CalgaryNEXT Discussion pt. 2

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by Muta

I'm sorry, but what were you expecting? A finished design right off the bat? If so, you might not fully understand how design and construction projects work. And that's okay, not everyone does.

If you don't like the concept that was released, that's a matter of your own opinion. It's all in the eye of the beholder.

A finished design? No, but at least a decent rendering/concept.

You were telling us every few weeks how we were going to be blow away and it was one of the most underwhelming things I've ever seen.
It's not that I don't like it, it's that it looks like a 2nd year ACAD student could have whipped up that presentation in half a day.

[automaton 3]

I didn't expect bulletproof.

Given the time that they have apparently been working on this, I did expect something much more polished than what was presented.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Muta

I'm sorry, but what were you expecting? A finished design right off the bat? If so, you might not fully understand how design and construction projects work. And that's okay, not everyone does.

I don't think a finished building design was realistic (because at this stage it would be pointless), but people were at least looking for a well executed vision to get excited about. Something that showed the potential of the finished product if things went as planned. Look at the two Ottawa proposals released last month...that looks professional even if half of it is fluff. Or look at what CMLC does with East Village. What CalgaryNEXT gave us is a lazy joke in comparison.

I think this project has massive holes when it comes to the area-planning and financing, but they at least could've made people fall in love with the dream. They failed badly on that front.

[kermitology]

Originally Posted by Muta

If you expected a extremely unique project, likely projected to be in the hundreds of millions of dollars, to be completely bulletproof and seamless in its design from day one, then I don't know what to say. Maybe adjust your expectations. This isn't a $500 tool shed being built here. Also, it isn't your money or project, so if your ideas are so much better, maybe get involved somehow?

Except it didn't even come close to being anything that even remotely resembled a draft proposal.

It was effectively a crayon drawing and someone putting their thumb out with one eye closed to estimate "yeah, it should be right about here."

This was extremely unprofessional, lacks any sense of reality, and even what has been presented is poorly thought out. You led us to believe that this would have some semblance of a plan and instead it's a lump of clay that may eventually turn into a sculpture, assuming it doesn't dry out from lack of anyone touching it over the next 5 years.

Everything associated with CalgaryNEXT has been a complete miss.

[Flash Walken]

Ten Years in the making

[Muta]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

A finished design? No, but at least a decent rendering/concept.

You were telling us every few weeks how we were going to be blow away and it was one of the most underwhelming things I've ever seen.
It's not that I don't like it, it's that it looks like a 2nd year ACAD student could have whipped up that presentation in half a day.

Wow, tough crowd.

If you think a massive, connected arena / stadium anchoring the revitalization of an outdated district is underwhelming, I don't know what to say. You may not like the design or the renderings that were released (I'm not the largest fan of them either), but to have a single building that combines our city's sports facilities is pretty special. It's rarely been done anywhere else.

[jammies]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

You have little concept about the complexities of major construction and redevelopment projects, this much is true.

Can you not just admit that the proposal's presentation was terrible? I've personally done better presentations with a day or two's preparation - they weren't for construction projects, sure, but crappy graphics and vague concepts papered over with buzzwords are universally bad.

Do you seriously not realize how much of a clown you look like, telling us yet AGAIN that we're going to see something amazing. Nobody was amazed! No business people downloaded that garbage to show their marketing teams just how it's done! It was one of the weakest presentations I've ever seen, and I've seen hundreds and hundreds, if not thousands.

I don't often get worked up, but you are just unbelievable. How you can condescend to people when you are massively in the wrong is just infuriating - if your target audience doesn't like your message, you've FAILED, all the shrill shilling you can muster cannot deny that fact. It's marketing! If it doesn't sell what's being touted, it is not good enough! FAIL.

[normtwofinger]

Originally Posted by Muta

Wow, tough crowd.

If you think a massive, connected arena / stadium anchoring the revitalization of an outdated district is underwhelming, I don't know what to say. You may not like the design or the renderings that were released (I'm not the largest fan of them either), but to have a single building that combines our city's sports facilities is pretty special. It's rarely been done anywhere else.

There's a reason for that.

[saillias]

Those retractable seats that cover up the track during football games are special for sure.

[cam_wmh]

Originally Posted by Muta

Wow, tough crowd.

If you think a massive, connected arena / stadium anchoring the revitalization of an outdated district is underwhelming, I don't know what to say. You may not like the design or the renderings that were released (I'm not the largest fan of them either), but to have a single building that combines our city's sports facilities is pretty special. It's rarely been done anywhere else.

So then all we're left with is a "world class idea" and CS&E with their hands out.

Neat.

[Ozy_Flame]

Muta - basically the project is in fetus stage, and some people are disappointed that the baby wasn't in HD, high resolution final product when the ultrasounds were presented. Then they were upset that the ultrasound didn't show what the baby would look like as an adult.

Tough crowd indeed.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by jammies

Can you not just admit that the proposal's presentation was terrible? I've personally done better presentations with a day or two's preparation - they weren't for construction projects, sure, but crappy graphics and vague concepts papered over with buzzwords are universally bad.

Do you seriously not realize how much of a clown you look like, telling us yet AGAIN that we're going to see something amazing. Nobody was amazed! No business people downloaded that garbage to show their marketing teams just how it's done! It was one of the weakest presentations I've ever seen, and I've seen hundreds and hundreds, if not thousands.

I don't often get worked up, but you are just unbelievable. How you can condescend to people when you are massively in the wrong is just infuriating - if your target audience doesn't like your message, you've FAILED, all the shrill shilling you can muster cannot deny that fact. It's marketing! If it doesn't sell what's being touted, it is not good enough! FAIL.

Out of thanks, A+, amazing post.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by jammies

Can you not just admit that the proposal's presentation was terrible? I've personally done better presentations with a day or two's preparation - they weren't for construction projects, sure, but crappy graphics and vague concepts papered over with buzzwords are universally bad.

Do you seriously not realize how much of a clown you look like, telling us yet AGAIN that we're going to see something amazing. Nobody was amazed! No business people downloaded that garbage to show their marketing teams just how it's done! It was one of the weakest presentations I've ever seen, and I've seen hundreds and hundreds, if not thousands.

I don't often get worked up, but you are just unbelievable. How you can condescend to people when you are massively in the wrong is just infuriating - if your target audience doesn't like your message, you've FAILED, all the shrill shilling you can muster cannot deny that fact. It's marketing! If it doesn't sell what's being touted, it is not good enough! FAIL.

I don't think I've ever said how amazing it will look, especially with what was released.

[Muta]

I only posted again to say that I've seen an alternate scheme, that's all. Thought people might have liked that tidbit. Once again, I get hammered from all angles. I don't need to prove myself, the mods already confirmed that long ago. Tired of being attacked by drive-bys and people's opinions that somehow blame me.

I just wanted to share with the board what I could say. That's not happening again. I'm out.

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by Muta

What wall are you talking about?

I expect a design decision like this to be accompanied by a grainy black and white promo film describing how 8 lane one way roads around the whole thing will help people access it with their newfangled personal auto-mobiles.

[RM14]

Here is the original Edmonton concept for reference. Nothing like what is being built. Don't get too hung up on the original renderings.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zz3rRiLsbTU

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Muta

I only posted again to say that I've seen an alternate scheme, that's all.

Originally Posted by Muta

Can confirm. I've seen an alternate scheme, and it was ridiculously cool.

An alternate scheme that was ridiculously cool. I'm sure no one doubts that you somehow have an in to the plans. It's just that no one puts any weight on what you think is cool after the last time.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Bill Bumface

8-bit first-draft rendering

Like I said, there are people who cannot decipher the difference between concept and reality. This is one of those instances.

[Enoch Root]

Hey, let's all shoot the messenger!

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

details like the glass roof (I believe this idea came from the new Minneapolis field) on the field house are cutting edge facility design.

The renders certainly don't show such a roof. I think at most that was thrown out as a "we could do this.. maybe".

The decision to have an indoor stadium better have some innovative details around it, because basically there hasn't ever been one in the history of mankind that didn't suck and fail.