Safe Injection Sites approved for edm, Cgy announcement tba

[peter12]

Originally Posted by you&me

I don't think that's fair.

I would guess the vast, vast (vast) majority of people are in favour of "street-entrenched and vulnerable people to actually receive dignified care"... What they're not in favour of is increased property crimes & thefts and littered needles not being properly disposed of... I don't understand why it's not acceptable for someone to be opposed to those things without being considered a heartless monster nimby.

Look, no one is saying that safe injection sites are a magic bullet. They are a bandaid solution. That said, preventing overdoses and IV transmitted infections is an important part of the solution that can't be ignored.

I live in the global capital of littered needles, and yeah, you see them, but I think some posters here are being a little bit hysterical about the problem.

In Vancouver, if you see one, you can phone a service, and they will pick it up immediately.

[Sliver]

Since hard drugs are illegal, we should be rounding these people up and removing them from society. I don't think they should go to jail, though. Let's make a jail/hospital hybrid. Counselling must be completed and you have to be sober for, IDK, 90 days before release. The rehab areas will be out of town in the middle of a field.

Letting these guys stagger around grossing out the rest of us is not working. They're killing themselves, they're detracting from the city and its livability, and safe injections sites are accomplishing diddly squat.

These hard drugs are insane. I've seen somebody go completely down the toilet after using them until they died. I'm fine with funding this through tax dollars, although we need a plan B for the guys that don't get/stay clean. My wife's suggestion is to load them all up on a cruise ship under the guise of a vacation, then sinking the boat once it gets nice and deep. Not sure if there is the appetite for that, though.

[peter12]

[QUOTE=2Stonedbirds;7181481][QUOTE=peter12;7181469]NIMBYs can't google?

https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...76871614018754

Thanks.
It says things are better but not by what margin.



Wait, so those opposed to safe injection sites are nimbys, who also fund such sites, who dont care about people and then you drop this gem? Sounds like some good ol fashioned NIMBYism to me.

I am generally opposed to the increasing NIMBY sentiment prevalent across our cities where residential property owners are able to exercise their collective voices to stop construction, development, or programs that they personally do not like - no matter the expense to the public good.

That goes for pipelines, condos, and safe injection sites. We have massive problems, and the solution is not to ignore the problem just because there is some short-term hardship.

This goes doubly for safe injection sites, in my opinion. Opposition to which ignores the immense hardship and misery of our fellow citizens because maybe seeing it up close will make you a little bit uncomfortable or inconvenienced.

The immorality of that position leaves me a bit incredulous, to be honest.

[Locke]

I also have to laugh at the Holier-than-thou condescension that people should be honoured to afforded the endless joys of having a Safe Injection Site in their neighbourhood.

Dont they understand and appreciate all of the benefits they get to reap? They're just rolling in all of the perks of having a Safe Injection site right in their backyards!!

Ungrateful bastards!!

Or instead of vilifying people who understandably dislike living right next to Safe Injection Site (as most people would) and yet do it anyways and more than likely have every right to bitch and moan about it from time to time, maybe take the opportunity to have a little perspective.

And no....'think about the social benefits it presents to the underpriviliged you cruel and heartless NIMBYS!! is likely not a benefit to people who have to deal with the day to day grind of it.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Since hard drugs are illegal, we should be rounding these people up and removing them from society. I don't think they should go to jail, though. Let's make a jail/hospital hybrid. Counselling must be completed and you have to be sober for, IDK, 90 days before release. The rehab areas will be out of town in the middle of a field.

Letting these guys stagger around grossing out the rest of us is not working. They're killing themselves, they're detracting from the city and its livability, and safe injections sites are accomplishing diddly squat.

These hard drugs are insane. I've seen somebody go completely down the toilet after using them until they died. I'm fine with funding this through tax dollars, although we need a plan B for the guys that don't get/stay clean. My wife's suggestion is to load them all up on a cruise ship under the guise of a vacation, then sinking the boat once it gets nice and deep. Not sure if there is the appetite for that, though.

Sorry man, I love your posts on CP normally, even at a time when most didn't, but this is just too silly and stupid coming from an adult. Even ignoring the ugliness in how you describe human beings, it's just too beyond the scope of traditional trolling.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Locke

I also have to laugh at the Holier-than-thou condescension that people should be honoured to afforded the endless joys of having a Safe Injection Site in their neighbourhood.

Dont they understand and appreciate all of the benefits they get to reap? They're just rolling in all of the perks of having a Safe Injection site right in their backyards!!

Ungrateful bastards!!

Or instead of vilifying people who understandably dislike living right next to Safe Injection Site (as most people would) and yet do it anyways and more than likely have every right to bitch and moan about it from time to time, maybe take the opportunity to have a little perspective.

And no....'think about the social benefits it presents to the underpriviliged you cruel and heartless NIMBYS!! is likely not a benefit to people who have to deal with the day to day grind of it.

The bold is all kind of over the top, and a huge counter point is that safe injection sites aren't for the benefit of the people that live close by. But yes, their opinions and fears do need to be taken into account, absolutely.

As a society you can't always let those loud opinions rule the day either, though, or else you'll never have anything built or dealt with anywhere.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Locke

I also have to laugh at the Holier-than-thou condescension that people should be honoured to afforded the endless joys of having a Safe Injection Site in their neighbourhood.

Dont they understand and appreciate all of the benefits they get to reap? They're just rolling in all of the perks of having a Safe Injection site right in their backyards!!

Ungrateful bastards!!

Or instead of vilifying people who understandably dislike living right next to Safe Injection Site (as most people would) and yet do it anyways and more than likely have every right to bitch and moan about it from time to time, maybe take the opportunity to have a little perspective.

And no....'think about the social benefits it presents to the underpriviliged you cruel and heartless NIMBYS!! is likely not a benefit to people who have to deal with the day to day grind of it.

This is such a bad faith post.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Sorry man, I love your posts on CP normally, even at a time when most didn't, but this is just too silly and stupid coming from an adult. Even ignoring the ugliness in how you describe human beings, it's just too beyond the scope of traditional trolling.

FTR, it was a very close family member that got hooked on hard drugs and they became an absolute write-off as a human being. Their old personality was erased and replaced with a junkie-zombie hybrid. It was awful and gross and gives me the willies thinking about their last couple of years. Prior to that, they were my favourite person on earth.

Do you know any junkies personally? Like I'm talking completely strung out, fataed out of their gourd, and completely dissociated with reality. People can be so lost they lose all value to their friends, family and society.

My position is we need to lock them up and treat their addiction. Handing out free needles and resuscitating them does nothing to help anyone. They need counselling and sobriety. Nothing else is an option.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by jayswin

The bold is all kind of over the top, and a huge counter point is that safe injection sites aren't for the benefit of the people that live close by. But yes, their opinions and fears do need to be taken into account, absolutely.

As a society you can't always let those loud opinions rule the day either, though, or else you'll never have anything built or dealt with anywhere.

Of course. And peter said the same thing.

Tell me though....was the Safe Injection Site built? Do the residents like it? Is it still there?

There was deemed a need. The facility was constructed. The residents dont like it. The facility remains.

The rest is just people complaining about junkies in their neighbourhood.

Valid complaint? I think so. I'd bet even Mr. Rogers himself wouldnt be overly thrilled with these neighbours.

But this is just complaining about people complaining despite their concerns being quite valid.

And yet the facility remains.

[2Stonedbirds]

[QUOTE=peter12;7181491][QUOTE=2Stonedbirds;7181481]

Originally Posted by peter12

NIMBYs can't google?

https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...76871614018754


I am generally opposed to the increasing NIMBY sentiment prevalent across our cities where residential property owners are able to exercise their collective voices to stop construction, development, or programs that they personally do not like - no matter the expense to the public good.

That goes for pipelines, condos, and safe injection sites. We have massive problems, and the solution is not to ignore the problem just because there is some short-term hardship.

This goes doubly for safe injection sites, in my opinion. Opposition to which ignores the immense hardship and misery of our fellow citizens because maybe seeing it up close will make you a little bit uncomfortable or inconvenienced.

The immorality of that position leaves me a bit incredulous, to be honest.

I get that. I also agree that as a society we shouldn't turn a blind eye to the problem and hope it goes away. However, I dont think it's unfair to question impact on other people, not just those affected by opioid use.
I have a freind who's a paramedic in Lethbridge. He says his job description is essentially hitting people with NARCAN all day, sometimes twice. Frontline workers also feel this pressure. Also have another freind who's institutionalized because he cooked his brain on opiates, specifically codeine. Incredibly bright and went right down that dark hole with no turning back.
I guess my position is I would prefer we actually intervene in the usage rather than centralize it, regardless of detrimental affects. In Lethbridges case, it HAS NOT contained it to the site, Galt Gardens and the Northside is still the horror show it's always been. But now downtown is as well, and property crime is off the charts. Do we not also care about impact to the entire population?

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Sliver

FTR, it was a very close family member that got hooked on hard drugs and they became an absolute write-off as a human being. Their old personality was erased and replaced with a junkie-zombie hybrid. It was awful and gross and gives me the willies thinking about their last couple of years. Prior to that, they were my favourite person on earth.

Do you know any junkies personally? Like I'm talking completely strung out, fataed out of their gourd, and completely dissociated with reality. People can be so lost they lose all value to their friends, family and society.

My position is we need to lock them up and treat their addiction. Handing out free needles and resuscitating them does nothing to help anyone. They need counselling and sobriety. Nothing else is an option.

One other thing on this: I wish my plan was policy when my family member was struggling. They needed to be ripped out of their life and helped and given time to become sober. Giving him free needles was not helpful.

[Shawn_Cronin44]

Originally Posted by jayswin

The bold is all kind of over the top, and a huge counter point is that safe injection sites aren't for the benefit of the people that live close by. But yes, their opinions and fears do need to be taken into account, absolutely.

As a society you can't always let those loud opinions rule the day either, though, or else you'll never have anything built or dealt with anywhere.

Is it really over the top? Try leaving the burbs and come visit me for a weekend and you can experience all the benefits of living within 250m of the SIS. We'll park your car on the street so it can be broken into. You can walk my dog at 11pm and be asked for smokes and money and then be threatened as you pass by for not giving them either. Maybe you'll even get to experience someone overdosing in real life and get to call 911. These are the perks of having an SIS set up in your neighborhood.

[you&me]

Originally Posted by Shawn_Cronin44

Is it really over the top? Try leaving the burbs and come visit me for a weekend and you can experience all the benefits of living within 250m of the SIS. We'll park your car on the street so it can be broken into. You can walk my dog at 11pm and be asked for smokes and money and then be threatened as you pass by for not giving them either. Maybe you'll even get to experience someone overdosing in real life and get to call 911. These are the perks of having an SIS set up in your neighborhood.

Surely you left out some other benefits... A friend's coworker's dog required treatment from sniffing, and thus sticking itself, with a improperly discarded needle...

Now I realize this sounds ridiculous and is surely an isolated incident. But nonetheless it shows yet another way that quality of life for those in the vicinity of the safe injection site is compromised... Can't even take your dog for a pee.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Shawn_Cronin44

Is it really over the top? Try leaving the burbs and come visit me for a weekend and you can experience all the benefits of living within 250m of the SIS. We'll park your car on the street so it can be broken into. You can walk my dog at 11pm and be asked for smokes and money and then be threatened as you pass by for not giving them either. Maybe you'll even get to experience someone overdosing in real life and get to call 911. These are the perks of having an SIS set up in your neighborhood.

? I was referring to the hyperbolic examples Locke gave of what people who don't live near SAS's are saying to those who do. Point being, most people understand exactly how bad it is, but are weighing the benefits of saving lives/not spreading disease against your discomfort.

If you noticed, I'm one of the ones in favour of SAS's that fully admits I'd be a NIMBY if it happened on my street. That's human nature, and you have every right to have your complaints heard. You just have to understand that society can't put full weight into the opinions of those that live beside something unwanted.

[peter12]

[QUOTE=2Stonedbirds;7181522][QUOTE=peter12;7181491]

Originally Posted by 2Stonedbirds

I get that. I also agree that as a society we shouldn't turn a blind eye to the problem and hope it goes away. However, I dont think it's unfair to question impact on other people, not just those affected by opioid use.
I have a freind who's a paramedic in Lethbridge. He says his job description is essentially hitting people with NARCAN all day, sometimes twice. Frontline workers also feel this pressure. Also have another freind who's institutionalized because he cooked his brain on opiates, specifically codeine. Incredibly bright and went right down that dark hole with no turning back.
I guess my position is I would prefer we actually intervene in the usage rather than centralize it, regardless of detrimental affects. In Lethbridges case, it HAS NOT contained it to the site, Galt Gardens and the Northside is still the horror show it's always been. But now downtown is as well, and property crime is off the charts. Do we not also care about impact to the entire population?

We all have personal experience with the opioid crisis. I don't think anyone would disagree that more long-term solutions are needed.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Sliver

FTR, it was a very close family member that got hooked on hard drugs and they became an absolute write-off as a human being. Their old personality was erased and replaced with a junkie-zombie hybrid. It was awful and gross and gives me the willies thinking about their last couple of years. Prior to that, they were my favourite person on earth.

Do you know any junkies personally? Like I'm talking completely strung out, fataed out of their gourd, and completely dissociated with reality. People can be so lost they lose all value to their friends, family and society.

My position is we need to lock them up and treat their addiction. Handing out free needles and resuscitating them does nothing to help anyone. They need counselling and sobriety. Nothing else is an option.

I'll think about this more and respond later. On the surface your original post came off ugly and dehumanizing, but after this maybe there's more to it (like when people are harsher when it affects them personally).

[Zarley]

Originally Posted by peter12

The supervised injection sites actually take needles off the street and reduce infections and overdoses. It's a drop in the ocean to what needs to be done, but this is all representative of much larger socio-economic issues which a lot of the posters in this thread could spend a bit more time learning about.

I realize you’re just being obnoxious, but I’ll humour you with a reply anyway. The safe injection site (as implemented in Calgary) has resulted in a massive increase in needles on the street because there isn’t actually a requirement to inject your drugs at the site.

The issue I have is that via this policy, we are prioritizing the health and safety of a group of individuals that are willingly living a high risk, immature lifestyle at the expense of the health and safety of those of us who live and work in the neighbourhood and actually contribute to society.

[peter12]

I lived a couple blocks away from the Hastings and Main epicentre for a year and it was wild sometimes (mainly from all the sirens), but it wasn't intolerable by any stretch. People here are exaggerating.

I also lived in the Beltline for 5 years and it was never a place where cars DIDN'T get broken into.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Zarley

I realize you’re just being obnoxious, but I’ll humour you with a reply anyway. The safe injection site (as implemented in Calgary) has resulted in a massive increase in needles on the street because there isn’t actually a requirement to inject your drugs at the site.

The issue I have is that via this policy, we are prioritizing the health and safety of a group of individuals that are willingly living a high risk, immature lifestyle at the expense of the health and safety of those of us who live and work in the neighbourhood and actually contribute to society.

"Willingly."

[Shawn_Cronin44]

Originally Posted by peter12

I lived a couple blocks away from the Hastings and Main epicentre for a year and it was wild sometimes (mainly from all the sirens), but it wasn't intolerable by any stretch. People here are exaggerating.

I also lived in the Beltline for 5 years and it was never a place where cars DIDN'T get broken into.

Exaggerating? Lol. Silly suburbanites.