[Rumour] Kadri used his NTC to nix a trade to the Flames involving TJ Brodie

[Nelson]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

I don't think Neal should be written off at all. In the worst shooting percentage season of his career, he was on pace for 10 goals and 25 points in an injury-battered season. He needs to be better in every way but there were so many things working against him, and those figures are still well above replacement-level.

Even in his worst season, he had more goals than Connor Brown, too. Not saying Neal is better, but there are things to consider here.

This is a very good point. There's no way the Flames are going to be able to trade Neal after the season he just had anyways. They should just hope he enters camp in excellent physical condition, plays better, and has better puck luck this coming season. I think it might also be helpful to play him with players with better pace. If you put him with Mangiapane and Ryan, then he has faster players with some playmaking ability.

Gaudreau - Monahan - Lindholm
Tkachuk - Backlund - Bennett
Mangiapane - Ryan - Neal
Jankowski - Quine - Dube
LW - C - Czarnik

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

I don't think Neal should be written off at all. In the worst shooting percentage season of his career, he was on pace for 10 goals and 25 points in an injury-battered season. He needs to be better in every way but there were so many things working against him, and those figures are still well above replacement-level.

Even in his worst season, he had more goals than Connor Brown, too. Not saying Neal is better, but there are things to consider here.

While I agree with you that there is reason for hope that Neal will improve (and that is really the only option since trading him would be too expensive) I don’t know 10 goal pace Neal is above replacement level. The disengaged Neal we saw was pretty useless if not producing.

I don’t really know if things were working against him but I do believe there is a lot of pride there. And while I don’t agree with waiting to the last game to healthy scratch the guy, it might just be something that spurs him into having the offseason he needs.

30 goal Neal would be a boon to this team.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

While I agree with you that there is reason for hope that Neal will improve (and that is really the only option since trading him would be too expensive) I don’t know 10 goal pace Neal is above replacement level. The disengaged Neal we saw was pretty useless if not producing.

I don’t really know if things were working against him but I do believe there is a lot of pride there. And while I don’t agree with waiting to the last game to healthy scratch the guy, it might just be something that spurs him into having the offseason he needs.

30 goal Neal would be a boon to this team.

Hopefully disengaged was misinterpreted. If the long playoff runs have bitten into his will to work out in the off season as well as time to work out in the off season he may just not have had the wind to go that extra mile on the forecheck or finish a check.

Pinder said he's heard from a few that Neal is already all over it, so that's at least a good sign this early in the off season.

30 would be great yes ... but given how last year went I think I'd take 15.

[Strange Brew]

Disengaged in terms of his work ethic on the ice that I saw. Also a direct quote from Peters during the season that I recall, that they were starting to see signs of Neal being more “engaged” at the halfway point. I can’t speak to his off-season training or what caused his drop off as it would be all speculation.

15 goal Neal in a league where scoring is up, for a player who doesn’t seem to bring much beyond scoring isn’t really good enough IMO. He’s still at the front end of his contract and I think he can be better than that.

[Toonage]

Neal and Peters didn't get along. If he starts the season slowly he won't be given any rope and will be a healthy scratch before he knows it.

[ForeverFlameFan]

I know some of you may not agree with me and rightfully so, but Neal should at least get a few shifts a game still with Monahan and Gaudreau to try and boost some of his confidence. If he gets going he's a deadly shooter at the FO dot and also can score garbage goals like Monahan. Puck luck is only half of the story, he was atrocious last season and i hope the extra few weeks that we had off since we didn't get past the first round again will give Neal extra time to get himself into better shape in the offseason.

Better off keeping him for at least one more season before writing him off. Kind of funny a few of us were willing to give Brouwer a longer leash than James Neal, who clearly is the better player.

[neo45]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

I know some of you may not agree with me and rightfully so, but Neal should at least get a few shifts a game still with Monahan and Gaudreau to try and boost some of his confidence. If he gets going he's a deadly shooter at the FO dot and also can score garbage goals like Monahan. Puck luck is only half of the story, he was atrocious last season and i hope the extra few weeks that we had off since we didn't get past the first round again will give Neal extra time to get himself into better shape in the offseason.

Better off keeping him for at least one more season before writing him off. Kind of funny a few of us were willing to give Brouwer a longer leash than James Neal, who clearly is the better player.

Neal was worse than Brouwer last year I think

Why do you think he is clearly better? I don’t see anything good in his game. Brouwer seemed like a better skater and more physical player at least. Both were disasters offensively

[Flash Walken]

Yes, Neal was worse than brouwer. Imo, much worse.

I read all this talk about fitness or short off-season and I just shake my head. I don't think it was not having his sticks anymore either, it any other reason/excuse as to why he never seemed to skate hard or hustle back defensively or seemingly doing anything other than float.

Neal didn't look out of shape, he looked like he was phoning it in.

For me, the most troubling sign and why I think this is just a downhill trajectory for him going forward is the lack of puck skills he showed. Passes rolling off his stick, missing passes in his skates, flubbing knuckle pucks to the net, missing deflections and tips.

I remember Lanny once said that one year, his hands were just gone. He felt like he could still skate and hit and get around the ice, but his ability to handle the puck, seemingly overnight, was lost.

That has always stuck with me as I've watched players age over the last 20 or so years. From one year to the next, some guys just lose the ability to handle the puck at an NHL level. I feel like we watched it happen with Conroy, we watched it with staian, amonte. There are a long list of guys who could get up and down the ice but who found themselves out of an NHL job because of their ability to make and take plays with the puck dropped off the map.

A guy like Scott Gomez was a 60 point player at 28 years of age and was playing in the ECHL by 31.

That's the concern I have about Neal. He couldn't find any chemistry in the top 3 lines because he couldn't make plays with the puck.

It looks like his puck skills have left him, and they do t just magically return.

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

A guy like Scott Gomez was a 60 point player at 28 years of age and was playing in the ECHL by 31.

You make a number of fair points in your post but Gomez played in the ECHL when he was 31 because of the lockout. He was playing for his hometown Alaska Aces

He played four more NHL years after that, two of which were reasonably/somewhat productive

[Rando]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

A guy like Scott Gomez was a 60 point player at 28 years of age and was playing in the ECHL by 31.

..because of the lockout in 2012-2013 he decided to play in his in his home state of Alaska. He did the same thing during the 2004-2005 lockout. Gomez obviously deteriorated quickly over 2-3 seasons but stick to the facts.

[FlamesAddiction]

I tend to think Neal really was disengaged and it wasn't just a sudden loss of ability. He wasn't playing with the nasty edge he used to either which isn't an ability you just lose. Plus, as mentioned, he did pick up a bit in the final 25 games.

I think he assumed that he would be gifted a top six role and when that didn't happen, he went into a free fall.

If he can come in humbled and find his edge, I think there is a good chance he can find his game again. It's going to be up to him and his character though.

[PepsiFree]

Edit: said above

[David Struch]

I am sooooo looking forward to watching Giordano lay the body on Kadri.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I tend to think Neal really was disengaged and it wasn't just a sudden loss of ability. He wasn't playing with the nasty edge he used to either which isn't an ability you just lose. Plus, as mentioned, he did pick up a bit in the final 25 games.

I think he assumed that he would be gifted a top six role and when that didn't happen, he went into a free fall.

If he can come in humbled and find his edge, I think there is a good chance he can find his game again. It's going to be up to him and his character though.

Absolutely, that’s a good question. Once a guy reaches a certain point in his career, thinks he has proven everything he needs to, and is then again tasked with proving himself again, it’s not only could he, but also does he have the character?

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by David Struch

I am sooooo looking forward to watching Giordano lay the body on Kadri.

Having a player stealing the attention of the other team's best defenseman isn't a bad thing at all for the other players on that line though.

I am sure players not on his line like Mac and Rantanen aren't going to mind the additional powerplay time either when Kadri goads players to take penalties.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Not as some great defence of Scott Gomez, but he played in the ECHL during the lock out, specifically because it was his hometown team.

He wasn’t playing in the ECHL while his peers were playing in the NHL. And he did manage 34 points in 58 games in 14-15.

I mean, he was in the echl to train and show himself capable for another contract after it was apparent the habs were going to be buying him out.

He then got a near minimum 1 year deal after the buyout.

That 34 point season was the only time he topped 15 points for the rest of his career, spread over 5 teams.

The point being of course that Gomez struggled to remain relevant in the NHL after his 30th birthday despite 9 of his previous 10 seasons being a 40+ assist player.

Sounds pretty familiar to Neal's ten 20 goal seasons to me.

[combustiblefuel]

Originally Posted by neo45

Neal was worse than Brouwer last year I think

Why do you think he is clearly better? I don’t see anything good in his game. Brouwer seemed like a better skater and more physical player at least. Both were disasters offensively

Brouwer would fight too.

[Rando]

Gomez was in the ECHL because that's what he does during lock outs. You either didn't know that or purposely stripped all the context from it to prove your point

Though I guess when you're consistently talking down to people, typing "lol" to condensed it's not easy to admit you don't know what happened there and move on. The correct response to PepsiFre would've been "oops I didn't know that", not make up reasons about proving himself and working towards a new contract.

Helpful advice

[Flash Walken]

I wonder who the third team was.

Anyone want to speculate? Ottawa ended up with brown so that seems like the likeliest 3rd team, but I wonder if the flames would've been interested in moving frolik to the 3rd team in the same deal as well.

New Jersey maybe? They've been rumoured to be interested in Frolik.

Calgary gets: Kadri
Jersey gets: frolik, brown and retains 50% of Brodie's contract.
Toronto gets: Brodie @ 2.3, Jankowski

[savemedrzaius]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I wonder who the third team was.

Anyone want to speculate? Ottawa ended up with brown so that seems like the likeliest 3rd team, but I wonder if the flames would've been interested in moving frolik to the 3rd team in the same deal as well.

New Jersey maybe? They've been rumoured to be interested in Frolik.

Calgary gets: Kadri
Jersey gets: frolik, brown and retains 50% of Brodie's contract.
Toronto gets: Brodie @ 2.3, Jankowski

You dump two contracts you want to get rid of and get the best player in the deal?

Jersey takes on Froliks contract AND 50% of Brodie together? Seems like Jerseys purpose in this trade is just to help the Flames. They don't get much out of it.

Of the Flames deal was true in guessing it was likely Brodie and Bennet. Jankowski and Kerfoot are not even close.