[Rumour] Kadri used his NTC to nix a trade to the Flames involving TJ Brodie

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by N-E-B

Maybe I’m crazy but I think Monahan is better than every single centre on the St. Louis Blues (yes, including O’Reilly) and they just won the Stanley Cup. The Flames need to upgrade at #2C, Monahan is a solid 1C. No, he’s not Crosby but very few teams have a player of his caliber and none of them won the cup this year.

Wow. You’re crazy.

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by N-E-B

Maybe I’m crazy but I think Monahan is better than every single centre on the St. Louis Blues (yes, including O’Reilly) and they just won the Stanley Cup. The Flames need to upgrade at #2C, Monahan is a solid 1C. No, he’s not Crosby but very few teams have a player of his caliber and none of them won the cup this year.

That's a very interesting opinion. I suppose it's what metrics/attributes of play you are comparing when you say 'better'. I would argue that Monahan may be better in areas like scoring than all the blues' centers. However, I would consider o'reilly, schenn at the very least are better defensively, along the walls, and driving transition with the puck on their stick.

The OP of the "Reimagining the Top 9" thread here makes a very interesting point that Monahan may have gotten away with deferring to Gaudreau for much of his career for carrying the puck up the ice, playmaking, etc. If Peters decides to try separating Monahan/Gaudreau, perhaps we will get to see Monahan grow these aspects of his game. In his draft year, Monahan was ranked as one of the, if not the, best play maker in the OHL in his draft (by OHL coaches if I recall correctly). Maybe he's gone under the radar in this regard, as he's playing with one of the truly NHL elite as far as playmaking goes, but would be forced to do more when separated from Gaudreau.

I also find that o'really & schenn are better skaters and/or higher motor type players, making them more effective 2-way players.

[Bonded]

Jankowski + Brodie for Kadri and Brown would have been such a solid deal for the Flames.

[PegCityFlamesFan]

And yet it didnt happen so I don't get dwelling over it.

[HitterD]

Originally Posted by PegCityFlamesFan

And yet it didnt happen so I don't get dwelling over it.

Well to be fair he is dwelling on it in a thread dedicated to discussion about the rumoured trade and rumoured NTC Kadri refused to waive. Seems like the best place to do so. What else are you expecting in this thread?

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by N-E-B

Maybe I’m crazy but I think Monahan is better than every single centre on the St. Louis Blues (yes, including O’Reilly) and they just won the Stanley Cup. The Flames need to upgrade at #2C, Monahan is a solid 1C. No, he’s not Crosby but very few teams have a player of his caliber and none of them won the cup this year.

No maybe about it LOL.

Monny does one thing particularly well: great shooter.

He doesn't play a shut down centre. He doesn't get matched up against another teams top offensive centre man.

You are only looking at points. There is much more to judging a hockey player than just looking at the points they score.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Bonded

Jankowski + Brodie for Kadri and Brown would have been such a solid deal for the Flames.

Yes, even though the rumoured deal had Brown going to a third team as payment for retaining some of Brodie's cap hit.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

...Monny does one thing particularly well: great shooter...

This is false.

[Monahammer]

Peak summer= Monahan detractors come out in full force.

Monahan is better than Schenn, without a doubt, full stop. O'Reilly I can see an argument for, but I would still take Monahan who is younger and has shown more potential. Heavy underrating going on around here because one bad playoff showing (out of three appearances; not that we should be picking on anyone at all but Johnny is much more of a playoff ghost, unfortunately.)

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Peak summer= Monahan detractors come out in full force.

Monahan is better than Schenn, without a doubt, full stop. O'Reilly I can see an argument for, but I would still take Monahan who is younger and has shown more potential. Heavy underrating going on around here because one bad playoff showing (out of three appearances; not that we should be picking on anyone at all but Johnny is much more of a playoff ghost, unfortunately.)

Sean Monahan is 24-years old. O'Reilly is 28. Prior to this last year's run he had played a grand total of seven playoff games, and that was five years ago. It was still very much an open question as to what sort of playoff legacy O'Reilly would cement for himself before this season. I don't believe for a second that the questions surrounding Monahan have been answered yet.

[The Yen Man]

O'Reilly before their last run to the cup was in the same conversation as guys like Duchene in that they were good centres that never went anywhere. It took him until 28 to have one crazy run to elevate him from good centre to great centre. And who knows, could just be a one year wonder.

All I know is, I would not trade Monahan for O'Reilly, one for one.

[Calgary4LIfe]

The problem with Monahan is that he plays with Gaudreau. Gaudreau likes to carry the puck a lot, but Monahan is quite good at this himself. Monahan can drive his own line very easily, and I have often expressed this opinion.


Kadri is NOT going to improve that top line. Absolutely not. He is not more dynamic than Monahan. Monahan's ability to create plays is at a very high level, he is just the complete anti-Edmonton type of player in that he never does toe drags, so he doesn't look flashy. What he does is consistently makes the right decisions in the offensive zone, and is incredibly underrated as a playmaker and as a guy you can safely rely on for zone entries. He just happens to play with Gaudreau who is very flashy, and who loves handling the puck.


Lindholm needs to be tried at centre. I will also argue that Bennett - if given decent enough linemates (not named Brouwer or Neal) - can function as a really good centre if given the rope to grow into it.



At the very least, acquiring a good #2 centre is NOT an impossible task, especially given that the Flames are deep defensively and this is what you often see being traded for #2 defencemen. #1 defencemen - of which Monahan is unquestionably one of - is what is very difficult to acquire.


As for Monahan not having a particularly good playoffs, well, so what honestly? Take a look at the Pens. As someone who loves hockey pools, let me tell you about taking Crosby or Malkin - but not both - in the playoffs. Often the opposing team finds a way to neutralize ONE of them, but not both. I know this very well since I lost a playoff pool one year despite having a healthy lead and going into it with Crosby - and in that final series Malkin was the beneficiary of inadequate depth on the defensive side of things and blew past Crosby (and me in the pool).


There may not be anything wrong with the Flames on paper, actually. This could just be growing pains as they mature as a team. I would like to add a higher scoring #2 center, I would like to add some more grit to this team as long as it is wrapped up with some skill and speed as well. However, maybe this team is just an inexperienced young team, and they just got rattled by the pushback of the 'easy 8th seed'.


Tampa lost in 4 straight. I don't imagine they have made drastic changes (other than trying to solve their cap issues). They just had a bad playoffs, even though they are a more mature team than Calgary.


I just saw a team that got out-coached and rattled in the playoffs. That's all. This isn't a team you blow up and start the rebuild over, or trade the #1 centre (a bona fide #1 centre by the way!) because he hasn't performed well this past playoffs. Those are knee jerk reactions that guarantee you do worse in the short term, but without any guarantee in the slightest that you are going to find a way to improve on Monahan long-term.



If the salary cap allowed it, I would be 100% confident in having the exact same team returning for a year and see what they could do with a bit more experience. Doesn't mean that there aren't holes on the team, but this team is a very strong team even with their holes, and those holes are neither impossible nor unrealistic to fill (size/grit/depth and a #2 centre capable of pushing Backlund down).


An alternate to this is that maybe you just need to acquire a strong #3 centre who is really good defensively, and utilize Backlund more in the offensive zone. I mean, Backlund is absolutely magical in his ability to generate offence even though he is often buried in usage. Maybe if you offload some of that defensive zone utilization, you would see a marked improvement in the 2nd line scoring?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

The problem with Monahan is that he plays with Gaudreau. Gaudreau likes to carry the puck a lot, but Monahan is quite good at this himself. Monahan can drive his own line very easily, and I have often expressed this opinion.


Kadri is NOT going to improve that top line. Absolutely not. He is not more dynamic than Monahan. Monahan's ability to create plays is at a very high level, he is just the complete anti-Edmonton type of player in that he never does toe drags, so he doesn't look flashy. What he does is consistently makes the right decisions in the offensive zone, and is incredibly underrated as a playmaker and as a guy you can safely rely on for zone entries. He just happens to play with Gaudreau who is very flashy, and who loves handling the puck.


Lindholm needs to be tried at centre. I will also argue that Bennett - if given decent enough linemates (not named Brouwer or Neal) - can function as a really good centre if given the rope to grow into it.



At the very least, acquiring a good #2 centre is NOT an impossible task, especially given that the Flames are deep defensively and this is what you often see being traded for #2 defencemen. #1 defencemen - of which Monahan is unquestionably one of - is what is very difficult to acquire.


As for Monahan not having a particularly good playoffs, well, so what honestly? Take a look at the Pens. As someone who loves hockey pools, let me tell you about taking Crosby or Malkin - but not both - in the playoffs. Often the opposing team finds a way to neutralize ONE of them, but not both. I know this very well since I lost a playoff pool one year despite having a healthy lead and going into it with Crosby - and in that final series Malkin was the beneficiary of inadequate depth on the defensive side of things and blew past Crosby (and me in the pool).


There may not be anything wrong with the Flames on paper, actually. This could just be growing pains as they mature as a team. I would like to add a higher scoring #2 center, I would like to add some more grit to this team as long as it is wrapped up with some skill and speed as well. However, maybe this team is just an inexperienced young team, and they just got rattled by the pushback of the 'easy 8th seed'.


Tampa lost in 4 straight. I don't imagine they have made drastic changes (other than trying to solve their cap issues). They just had a bad playoffs, even though they are a more mature team than Calgary.


I just saw a team that got out-coached and rattled in the playoffs. That's all. This isn't a team you blow up and start the rebuild over, or trade the #1 centre (a bona fide #1 centre by the way!) because he hasn't performed well this past playoffs. Those are knee jerk reactions that guarantee you do worse in the short term, but without any guarantee in the slightest that you are going to find a way to improve on Monahan long-term.



If the salary cap allowed it, I would be 100% confident in having the exact same team returning for a year and see what they could do with a bit more experience. Doesn't mean that there aren't holes on the team, but this team is a very strong team even with their holes, and those holes are neither impossible nor unrealistic to fill (size/grit/depth and a #2 centre capable of pushing Backlund down).


An alternate to this is that maybe you just need to acquire a strong #3 centre who is really good defensively, and utilize Backlund more in the offensive zone. I mean, Backlund is absolutely magical in his ability to generate offence even though he is often buried in usage. Maybe if you offload some of that defensive zone utilization, you would see a marked improvement in the 2nd line scoring?

So much right in this post.

[kobasew19]

Kadri confirmed he did nix a trade to the Flames as per the 31 thoughts podcast.

[joejoe3]

Originally Posted by kobasew19

Kadri confirmed he did nix a trade to the Flames as per the 31 thoughts podcast.

So he nixed it hoping they would just keep him as a leaf.

Lame excuse. I'm sure the organization would let you know their intent, if you don't go here, then we'll find a team not on your list instead.

[Toonage]

Exactly. So Kadri says no to the Flames, then the Leafs turn around and deal him anyway. Fine. But you think they would say "look, we're going to move you regardless." At that point he basically says "go for it, I don't care" or goes to the Flames.

So when he says no offense to Calgary and he loves what the team is doing etc thats all a bunch of BS. He chose what was behind the curtain rather than the Flames.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/...s-maple-leafs/

[topfiverecords]

Just read that article. He honestly thought if he nixed the trade they wouldn’t have sent him somewhere else not on his no-trade list? BS. There’s more to it.

[bubbsy]

When I heard him on the radio here on the fan in Toronto, a few days after the trade, when asked about the nixing of any trades, he basically said, like every year, he basically reviews things and provides the team with his list of non-trade teams (at the end of June). He also mentioned that he strategically picks teams that he feels may be looking to trade for him, as a means to try to stay in Toronto.

So the way I see it is that the flames were on his No trade list, the avs were not. When the leafs/flames got deep enough in discussions, flames were granted to speak with kadri in the hope that he gave the green light, which he did not. He probably had no idea if there were any other trade options the leafs had for him. When the Colorado deal happened, they either wasn't on his no trade list, or sakic and the avs were also granted access to speak with him, and he agreed.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

...So the way I see it is that the flames were on his No trade list, the avs were not. When the leafs/flames got deep enough in discussions, flames were granted to speak with kadri in the hope that he gave the green light, which he did not. He probably had no idea if there were any other trade options the leafs had for him. When the Colorado deal happened, they either wasn't on his no trade list, or sakic and the avs were also granted access to speak with him, and he agreed.

Why would any team grant access to a player if there is no reason to do so? Kadri was under contract for multiple years, and free to be moved to Colorado without his consent. There was no reason at all for him to have a pre-trade discussion with Sakic.

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Why would any team grant access to a player if there is no reason to do so? Kadri was under contract for multiple years, and free to be moved to Colorado without his consent. There was no reason at all for him to have a pre-trade discussion with Sakic.

if the avs were on his no trade list. The flames were on is no trade list, and it is my understanding Treliving was given a chance to try to convince kadri to waive, which he did not.