Brad Treliving needs to go

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Curious to know what you mean by inactivity. Was there a GM who was more active at the draft last year? Does signing the, widely regarded, best goalie on the UFA market last season not register? What about Tanev as well? What about selling Bennett and Rittich?….Inactivity?

Sure, I was hoping for something of significance over the past two days, but looking at the price of a Ristolainen, for example, is not something I would have applauded. Jones wasn’t coming here and I don’t fault Treliving for trading a first+ for Reinhart either.

Look at what the Blackhawks gave up to get Jones. He could have very well signed in Chicago in a year from now and all it would have cost is cap space.If he was willing to sign there now, why not then? Apparently he wasn’t going to Philadelphia.

Does acquiring Sam Rienhart push this team into contention? I don’t think so. I like the player, but not at that price for this team right now. Not without another shoe, or two to drop. So, what are we complaining about? Inactivity? Really?

Treliving will never live down the Hamonic trade as long as he’s GM of the Flames, short of winning a cup. And I’m reasonably sure, over a beer, he would say ‘yeah, I would like that one back’. That was a situation of a GM reaching for it. I think it’s worth acknowledging Treliving looks to have shown some restraint here. I would imagine Treliving did his job and had a good idea about what the price was to acquire the players that moved this weekend, and also wether they were suitable options.

One way or the other, the vultures are out looking to pick the team, and the GM, apart.

Sometimes ‘inactivity’, as you put it, can be a good thing. Also worth acknowledging that the offseason isn’t over. Last I checked Jack Eichel hasn’t been traded and I’m sure there are others who are available. Some we may know about , and some we may not.

The Flames not falling over themselves to acquire a Ristolainen , OEL, Ellis, Atkinson, Vorachek, or a Rienhard is something I can accept.

I mean this year

We can’t start another year as is

And base on results, Treliving is a complete failure

[cdnsir]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

I am not grading the draft itself

Just the inactivity

Making trades for the sake of making trades is how you lose in sports, stock markets, and in life.

[Macindoc]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

No but we need changes badly

…but not bad changes. Coming off surgery, the market will significantly undervalue Monahan, and he will almost certainly be worth more to the Flames than anyone they could have traded him for. Rumours that Johnny wants to go to the East coast may limit the number of teams interested in trading for him until they can negotiate an extension with his agent. With the loss of Gio, the Flames can’t trade away any veteran D. So who can the Flames trade right now that would result in good asset management? We need change for the better, not just change for the sake of change.

I can guarantee that if Treliving is offered a trade that will clearly make the organization better, he will jump at the opportunity. Frankly, I was more worried that he would feel pressured into making a bad trade just to be seen as doing something.

[Macindoc]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

I am talking about this coming year.

Losing Gio and gaining Pitlick is the change so far

How can you feel happy with that?

It would have been fine if we had a good team. We don’t and changes have to be made.

Considering the need, Treliving gets an F so far

You’re missing a big part of the picture. Gio is gone, but in his place we have significantly more cap space, in a year when the cap is flat, and the additional flexibility gives the Flames an advantage in making trades or in signing free agents, who will have far less leverage this year with most teams up against the cap. In fact, cap space will be one of the most valuable assets a team can have this year. If Tre can continue to show this restraint and let all the other teams with cap space blow their budgets on day 1 of free agency, there should be some bargains to be signed on day 2.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Macindoc

You’re missing a big part of the picture. Gio is gone, but in his place we have significantly more cap space, in a year when the cap is flat, and the additional flexibility gives the Flames an advantage in making trades or in signing free agents, who will have far less leverage this year with most teams up against the cap. In fact, cap space will be one of the most valuable assets a team can have this year. If Tre can continue to show this restraint and let all the other teams with cap space blow their budgets on day 1 of free agency, there should be some bargains to be signed on day 2.

A challenge is that the Flames paid 6.x for a D that won the Norris. Shortly thereafter, Jones and Makar just signed for 9.x . In a flat cap world

RFAs are commanding UFA dollars

So “significantly more cap space” isn’t really what you seem to think, given that RFA contracts post ELC for elite players are at former UFA levels

Cap space is only as good as what you can get for those dollars. And breaking RFA contracts made that a lot more challenging

So you are right, and at the same time, the market is screwy

[Jay Random]

The Flames aren't likely to be signing an RFA to take Giordano's spot. The fact that RFAs are getting so much more money is good news from the Flames' perspective: it puts downward pressure on UFA contracts, because there are only so many cap dollars to go around.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

The Flames aren't likely to be signing an RFA to take Giordano's spot. The fact that RFAs are getting so much more money is good news from the Flames' perspective: it puts downward pressure on UFA contracts, because there are only so many cap dollars to go around.

And there are not that many UFAs that perform at elite levels.

So it’s not so good.

Value for money, who at 6 million replaces Gio?

[Saqe]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

I am not grading the draft itself

Just the inactivity

Being inactive has been Treliving's best move so far. Nothing would be more stupid than to use valuable cap space for mediocre players like he has done in the past, especially considering where the Flames are at this point. Hopefully he has learned his lesson.

[Britflamesfan]

Well we have gone from can't trade during the season wait to the deadline, oops didn't do anything at the deadline, still better to wait until Seattle's big day. Err no wait better at draft weekend, well start of season could be best.

If we keep JG you can bet its going to cost a fortune for somebody who disappears when the going gets tough.

Then we have the sulky boy who is not worth his current wage let alone 9M and he will want more I bet.

Then there is the perennially damaged centre Monahan who is also as soft as butter. What a complete mess and a million miles away from being a contender.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Britflamesfan

Well we have gone from can't trade during the season wait to the deadline, oops didn't do anything at the deadline, still better to wait until Seattle's big day. Err no wait better at draft weekend, well start of season could be best.

If we keep JG you can bet its going to cost a fortune for somebody who disappears when the going gets tough.

Then we have the sulky boy who is not worth his current wage let alone 9M and he will want more I bet.

Then there is the perennially damaged centre Monahan who is also as soft as butter. What a complete mess and a million miles away from being a contender.

Then there is a terrible take.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Then there is a terrible take.

Is it? You could actually comment on why you think so.

Everyone knows the core needs a shake up and it's yet to happen. It's been a long time coming.

In order to keep Johnny you're going to have to pay big money and I'm definitely concerned if he is worth that money. I don't see him as an elite forward that can carry a team. Due to his size I feel he is much easier to shut down in the playoffs. Those seem like real and legit concerns.

Tkachuk is another guy who is a secondary player in my eyes. Can we afford to give him a huge contract? If Tkachuk is in the 50-60 pts range and we're paying 9 million he better be bringing a ton of intangibles.

And Monahan is always hurt and he is soft. He's not a number 1 centre.

These 3 are going to be the ones leading your team? That is NOT an elite core. These seem like very legitimate concerns.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Is it? You could actually comment on why you think so.

Everyone knows the core needs a shake up and it's yet to happen. It's been a long time coming.

In order to keep Johnny you're going to have to pay big money and I'm definitely concerned if he is worth that money. I don't see him as an elite forward that can carry a team. Due to his size I feel he is much easier to shut down in the playoffs. Those seem like real and legit concerns.

Tkachuk is another guy who is a secondary player in my eyes. Can we afford to give him a huge contract? If Tkachuk is in the 50-60 pts range and we're paying 9 million he better be bringing a ton of intangibles.

And Monahan is always hurt and he is soft. He's not a number 1 centre.

These 3 are going to be the ones leading your team? That is NOT an elite core. These seem like very legitimate concerns.

I keep reading the bolded all over this board, or similar sentiments and wonder where this is coming from.

Just purely from an offensive standpoint its just not true.

Once again...since Matthew Tkachuk was drafted into the NHL

he is 44th in the entire league in points.

He is 6th at his position in the entire league in points (Marchand, Panarin, Ovechkin, Gaudreau and Huberdeau the only guys ahead of him)

His 82 game pt average is 65 pts and that was with 2nd line minutes and one very down season.

Then you add in his intangibles and you have yourself a hell of a hockey player.

So maybe he is not worth 9M a year but he also is not getting paid long term that and is unlikely to get that much from anyone in FA.

But to say he isn't elite, at least at his position, is simply wrong unless elite is reserved for only those at the top of every single category.

These are the kind of guys you try to find in every draft or in any trade. They cost an absolute fortune in free agency.

He is a guy you build around and add to, not a guy you look to move unless you are getting an absolute haul back or starting a complete scorched earth rebuild (which this club is not in any way trying to do at this point)

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Britflamesfan

Well we have gone from can't trade during the season wait to the deadline, oops didn't do anything at the deadline, still better to wait until Seattle's big day. Err no wait better at draft weekend, well start of season could be best.

If we keep JG you can bet its going to cost a fortune for somebody who disappears when the going gets tough.

Then we have the sulky boy who is not worth his current wage let alone 9M and he will want more I bet.

Then there is the perennially damaged centre Monahan who is also as soft as butter. What a complete mess and a million miles away from being a contender.

Originally Posted by Hackey

Is it? You could actually comment on why you think so.

Everyone knows the core needs a shake up and it's yet to happen. It's been a long time coming.

In order to keep Johnny you're going to have to pay big money and I'm definitely concerned if he is worth that money. I don't see him as an elite forward that can carry a team. Due to his size I feel he is much easier to shut down in the playoffs. Those seem like real and legit concerns.

Tkachuk is another guy who is a secondary player in my eyes. Can we afford to give him a huge contract? If Tkachuk is in the 50-60 pts range and we're paying 9 million he better be bringing a ton of intangibles.

And Monahan is always hurt and he is soft. He's not a number 1 centre.

These 3 are going to be the ones leading your team? That is NOT an elite core. These seem like very legitimate concerns.

Okay, I'll take it on.

Treliving's inactivity is extremely frustrating. I think he tends to get fixated on targets and not able to adjust to lesser targets that would still improve the team. He's the guy that spends so much time looking fastball that he doesn't pull the trigger on the hanging curve. I will give him credit that he hasn't made a reactionary trade that hurts the team. He just makes what he thinks are well thought our trades that cost the team it's future. Bongo will tell you that his is a + pick trader, but the problem with that perspective is Treliving made deals including draft picks that never should have been made, then the deals he made for picks that should have been made/ anyone would have made. I think the guy makes specific plans to go to the bathroom, and won't vary from those plans. It's probably why he has the highest dry cleaning bills in the league, because he can't adjust to "when nature calls" and ####s himself. Definitely a weakness.

The Johnny Hockey situation is another frustrating one. They should have a deal in the can already. If Johnny won't sign, or is asking too much, then he should have been moved at the draft. You can not allow the NTC to kick in. If they do sign him, they need to surround him with the right players. I think either Lindholm or Monahan is a center that works with him. The whole #1 center stuff is bull#### to me, you want a number of lines that work well together and make the other team struggle to defend against. I've always hated the "eggs in one basket" approach, so have multiple lines that can produce and win you games. Gaudreau is a good play driver, so I would be happy having him in the fold over the next 6-7 years at a reasonable contract. Gives us a legitimate threat.

The Tkachuk situation is a mess. He's a guy that has to go. What he did was unforgiveable in my mind. His maturity level just isn't there, and whatever veteran said it, was right. You can't riot every night, and that is Tkachuk's game. He thrives on mayhem, chaos, and emotion. And when you play that way for 82 games, what do you do in the post-season to take your performance up a notch? Nothing. For that reason alone I would deal him, but add in his qualifier and future salary demands, I have more incentive to move him than keep him because those intangibles he brings to the table are a huge double edged sword that has cut the team as much as it has the opposition.

Monahan is a guy you just have to stick with. Yes, he's run into some injuries, but he's done so playing in the dirty areas of the ice where few Flames tread. Taking the hacks and whacks he does creating time and space for his team mates is not easy, and the fact that he does it so effectively while scoring is a skill that is one you should not overlook. Moving him now would be a mistake simply because he is damaged goods. If you want to move him, you wait until he's healthy and scoring again. He's too good not to start scoring again, so you wait and move him when the right deal comes along.

I actually think this team is not that far off. I think the right trade and a few UFAs, and this team could be a solid playoff team, and a dark horse contender. Treliving just has to find the sack to make it happen.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by cdnsir

Making trades for the sake of making trades is how you lose in sports, stock markets, and in life.

So is being unable to make a change when needed.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

So is being unable to make a change when needed.

When no one else wants your players in trades “that make sense” to you, it’s also probably a pretty good indicator that you are misevaluating your own players, and that they are nowhere near as good as you think they are. That could be a good indication that it is time to rebuild.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

When no one else wants your players in trades “that make sense” to you, it’s also probably a pretty good indicator that you are misevaluating your own players, and that they are nowhere near as good as you think they are. That could be a good indication that it is time to rebuild.

It’s definitely an indication of something. Just about every team in the league is looking to adjust their roster and make a change or two. If over an extended period of time you can’t find a way to exchange some assets in a way that works for you, something is not working.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

I used to love it when my teachers gave me my final grade on the second day of class. It was totally fair.

? Have you been under a rock for the last 4 years?

[Bingo]

This is such a pointless conversation without knowing what is actually going on.

I don't want a GM that can't make a decision.

But I also don't want a GM that has himself talked into having to make a decision and just taking what he can get regardless of value.

Without knowing what he's pursued and what he's turned down this is just a conversation where people that hate the guy are saying they hate him, and people that support the guy are saying to keep him.

Not enough information to be upset or defend the guy.

Silly.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Bingo

This is such a pointless conversation without knowing what is actually going on.

I don't want a GM that can't make a decision.

But I also don't want a GM that has himself talked into having to make a decision and just taking what he can get regardless of value.

Without knowing what he's pursued and what he's turned down this is just a conversation where people that hate the guy are saying they hate him, and people that support the guy are saying to keep him.

Not enough information to be upset or defend the guy.

Silly.

I think this is why the Johnny piece is such an important part of the off-season. He hasn't talked himself into having to make a decision, but the nature of Johnny's contract is (possibly) forcing his hand a bit.

We know there is a pinch point just days away, and I think we all agree that the team should not put itself in the position where they go into next season with a pending UFA Johnny Gaudreau who has a very restrictive NTC. In my eyes, it's a very clear asset management exercise and I'm interested to see how Tree deals with it. We know he's in contract negotiations with Johnny, and I'm hoping we see some sort of decisive action resulting from the outcome of those negotiations.

[DylanScores]

I get that we’ve lost a good player. At the end of the day, the Flames is a business. Tre has done some head scratching moves for sure , so does a lot of GMs. At the end of the season, lots of the posters are clamouring to have the core shaken up and demanded change. He exposed and lost Gio.

We got cap in return and still a lot of CPers are not happy. Lack of activity doesn’t mean he’s not trying. But should he give up our bare prospect pool just to make a trade? I also wonder what would make the group satisfied?

We are all passionate about our team, but there has been so much rude comments about other posters opinion and very unwelcome comments. We all disagree at times but let’s be kind and let’s respect other people’s opinions.

Thank you.