Mark Giordano as Captain

[Yamer]

I agree that Giordano is the model captain, but...

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Giordano didn't trade Ferland and Hamilton for two less dynamic players.

Lindholm and Hanifin have just as many tools in their belt as Ferland and Hamilton do.

Giordano didn't trade an 11th overall pick for a #4/5 defenseman.

Hamonic was brought in to be a steady #3/4, and that is what he is. Price paid and structure of the deal (non-lottery protection) can be disputed, but let's be honest about the player and his role when we do revisit it.

Giordano didn't decide to build an annual playoff hopeful around a lead-footed 2C while everyone else has a pair of two-way burners down the middle.

I assume you're talking about Backlund, but it's strange to see 'lead-footed' associated with him. He's not the fleetest of foot, but this is the first time I've seen his skating targeted. The Flames don't have a lot to work with at the center position, but I feel Backlund has been a reliable 2 A/B type of player that can play up and down the ice.

Champion teams with that kind of punch either failed miserably for years (Chicago, Pittsburgh, etc.) or lucked out in circumstance (Leafs and Tavares).

Giordano didn't sign Troy Brouwer to play with the highest overall pick in franchise history trying to learn the most important forward position on the ice, completely breaking his confidence in the process.

No disagreement here. Swing and a miss by Treliving, and terrible on-ice management by GG.

Giordano didn't sign a poor man's Sam Gagner to a 3 year 3.125 million dollar deal.

Even with all we know, Derek Ryan is still a bit of a wildcard IMO. I knew what I was supposed to expect, and we all know what he is capable of, but he's a small sample size with no consistent track record. Term was concerning given this, but it's up to the player to prove that those tools and skills carry westward.

Giordano didn't sign a 31 year old power forward no one else wanted in a league getting faster every season.

Ok, what? You can prove that 31 other teams had zero interest in James Neal? Can we please be honest with respect to stuff like this?

A perennial 20-30 goal scorer with an edge that has played in the last 2 Stanley Cup Finals. Nobody wants him?

Giordano didn't trade for, then sign, Mike Stone to 3.5 million a year for 3 years to be a shakey #5-6 defenseman.

Though slightly overpaid, Stone has been every bit as advertised. He's been far from shaky in the #5/6 role he's been asked to play, and surprisingly effective when thrust into the #4 role.

Giordano didn't trade away the steady Brett Kulak to save a few hundred thousand and gamble on a 19 year old defenseman.

Everyone wants and loves the mantra of always earned, never given. This is a prime example. Kulak fell down the depth chart, and didn't look any steadier or more reliable than any of the players he was competing with.

He was the odd man out in the end, and instead of sitting him or losing him for nothing Treliving gave him the opportunity he wanted to make an impact in Montreal.

So **** off with that garbage.

I probably wouldn't be that aggressive, but I think it's worth asking people be a little more introspective with their arguments and suggestions.

Let's be intellectually honest and stifle the revisionist hyperbole when discussing these things.

[Tyler]

Quite simply, Gio is a great Captain but not a Captain synonymous with winning. Oh well

[jlh2640]

Time to consider trading him if this continues

[Bunk]

Originally Posted by jlh2640

Time to consider trading him if this continues

If this continues into the new year, I would consider a mini tear down and rebuild. Gio is from Toronto...

[simonarea]

Gio used to be a great player. In last couple of years, he did slow down and........dull
His passing accuracy is sub par..... his wristers from the point get blocked most of the time... he is not a physical player anymore. He used to lay some big punishing hits...

He still plays hard and is still a good d men... however, he turns the puck over consistently

[TheIronMaiden]

Gio is one of the all time great Flames, and one of the all time great NHL defensemen. The Flames are lucky to have him.

[Split98]

Marchand also isn't the captain last I checked...

The captain doesn't have to be the sole voice in the room, and Tkachuk hasn't exactly been quiet the last few days. I don't think this team becomes 1 iota better if Giordano shames himself for our enjoyment.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Gio has 7 points in 10 games and after the whole team crapped the bed yesterday is still +5

He makes every D partner he plays with better.

One awful game for the whole team doesn’t change that.

[Wolfman]

The big part is we're 10 games in to a 82 game season. Let's calm down a bit here. I was as mad as everyone else after the drubbing last night. The season isn't over, we've seen them compete against the Bruins and Preds. They have some things to work through.

[Igottago]

Gio is not an issue in any way shape or form. The guy brings it every game. He does whatever the team needs a captain to do. Any other issues are out of his control.

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

Hey, Gio is a great D-man and an even better person but I truly believe this group needs a captain with more fire. from the non response of the treatment of Gaudreau to tonight's embarrassing loss without even a punishing hit it shows me there's a problem. This team is gutless and has been since Iggy left

I think of Bostons embarrassing opening night 7-0 loss in Washington, Love him or hate him Brad Marchand sent a message to his team that he hates to loose and basically attacked Lars Eller for show boating and running up the score. His Boston teammates got the message, they have one loss since (to us no less)

I think Gio needs to step up or step out.

How do you know the got the message? Plus, Boston lost 3 in a row, to us, Oilers, and Canucks. So your point then would be?

[Flash Walken]

The thing about leadership is that it is a group endeavour.

You have your lead horse or your lead dog, but the carriage or sled is going nowhere without everyone else pulling in their harnesses.

It used to be in Colorado that players rarely if ever heard from Sakic. Rob Blake would stand up, or more commonly Adam Foote. Patrick Roy was vocal, Mike Reechi.

The buck stopped with Joe, though. If you ever heard from Sakic, it was usually after you'd received a warning from Foote without realizing it. Then, Foote would come over to your stall before or after a practice/game and he'd say "Joe wants to talk to you."

If you ever heard that sentence in your life as an Avs player, you could be reasonably assured you were one false step from being moved, either temporarily as a scratch, or permanently to another team.

As good or bad as Gio might be as a captain, it's an organizational issue with this club. No one has anyone's back except for the briefest moment when the organization had Burke as a buffer.

No one had Keenan's back. No one had Brent's back. GG was on the hotseast almost immediately. How can you empower the leadership group if you aren't empowering the coach?

I was super pumped about this roster this year, but it seems as though without Gulutzan-brand hockey the team is flailing between high octane and running on fumes. That's a player issue. That's a top tier player issue. That's a top minute player issue.

It's not that the team looks mentally weak after a setback, it's that they never look mentally engaged at all to start a game.

Too much happy go lucky, too much guys out there to collect a paycheque.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Gio has 7 points in 10 games and after the whole team crapped the bed yesterday is still +5

He makes every D partner he plays with better.

One awful game for the whole team doesn’t change that.

He had 7 points in the first 8 before they dropped the last two.

But I guess he has to lose his #### and knock someone out when the team is losing to satisfy fans?

[cannon7]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Iginla led teams only advanced past the first round once. So if success is how we are evaluating captains - how much better was he than Gio.

For what it is worth I think both are/were excellent captains. Just pointing out the gaps in the argument.



Gio brings it every night. There is no evidence that he is part of a coach killing brigade

I wasn't making the case that Iginla was a better captain (although, I think he was). I was making the case that "there's only so much a captain can do" argument doesn't hold a lot of water since our last captain did more than the current one. At least on the ice. That being said, Iginla had his own flaws as a captain, some of which are parallels to what we're seeing with Giordano (losing the room, accountability, etc.). Iginla wasn't the best captain of his generation, and that's also true for Giordano. Great player, great person -- absolutely. Not sure why people keep bringing that up, saying a guy is not a good captain is not akin to saying they have nothing else to bring to the table. Being a leader/captain is a specific skillset, one that is difficult in the best of circumstances.

[Badgers Nose]

Pretty sure Gio would be mayor of Toronto if he played there.

He is the hardest working, most fit and has persevered to reach his dream of playing.

I like him right here, with a C on his jersey, thank you very much.

[cannon7]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

But I guess he has to lose his #### and knock someone out when the team is losing to satisfy fans?

That's not what people are saying. The fact that this team is so psychologically fragile starts with leadership. Giordano is this team's leader, if he isn't a stabilizing and focusing force for this roster, then he may not be the right guy for the job. Not saying such a person exists for this group, either. The core may just be a flawed mix of personalities that would otherwise thrive in a different situation. Don't think anyone is saying they have the answer, as we're not privy to all the interpersonal dynamics. I wasn't a fan of the Peters hire, but the fact that this team has already regressed into their usual bad habits the past three games, suggests that the coaching staff is already in a battle of wills with their roster. Not even sure the GM has a read on this situation, as the "give o' #### meter" was at an all time low last night.

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by cannon7

That's not what people are saying. The fact that this team is so psychologically fragile starts with leadership. Giordano is this team's leader, if he isn't a stabilizing and focusing force for this roster, then he may not be the right guy for the job. Not saying such a person exists for this group, either. The core may just be a flawed mix of personalities that would otherwise thrive in a different situation. Don't think anyone is saying they have the answer, as we're not privy to all the interpersonal dynamics. I wasn't a fan of the Peters hire, but the fact that this team has already regressed into their usual bad habits the past three games, suggests that the coaching staff is already in a battle of wills with their roster. Not even sure the GM has a read on this situation, as the "give o' #### meter" was at an all time low last night.

Interesting. If having a guy like Gio behind you doesn't make you more confident that that says something about you, not him. We have high willpower (or I think we do) on the 1st, 2nd lines and 1st D pairing.

IMO the thread about the first line not playing well enough defensively is probably the right track. Maybe this team needs to embrace the notion they are not good enough for run and gun in the NHL, even with all the talent.

Winning hockey for this team will have to be much more buckled down.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

The thing about leadership is that it is a group endeavour.

You have your lead horse or your lead dog, but the carriage or sled is going nowhere without everyone else pulling in their harnesses.

It used to be in Colorado that players rarely if ever heard from Sakic. Rob Blake would stand up, or more commonly Adam Foote. Patrick Roy was vocal, Mike Reechi.

The buck stopped with Joe, though. If you ever heard from Sakic, it was usually after you'd received a warning from Foote without realizing it. Then, Foote would come over to your stall before or after a practice/game and he'd say "Joe wants to talk to you."

If you ever heard that sentence in your life as an Avs player, you could be reasonably assured you were one false step from being moved, either temporarily as a scratch, or permanently to another team.

As good or bad as Gio might be as a captain, it's an organizational issue with this club. No one has anyone's back except for the briefest moment when the organization had Burke as a buffer.

No one had Keenan's back. No one had Brent's back. GG was on the hotseast almost immediately. How can you empower the leadership group if you aren't empowering the coach?

I was super pumped about this roster this year, but it seems as though without Gulutzan-brand hockey the team is flailing between high octane and running on fumes. That's a player issue. That's a top tier player issue. That's a top minute player issue.

It's not that the team looks mentally weak after a setback, it's that they never look mentally engaged at all to start a game.

Too much happy go lucky, too much guys out there to collect a paycheque.

The bolded is the ultimate truth IMO. If Flames can't fix this, then they have built the team around the wrong players.

[jlh2640]

We saw these threads started in later stages of Iginla here, and he was the best leader this franchise ever saw to date. Gio is fine, he is not a ra ra guy. I am mad but his leadership is not the problem

[Max Cow Disease]

Originally Posted by jlh2640

We saw these threads started in later stages of Iginla here, and he was the best leader this franchise ever saw to date. Gio is fine, he is not a ra ra guy. I am mad but his leadership is not the problem

Exactly. People criticizing Gio and suggesting we need a captain like Iggy have clearly forgotten how maligned that dude was for his lack of ability to whip the team in to shape in its direst moments. Like Iggy, Gio’s now facing the brunt of backlash for what I’d suggest is largely out of his control.

At the end of the day, it seems to be a bout of hair-splitting to call for Gio’s position as captain because he’s not enough of a dickhead on the ice. The guy, like Iggy, is all class and is well respected by pretty much everyone that seems to know him. Gives 100 percent essentially 100 percent of the time, and is always quick to call himself out for a lackluster performance.