Sam Bennett Value: Have the Flames held on TOO long? OR is he awesome?

[The Fonz]

When I watch Bennett play, I just don't think he thinks the game well enough. He makes so many... stupid decisions.

When I watch other strong offensive players, it's the opposite. They make plays that have me marveling at their offensive instincts, and how quickly they can make those decisions.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by belsarius

I'm not trying to draw statistical comparisons, there are so many other variables there. But using the 250 game rule you expect you are getting a 25/25 guy out of Iginla. He ended up being so much more. My point is that it took a lot of character to do the work required to improve and that he was a player that wasn't restricted by the 250 game benchmark.

Well his 250 game happened in his fourth season when he scored 29-34 in 77 games. That's 31-36-67 pro-rated. Clearly far from his peak but still hardly a 25-25 guy.

Iginla's career 1300 points in 1554 games pro-rated to an 82 game season works out to be:

32-36-68

So pretty much by his 250 game he had established near exactly what his career average would become. Of course this included some early low seasons and late near-retirement seasons and in the middle he had his peak elite seasons. More interesting to point out than to draw any conclusions from.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Even if 250 games was the magic number... I don’t believe it is fair in Bennett’s case because he shouldn’t even be at 200 games yet. He should have spent at least 2 years in the AHL in my opinion. Instead, his development was stunted by playing in the bigs before he was ready. I think he will pull it all together, and confidence is a huge part of it.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

Even if 250 games was the magic number... I don’t believe it is fair in Bennett’s case because he shouldn’t even be at 200 games yet. He should have spent at least 2 years in the AHL in my opinion. Instead, his development was stunted by playing in the bigs before he was ready. I think he will pull it all together, and confidence is a huge part of it.

On top of this, they set him up for failure at the NHL level by playing him with absolutely terrible linemates.

We mock Edmonton (rightfully), but holy crap have we been just as guilty in mishandling a few of our 1st round picks (Baertschi and Bennett).

I hope the Flames course correct moving forward and stop stapling promising young forwards with over the hill, talent nullifying, craptastic veterans.

[yourbestfriend]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

Even if 250 games was the magic number... I don’t believe it is fair in Bennett’s case because he shouldn’t even be at 200 games yet. He should have spent at least 2 years in the AHL in my opinion. Instead, his development was stunted by playing in the bigs before he was ready. I think he will pull it all together, and confidence is a huge part of it.

Nobody cares if it's fair or not... the fact is that he's at a point where statistically speaking most players don't get dramatically better.

As for the Taylor Hall argument saying that he got better after 250 games.

First 246 games (4 seasons) - 0.91ppg
Next 283 games (including this season) - 0.88ppg
Career 0.90ppg

Even if you include this years insane season, he got statistically worse after his first 250 games.

[The Fonz]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

We mock Edmonton (rightfully), but holy crap have we been just as guilty in mishandling a few of our 1st round picks (Baertschi and Bennett).

Baertschi played a couple years of AHL, while Bennett didn't play any at all. If we mishandled both players... what is the correct way to handle blue chip prospects?

[the2bears]

^ Baertschi was a good prospect for the Flames, but "blue chip"?

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by yourbestfriend

Nobody cares if it's fair or not... the fact is that he's at a point where statistically speaking most players don't get dramatically better.

As for the Taylor Hall argument saying that he got better after 250 games.

First 246 games (4 seasons) - 0.91ppg
Next 283 games (including this season) - 0.88ppg
Career 0.90ppg

Even if you include this years insane season, he got statistically worse after his first 250 games.

Okay let me clarify since you seem to be emotionally invested in this and believe I am as well.

I don’t believe the statistic applies here.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

On top of this, they set him up for failure at the NHL level by playing him with absolutely terrible linemates.

We mock Edmonton (rightfully), but holy crap have we been just as guilty in mishandling a few of our 1st round picks (Baertschi and Bennett).

I hope the Flames course correct moving forward and stop stapling promising young forwards with over the hill, talent nullifying, craptastic veterans.

The better question might be whether the Flames handled Bennett properly. When Hartley was coaching he said that he needed to play Johnny and Monahan a lot to build up their confidence. He even talked about being careful not to just saddle them with older guys. He talked about how this was his strategy when he coached the Avalanche to let the young guys play and use their skills. Players have to be confident in order to be creative, feeling it believing in it, is all part of feeling confident.

I remember players encouraging Bennett to be low key when he scored those 4 goals, understandable but how does that affect a guys confidence compared to when you see Johnny absolutely excited after scoring a hard fought goal. Bennett needs to grow confidence and celebrate like he is part of the team, not like an outcast. During that spell when Bennett wasn't scoring any goals he played more like someone holding back than someone who was feeling it and bring excitement to his game.

I think we need to let Bennett play with good players and let him loose and see if he can raise it to another level. From what I have observed, he seems happier more confident when he is on the top line with Gaudreau.

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

From what I have observed, he seems happier more confident when he is on the top line with Gaudreau.

He was faster, that much was apparent. Night and day. I attribute that to a bump in confidence for sure.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Toonage

He was faster, that much was apparent. Night and day. I attribute that to a bump in confidence for sure.

Can't say it enough; He has to feel it and he has to have that excitement that breeds confidence. Just look at Theoren Fleury when he scored goals, he was absolutely feeling it and it was definitely contagious. I believe a lot of Bennett's problems are between his head, and to get past that we need to let him loose to see if he still has it in spades. I think you nailed it he plays better with more speed to his game.

[MarkGio]

I wish there were stats that tracked where penalties were taken and the situation (ie, PK, PP, EV), but I swear Sam Bennett only takes a penalty in the offensive zone.

[pepper24]

Originally Posted by edslunch

This debate is getting nowhere. Can we all at least agree that the coming season is critical for him, dare I say make or break relative to him becoming more than a disappointing third liner?

Make or break was last season for me. He went nearly 20 games to start the season without a point. Flames missed the playoffs from lack of secondary scoring which he was expected to be the catalyst. Curtis Lazar 2.0

[pepper24]

Originally Posted by MacDaddy77

biggest thing with bennett is he needs to stay out of the box. He hasn't played with any talent yet either but he takes way too many penalties. looking at Reinhart, Bennett and Draisaitl they have same games played but Bennett has 3X the Pim.

SB - GP 241 Pts 89 Pim 171
SR - GP 249 pts 140 Pim 44
LD - GP 269 pts 207 PIM 74


I think if the coach puts him in top 2 lines and gives him some talent to play with and PP 2 time he could get back to the same curve these other 2 are on so long as he stops taking stupid reaching penalties in the offensive zone

Maybe he can get to a Sam Reinhart level. The irony is I know a lot of Buffalo Sabres fans who think their Sam is a bust while Flames fans stay in denial and find ways to hope that Bennett can turn into a Reinhart.

Draisaitl is another level that neither Sam will get to. Elite player.

[The Boy Wonder]

Hopefully the new coach doesn't absolutely hamper his development the way GG did. Honestly if another coach with the initials GG runs a potential star out of town just because he refused to use him properly I'll be really mad.

I hope i'm right in just assuming all the people on CP clamouring for bennett to be traded are just impatient fans who don't know as much as hockey people who wouldn't cut bait on Bennett at this point.

[pepper24]

Originally Posted by The Boy Wonder

Hopefully the new coach doesn't absolutely hamper his development the way GG did. Honestly if another coach with the initials GG runs a potential star out of town just because he refused to use him properly I'll be really mad.

I hope i'm right in just assuming all the people on CP clamouring for bennett to be traded are just impatient fans who don't know as much as hockey people who wouldn't cut bait on Bennett at this point.

Other young players like Monahan, Gaudreau, Jankowski, Ferland, Hamilton, Tkachuk, Kulak all did fine under Gulutzan. Maybe it's more the player than the coach?

[Torch]

Bennett is 21. Sam looked great under Hartley. Gluegun stifled his creativity by making him play on the third line with subpar talent. Give the Kid a break, go pick on Brouwer.

[pepper24]

Originally Posted by Torch

Bennett is 21. Sam looked great under Hartley. Gluegun stifled his creativity by making him play on the third line with subpar talent. Give the Kid a break, go pick on Brouwer.

Nah, 3rd line was where he fit and that was his line to take charge of. Remember he started the year at center behind Monahan and Backlund.

After he failed at center, Jankowski took over and on wing there was no room on the top 6. Ferland had 20 goals on top line and why break up the 3M line. Unfortunately Jagr didn't pan out and Versteeg got hurt. Hathaway is a big drop off.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

From what I have observed, he seems happier more confident when he is on the top line with Gaudreau.

He might have been happy.
He was not productive.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Did you just start following the NHL this year? Or are you one of those fans who only follows the Flames?

Change of scenery trades happen all the time. The Flames may believe Bennett probably won't improve with the Flames, while another team may think he can improve with a reset. If that's the case, a trade will happen. There are many, many precedents.

You got me...

I’m aware they happen. I clearly state that GMs don’t pay assets for a struggling players potential. They pay market value. You want the Lazar return for Bennett? Talk about wasting an asset.