Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community
Old 01-07-2025, 12:56 PM   #5281
ben voyonsdonc
Franchise Player
 
ben voyonsdonc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Calgary, AB
Exp:
Default

$340m over 7 is a lot of money. Going into the offseason, I was thinking it would be closer to $340m over 10. If he won’t sign for $420m over 10, it just isn’t worth it. I don’t really want to be paying much more than $40m for a 35 year old Vlad. I supported backing up the Brinks truck to Vlad but he wants two Brinks trucks and I don’t think that makes any sense.

It’s likely time to burn this thing to the ground with a purpose. The window has closed on this iteration of the team. Atkins and Shapiro blew it by shifting philosophies to a god damn run prevention model mid window and wasted the opportunity to capitalize on the time we had before Bo and Guerrero’s got paid.

Now it is time to cut our losses and get out before we bury ourselves in a deep hole. A well done rebuild (kind of tough with a bottom tier GM like Atkins) should take 3-4 years…ownership is willing to spend but we need to have a new young, cost controlled foundation in place to add free agents to. Building a team around high cost free agents isn’t sustainable unless you are a team like the Yankees or Dodgers.
ben voyonsdonc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2025, 12:59 PM   #5282
SuperMatt18
Franchise Player
 
SuperMatt18's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Calgary, AB
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluejays View Post
Not sure what to think about Moncata. I had to look up his stats. On one hand he's had a decent average the past few years (aside from 2022), but on the other hand he's a strikeout machine. So he does make contact and get the ball in play or he's striking out. I suppose ultimately he's not a bad hitter. No idea about his defence? If he's average defensively, sign him up.
And IMO Strikeout's still tend to get too much focus.

If a guy has a decent average still why do I care if he strikes out. A grounder to the short stop or a strike out still has the same outcome. I'd rather a guy be a strikeout machine than a hit into a double play machine.
SuperMatt18 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to SuperMatt18 For This Useful Post:
Old 01-07-2025, 01:22 PM   #5283
JTech780
Powerplay Quarterback
 
JTech780's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Exp:
Default

MLB is a pay to win league, you have to back up three brinks trucks for Vladdy if thats what itakes to sign him. If you want to compete with the Yankees, Dodgers, Red Sox, Phillies, etc., you have to be willing to spend with the big boys. Rogers has the money, they are worth more than the Steinbrener's.

Shapiro and Atkins have just made some big mistakes when it comes to spending, everyone and their grandma knew the Springer contract was horrible, and it keeps gettting worse. The Ryu signing was terrible.

If you don't want to spend the big dollars you better be great at drafting and developing talent and signing that talent early. Shapiro and Atkins fail in this regard as well.
JTech780 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to JTech780 For This Useful Post:
Old 01-07-2025, 01:27 PM   #5284
KelVarnsen
Franchise Player
 
KelVarnsen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Apartment 5A
Exp:
Default

A rebuild led by Atkins would challenge the White Sox for worst record in MLB history
KelVarnsen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2025, 01:30 PM   #5285
bluejays
Franchise Player
 
bluejays's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Exp:
Default

This is the first "leak" we've heard about any negotiation taking place. I'd wager that it's a done deal now that some figures have been put out there. With Vlad's propensity to put on weight, I've said it before and will say it again, he has the possibility of going the Prince Fielder route. Giving him a long term deal is a bad idea. But if you do 7 at a very high AAV, I'd be on board given you wouldn't be stuck with him long term. Even give him an opt out at year 5. He's got 4 or 5 good years anyway. Someone will give him a $500M contract I'm sure, but I hope it's not us with the term. If he doesn't accept, deal him. I'd guess they do a 9 year deal and call it a day.
bluejays is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2025, 01:45 PM   #5286
Patek23
Franchise Player
 
Patek23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: ---
Exp:
Default

Vlad is demanding such an exorbitant offer because, for two straight offseasons, this team has consistently leaked how much they’re willing to pay other players—only to strike out every time. Meanwhile, they’ve failed to come to the table with a serious offer for him until now.

If I were in his position, I wouldn’t budge either. Another team will undoubtedly meet his price. This is what happens when an organization operates like a complete joke, with a propaganda-driven media arm boasting about its willingness to pay incoming free agents, yet refusing to invest in retaining its homegrown talent.
Patek23 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Patek23 For This Useful Post:
Old 01-07-2025, 01:54 PM   #5287
Roof-Daddy
Franchise Player
 
Roof-Daddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patek23 View Post
Vlad is demanding such an exorbitant offer because, for two straight offseasons, this team has consistently leaked how much they’re willing to pay other players—only to strike out every time. Meanwhile, they’ve failed to come to the table with a serious offer for him until now.

If I were in his position, I wouldn’t budge either. Another team will undoubtedly meet his price. This is what happens when an organization operates like a complete joke, with a propaganda-driven media arm boasting about its willingness to pay incoming free agents, yet refusing to invest in retaining its homegrown talent.
Fans like you would be the leading the lynch mob if they gave Vladdy hundreds of millions of dollars after declining performance for 3 straight seasons and a 1.3 WAR season in 2023.

The players the Jays offered that money to are much more consistent than Vlad has ever shown in his career.

Problem is, he THINKS he's as good as they are and over values himself.
Roof-Daddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2025, 02:53 PM   #5288
JTech780
Powerplay Quarterback
 
JTech780's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy View Post
Fans like you would be the leading the lynch mob if they gave Vladdy hundreds of millions of dollars after declining performance for 3 straight seasons and a 1.3 WAR season in 2023.

The players the Jays offered that money to are much more consistent than Vlad has ever shown in his career.

Problem is, he THINKS he's as good as they are and over values himself.
The thing is that since 2021 Vladdy has been a top 10 offensive player in all of baseball, maybe he isn't in the same category as Judge, Ohtani and Soto, but he is in the same category as Betts, Harper, Ramirez.

The Ohtani and Soto deals have changed the landscape for deals going forward. If Vladdy goes to free agency next year, it's going to be him and Kyle Tucker who teams are going to be fighting over, Tucker will be 29 and Vladdy will be 26. Vladdy is easily going to get $450m.

Vladdy showed what he is fully capable of in 2021, putting up offensive numbers that rival Soto's best season. While he hasn't put up numbers similar since he has still been a very good offensive player, and IMO the type of player that you do shell out top end money for.

If they let Vladdy walk or trade him because they aren't willing to go to $500m, then this is a franchise that will never have top end talent or will never be able to keep top end talent and franchise that will forever be on the outside looking in as far as competing for championships.
JTech780 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2025, 03:16 PM   #5289
ben voyonsdonc
Franchise Player
 
ben voyonsdonc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Calgary, AB
Exp:
Default

I really don’t understand Moncada as an option. A guy who averages a strikeout a game but has little power upside…he has 93 career home runs. He’s about a 15-20 home run guy and is consistently injured.

Is he really a better option than Clement? Clement is cheaper with two arb years and has better bat to ball skills and similar power.

I don’t think we should signing FA just for the sake of signing them.
ben voyonsdonc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2025, 03:17 PM   #5290
SuperMatt18
Franchise Player
 
SuperMatt18's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Calgary, AB
Exp:
Default

I think they should offer him the $450 x 9 with a player opt out after 5 seasons.

If he opts out it's not the end of the World, he's opting out at 32 years old and you let somebody else overpay for his 32-40 year old seasons.
SuperMatt18 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to SuperMatt18 For This Useful Post:
Old 01-07-2025, 03:24 PM   #5291
Roof-Daddy
Franchise Player
 
Roof-Daddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JTech780 View Post
The thing is that since 2021 Vladdy has been a top 10 offensive player in all of baseball, maybe he isn't in the same category as Judge, Ohtani and Soto, but he is in the same category as Betts, Harper, Ramirez.

The Ohtani and Soto deals have changed the landscape for deals going forward. If Vladdy goes to free agency next year, it's going to be him and Kyle Tucker who teams are going to be fighting over, Tucker will be 29 and Vladdy will be 26. Vladdy is easily going to get $450m.

Vladdy showed what he is fully capable of in 2021, putting up offensive numbers that rival Soto's best season. While he hasn't put up numbers similar since he has still been a very good offensive player, and IMO the type of player that you do shell out top end money for.

If they let Vladdy walk or trade him because they aren't willing to go to $500m, then this is a franchise that will never have top end talent or will never be able to keep top end talent and franchise that will forever be on the outside looking in as far as competing for championships.
The downward trajectory Vladdy had is what I was talking about. Yeah he looks like a top 10 hitter i baseball when you include his MVP caliber 2021. Problem is he got worse the next year, and then even worse the next year after that, to the point where he was basically a 1 WAR overweight 1B that provided negative defense and baserunning and constantly made ridiculous mental mistakes that cost the team dearly.

How in the world could the Jays FO justify giving him a mega deal any time during 2022, 2023 or 2024?

But luckily for Vlad he went on a tear for the last half of 2024, and now that all the fans are mad at the FO for missing the playoffs last year, they want to blame them for not signing that guy to a massive deal when he looked to be circling the drain. I think most fans sentiments during the particularly bad 2023 season was "thank god we didn't sign Vladdy to a mega deal after 2021" I know that's what I was thinking.

Of course they're all changing their tune now after he was suddenly the best hitter in baseball last summer and fall.
Roof-Daddy is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Roof-Daddy For This Useful Post:
Old 01-07-2025, 04:04 PM   #5292
flambers
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Calgary
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluejays View Post
This is the first "leak" we've heard about any negotiation taking place. I'd wager that it's a done deal now that some figures have been put out there.
Not sure about a done deal, Media type's are saying they are at least $100M apart.

As for Bo, media types are saying again he has no interest in re-signing with the Jays.
flambers is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to flambers For This Useful Post:
Old 01-07-2025, 08:44 PM   #5293
bluejays
Franchise Player
 
bluejays's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by flambers View Post
Not sure about a done deal, Media type's are saying they are at least $100M apart.

As for Bo, media types are saying again he has no interest in re-signing with the Jays.
Done deal is a bit much from me but I truly think the fact that it’s out there that they’re negotiating says to me it’s just a matter of time where the pressure ramps up on Atkins to not drop the biggest ball. I think it’ll be done in a week.
bluejays is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2025, 08:46 PM   #5294
bluejays
Franchise Player
 
bluejays's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy View Post
The downward trajectory Vladdy had is what I was talking about. Yeah he looks like a top 10 hitter i baseball when you include his MVP caliber 2021. Problem is he got worse the next year, and then even worse the next year after that, to the point where he was basically a 1 WAR overweight 1B that provided negative defense and baserunning and constantly made ridiculous mental mistakes that cost the team dearly.

How in the world could the Jays FO justify giving him a mega deal any time during 2022, 2023 or 2024?

But luckily for Vlad he went on a tear for the last half of 2024, and now that all the fans are mad at the FO for missing the playoffs last year, they want to blame them for not signing that guy to a massive deal when he looked to be circling the drain. I think most fans sentiments during the particularly bad 2023 season was "thank god we didn't sign Vladdy to a mega deal after 2021" I know that's what I was thinking.

Of course they're all changing their tune now after he was suddenly the best hitter in baseball last summer and fall.
I’m not making excuses for him but it’s been rumoured his mom was very sick for awhile there. Not sure what the current status is of that but that would mess with someone and could be a reason for the mental shortcomings.
bluejays is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2025, 11:32 PM   #5295
JTech780
Powerplay Quarterback
 
JTech780's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Exp:
Default

Hector Gomez now saying that the Jays are interested in Kenley Jansen.
JTech780 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2025, 10:12 AM   #5296
Strange Brew
Franchise Player
 
Strange Brew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JTech780 View Post
Apparently the Jays offer to Santander is 4 years $82m. Thats a deal I can live with. Sure it’s a year too long and couple million too much, but that’s the nature of free agency especially for the Blue Jays.
I'm on the fence about this guy. Big power numbers for sure.

But horrible defence, lots of strikeouts and an abysmal on base percentage.
Strange Brew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2025, 11:19 AM   #5297
JTech780
Powerplay Quarterback
 
JTech780's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Brew View Post
I'm on the fence about this guy. Big power numbers for sure.

But horrible defence, lots of strikeouts and an abysmal on base percentage.
Yeah if you sign Santander you signing him to be your primary DH, with occasional starts in the OF, sort of like Joc Pederson. What he will bring is a power bat to a team that only had one player girls more than 20 HR and drive in more than 60 runs.

Regardless of what happens with Vladdy they still need to field a team and have players who can take major league at bats.
JTech780 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2025, 11:23 AM   #5298
JTech780
Powerplay Quarterback
 
JTech780's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Exp:
Default

I think ship has sailed on signing Vladdy to a long term deal, I think just like Bo he wants out and doesn’t like the way this front office has treated him or his friend.

The best decision now is to trade Vladdy, but I don’t think that is going to happen, I think this front office is going to run it back one more time with this team and let everyone walk for nothing in the offseason.
JTech780 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2025, 11:29 AM   #5299
bizaro86
Franchise Player
 
bizaro86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JTech780 View Post
I think ship has sailed on signing Vladdy to a long term deal, I think just like Bo he wants out and doesn’t like the way this front office has treated him or his friend.

The best decision now is to trade Vladdy, but I don’t think that is going to happen, I think this front office is going to run it back one more time with this team and let everyone walk for nothing in the offseason.
Yeah. When you think about how close they were to winning the WS last year it'd be a shame to trade stars for prospects at this point and give up the last year of controlled contracts on this build. They're probably only 1 signing away from being able to beat the Dodgers 4/7.

---Atkins, probably
bizaro86 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2025, 01:35 PM   #5300
JTech780
Powerplay Quarterback
 
JTech780's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Exp:
Default

I wonder if the Jays could get Ronny Mauricio from the Mets in a Vladdy trade.
JTech780 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:18 AM.

Calgary Flames
2024-25




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright Calgarypuck 2021