Ring Road To Nowhere

[Acey]

To clarify, Glenmore Trail (officially as of Thursday) now starts and ends at Sarcee. What was previously Glenmore Trail west of Sarcee going past Discovery Ridge and becoming Highway 8 is now part of Stoney Trail. So any references to Glenmore now refer only to stuff east of Sarcee Trail, i.e. not part of the ring road.

Originally Posted by Ducay

Changing that last minute is kinda a big deal, no?

Yes. Big deal. I've sent a few emails to try to get some understanding of how this happened but for it to actually go beyond the point of pouring the barrier than removing it is baffling.

[Ducay]

Originally Posted by Acey

Stoney/Tsuut'ina Trail speed limit unaffected. It's a short stretch of EB Glenmore, which is already only 80 kph, that will be reduced.

It is not designed for 110. The section we're talking about is Glenmore (the rest of which is 80 kph), and all traffic has just come off of either ramps or flyovers so is just getting up to speed.
.

I almost feel like reducing it from 80kmph is a bigger deal than, say, 90 to 80/70.

I can guarantee this option to allow weaves was considered in the design phase and rejected for a reason. Boggles the mind we paid for all that material and labour for it to be destroyed days later.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by Acey

Stoney/Tsuut'ina Trail speed limit unaffected. It's a short stretch of EB Glenmore, which is already only 80 kph, that will be reduced.

I don't think this makes it any better. So Glenmore towards stoney will go: 80 -> 60 -> 100?

[Acey]

Originally Posted by Weitz

I don't think this makes it any better. So Glenmore towards stoney will go: 80 -> 60 -> 100?

If by "Glenmore towards Stoney" you mean westbound traffic then the answer is no, as westbound is unaffected.

I feel like I haven't made this clear. The southbound Sarcee to eastbound Glenmore flyover, the big one, is already at a design speed of 70 kph based on its radius and is therefore posted at 60 kph. That flyover is now the beginning of eastbound Glenmore. So the limit will remain at 60 until under the 37 St bridge when it goes back up to 80 to match westbound and the rest of Glenmore. No speed "reduction", just an extension of the duration before the speed limit off the flyover increases to 80.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by Acey

If by "Glenmore towards Stoney" you mean westbound traffic then the answer is no, as westbound is unaffected.

I feel like I haven't made this clear. The southbound Sarcee to eastbound Glenmore flyover, the big one, is already at a design speed of 70 kph based on its radius and is therefore posted at 60 kph. That flyover is now the beginning of eastbound Glenmore. So the limit will remain at 60 until under the 37 St bridge when it goes back up to 80 to match westbound and the rest of Glenmore. No speed "reduction", just an extension of the duration before the speed limit off the flyover increases to 80.

Gotcha that makes more sense. Thanks for all this info.

[Hemi-Cuda]

The more I read this thread, the more I'm thankful to not live in in the SW nor know anyone who does

[Acey]

I mean, I dunno. When the 2009 Tsuu T'ina deal failed the city/province were seriously looking at somehow trying to fix Macleod, Anderson, 14 St, and the Glenmore Causeway and repurposing them as the southwest ring road. The alternative was blowing up Lakeview or tunneling at a billion bucks a kilometer.

You wanna talk about hating life...

Ultimately we spent a couple hundred million to acquire land from Tsuu T'ina in the 2013 deal, they received more Crown land on the west side of the reserve than we took for the road, and now have a freeway drawing traffic to a new development that's already popping off with that Costco. As for Calgarians, aside from the relative few in Cedarbrae, Woodbine et al. that now have a freeway in their backyard, life gets much easier with an alternative to god forsaken 14 St. Win-win, I'd say.

[red sky]

So to confirm, the 69th street overpass should be open on October 1st as well?

[Acey]

Originally Posted by red sky

So to confirm, the 69th street overpass should be open on October 1st as well?

Yes traffic should be going over the bridge on Thursday. Still lots of finishing work going on there and lane closures so traffic won't be totally fixed but should be much better once it gets on the bridge.

[Lubicon]

Originally Posted by Acey

If by "Glenmore towards Stoney" you mean westbound traffic then the answer is no, as westbound is unaffected.

I feel like I haven't made this clear. The southbound Sarcee to eastbound Glenmore flyover, the big one, is already at a design speed of 70 kph based on its radius and is therefore posted at 60 kph. That flyover is now the beginning of eastbound Glenmore. So the limit will remain at 60 until under the 37 St bridge when it goes back up to 80 to match westbound and the rest of Glenmore. No speed "reduction", just an extension of the duration before the speed limit off the flyover increases to 80.

Thanks Acey.

But EB coming along Stoney/onto Glenmore the road will slow from 100 (Stoney) >80 (?) ~under the interchange complex) >60 (east of interchange) then back to 80 after 37th will it not?

What a great idea. Nobody drove this stretch at 60 when it was a construction zone but people will do it once the road is finished? Haha. CPS/bylaw services are going to have a field day here.

[you&me]

Originally Posted by Acey

If by "Glenmore towards Stoney" you mean westbound traffic then the answer is no, as westbound is unaffected.

I feel like I haven't made this clear. The southbound Sarcee to eastbound Glenmore flyover, the big one, is already at a design speed of 70 kph based on its radius and is therefore posted at 60 kph. That flyover is now the beginning of eastbound Glenmore. So the limit will remain at 60 until under the 37 St bridge when it goes back up to 80 to match westbound and the rest of Glenmore. No speed "reduction", just an extension of the duration before the speed limit off the flyover increases to 80.

I've commented several times before about how overbuilt some of these interchanges, bridges, etc seem to be... You mean to tell me that massive, huge, sweeping flyover from SB Sarcee to EB Glenmore will only be 60 kph? They had (and seemed to use) all of the space in the world and we still have a section of high capacity road that goes 80 > 60 > 80?

[Acey]

I suppose. Flyover speeds in general are very conservative in the Alberta highway design guide for a given radius, maybe because it's winter for 6 months of the year and people suck at driving. Bit of an elevation change on there too, sightlines might be a contributing factor. The other issue is that neither Sarcee nor Glenmore are considered to be freeways, but rather expressways and therefore not "high capacity" as only Stoney, Deerfoot, Henday and maybe Sherwood Park Freeway even meet the criteria anywhere in the province. A technicality perhaps. You're free to take that flyover at 100 kph and any modern car will have no problem doing it, but CPS will be camping at the other end. Stoney Trail, in the northbound to westbound (and eastbound to southbound) direction makes the same 90° turn through that interchange at a wider radius and is therefore 100 kph throughout. Look at the crappy flyover from SB Crowchild to EB Glenmore and what that does at rush hour. That's why the new ones are huge.

I don't even turn off cruise control going through the flyovers at Deerfoot/22X.

[Lubicon]

Originally Posted by Acey

I suppose. Flyover speeds in general are very conservative in the Alberta highway design guide for a given radius, maybe because it's winter for 6 months of the year and people suck at driving. Bit of an elevation change on there too, sightlines might be a contributing factor. The other issue is that neither Sarcee nor Glenmore are considered to be freeways, but rather expressways and therefore not "high capacity" as only Stoney, Deerfoot, Henday and maybe Sherwood Park Freeway even meet the criteria anywhere in the province. A technicality perhaps. You're free to take that flyover at 100 kph and any modern car will have no problem doing it, but CPS will be camping at the other end. Stoney Trail, in the northbound to westbound (and eastbound to southbound) direction makes the same 90° turn through that interchange at a wider radius and is therefore 100 kph throughout. Look at the crappy flyover from SB Crowchild to EB Glenmore and what that does at rush hour. That's why the new ones are huge.

I don't even turn off cruise control going through the flyovers at Deerfoot/22X.

There's some head scratchers out there to be sure. This one at AHD / Manning Freeway in Edmonton is limited to 70 on the offramps even though they are pretty long radius. They drive me nuts.


https://www.google.ca/maps/@53.63830...7i13312!8i6656

[Brendone]

Originally Posted by Acey

You're free to take that flyover at 100 kph and any modern car will have no problem doing it, but CPS will be camping at the other end.

Always wondered about this? Can they “enforce” ramps speed signs? Haven’t found the Alberta traffic regulations but there’s a discussion on Reddit regarding changes to Edmonton ramp speeds where someone posted this

Yellow/black speed signs on exit ramps are not enforceable by photo radar or tickets. They are "advisory" in nature, and not "regulatory". Some people may not be aware of this. The only speed limit signs that can be enforced are white/black speed limit signs

https://www.reddit.com/r/Edmonton/co...p_speed_signs/

[Lubicon]

Originally Posted by Brendone

Always wondered about this? Can they “enforce” ramps speed signs? Haven’t found the Alberta traffic regulations but there’s a discussion on Reddit regarding changes to Edmonton ramp speeds where someone posted this



https://www.reddit.com/r/Edmonton/co...p_speed_signs/

Only the white speed signs are enforceable, the yellow/black ones are advisory only - this applies everywhere in the province. I suppose technically you could be ticketed for careless/unsafe driving if the sign was advisory only and you were exceeding that speed (but less than the posted limit) and the police felt you were doing so unsafely.

[MacDaddy77]

Coming back from South AB tomorrow. Is NB Macleod to WB 22x ramp open now or is it that u turn from EB 22x still?

If open is it obvious or does it sneak up on you? what lane do I need to be in as I pass Chapparral?

[Acey]

Originally Posted by MacDaddy77

Coming back from South AB tomorrow. Is NB Macleod to WB 22x ramp open now or is it that u turn from EB 22x still?

Not open. Still the U-turn, so be in the right lane on Macleod to exit east and then jet across everyone to make the u-turn. They have started paving the NB-WB flyover so in a few weeks it'll probably be done but they might be waiting on the bridge over top of Macleod after paving.

Originally Posted by Lubicon

Only the white speed signs are enforceable, the yellow/black ones are advisory only - this applies everywhere in the province. I suppose technically you could be ticketed for careless/unsafe driving if the sign was advisory only and you were exceeding that speed (but less than the posted limit) and the police felt you were doing so unsafely.

Flyover speeds at Sarcee/Glenmore will be white signs. The SB-EB Sarcee to Glenmore flyover is, at the request of Alberta Transportation posted at a lower speed than would otherwise be allowed by its radius per the design guide. My guess is that it's because a flyover of this caliber does not typically connect 2 roads with a limit of 80 kph.

Originally Posted by Lubicon

But EB coming along Stoney/onto Glenmore the road will slow from 100 (Stoney) >80 (?) ~under the interchange complex) >60 (east of interchange) then back to 80 after 37th will it not?

It's 100 on mainline Stoney then 60 (white signs) eastbound through the interchange then back to 80 at whatever point KGL decides. It sounds whack on paper but actually driving through the interchange it makes 1000% sense why it's 60. It'd be potential carnage on the bridge with people going up that hill at 100 and merging traffic from Westhills Way.

Originally Posted by Lubicon

There's some head scratchers out there to be sure. This one at AHD / Manning Freeway in Edmonton is limited to 70 on the offramps even though they are pretty long radius. They drive me nuts.

Yeah I just checked that one, design speed of 80 and therefore posted at 70 - almost always 10 under to account for the fact that people speed. Frustrating for sure.

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by Ducay

I almost feel like reducing it from 80kmph is a bigger deal than, say, 90 to 80/70.

I can guarantee this option to allow weaves was considered in the design phase and rejected for a reason. Boggles the mind we paid for all that material and labour for it to be destroyed days later.

I drove SB Sarcee to EB Glenmore to Crowchild yesterday and saw someone go all the way across from the EB Glenmore ramp to the 37 St exit ramp. We were only going 60 because of the construction speed limit and it STILL looked like it's going to be a complete and total mess to allow that weaving.

This is just bad. They should have designed a way to get to 37 St using the existing flyover without having to weave across like six lanes of traffic.

[Mazrim]

Originally Posted by Acey

I had previously said such a drastic change on a billion dollar project could not possibly be occurring in the final week of a 4 year construction period, but I was wrong. Yeah you can lower speed limits through there and I guess it fixes it. But good God how do you make that decision in the last minute after pouring 800 meters of constant slope barrier and nuking it days later.

Sounds like politics to me. Talk about a brutal decision.

[powderjunkie]

Unless they gave permanent speed cameras this is going to be a gong show of speed differentials.

Over/under big accidents per month?


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