to pull through no matter what. On paper, this team's strength is supposed to be it's depth and deployment options. In reality, it hasn't played out that way which is unfortunate. I think it's time to turn the page and a roster shake-up is needed, but it won't be easy to make big changes this year.
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Old 02-28-2021, 05:53 PM   #57
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I get his concerns, I share them. These lines didnít work when the going got tough last year, and just blaming Ward is a cop out. They didnít work under Peters the year before.

Having two very good Cs who are a threat to score is a remedy for not having a top tier C like Matthews or MacKinnon. The purple Gatorade line is really good against a soft defensive team like the Sens. I want to see them deal with tighter D.
1) the Flames were missing their best highest paid player.

Pretending that the team is going to be successful with Tkachuk missing is absurd.

Sort of like spiking the ball when spanking Winnipeg when they were missing their two best forwards.

Try to provide an example of a team having playoff success when their best forward is injured (or not playing at a very high level)

2) The #1 D man just played poorly in the playoffs. Once again try to imagine any playoff success if the #1 d-man played as poorly as Gio. Rather than leading the team he was a drag on it.

3) Arguably the best line in the playoffs was Bennett Lucic and Dube. Maybe work with that rather than trying to go full blender get some value out of Leivo and Simon who were not wanted for the league min salary where they left
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Old 02-28-2021, 05:55 PM   #58
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1) the Flames were missing their best highest paid player.

Pretending that the team is going to be successful with Tkachuk missing is absurd.

Sort of like spiking the ball when spanking Winnipeg when they were missing their two best forwards.

Try to provide an example of a team having playoff success when their best forward is injured (or not playing at a very high level)

2) The #1 D man just played poorly in the playoffs. Once again try to imagine any playoff success if the #1 d-man played as poorly as Gio. Rather than leading the team he was a drag on it.

3) Arguably the best line in the playoffs was Bennett Lucic and Dube. Maybe work with that rather than trying to go full blender get some value out of Leivo and Simon who were not wanted for the league min salary where they left
Now do two years ago.
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Old 02-28-2021, 06:03 PM   #59
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Now do two years ago.

Monahan was playing with a broken thumb

Last edited by DeluxeMoustache; 02-28-2021 at 06:08 PM. Reason: Autocorrect volunteered Monaghan as a spelling
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Old 02-28-2021, 06:12 PM   #60
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Monahan was playing with a broken thumb
Doesn't count. The year Langkow played the whole playoffs with two broken hands, CP had their pitchforks out. A lot of posters were saying over and over that injuries are no excuse for losing.
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