Johnny Needs Protection

[Flamenspiel]

Originally Posted by Huntingwhale

Players are going after Gaudreau hard. And with him getting crush seemingly every game, it's going to continue as players now know they can run him hard and he'll go flying.

But a lot of that has to do with Johnny seemingly being less agile and elusive. He's going into corners hard and playing like he's 6 feet tall. I've noticed he seems willing to collide and take players head on. It's good in theory that he's engaged that way. But that's not what makes Gaudreau the star he is. It's the elusiveness and the way he avoids contact that's given him success.

Before this season you could count on 1 hand the number of big hits he's taken. This season, it's at least a couple of hits a game and he's often slow to get up. Part of me thinks it's because he did so well avoiding checks for so long, that maybe he figures he can play a bit more physical and still get away with it. Almost like he's tempting fate because he got away with it for so long.

Yes, this is it, except that many times offense comes from defense, so if he steals the puck in the corner it could very quickly lead to a goal. It looks like he is trying to take the next step to increase his productivity, i don't think he is less agile, its just something he is trying to add to his game. Is it worth it? Who knows?

[Split98]

As much good as we see in Peters, I'm thinking this altered gameplan with Johnny comes from him as well. He'd be setting up the PP entry that was lining Johnny up for the slaughter, and I'd assume he's asking Johnny to participate along the boards more as well.

As with most things Peters, what's not working does get resolved. So here's hoping we see the elusive Johnny out there again, as you'd have to think that the latest brush with Johnny on IR came a little too close for comfort.

[EVERLAST]

Originally Posted by robbie111

The obvious answer is to injure the other teams best player no matter what penalty gets taken. It sends a message. Start with a good spearing major, that's what I say. Then follow it up with a two handed axe felling swing to that players wrists. Dress someone you don't care about being suspended and let him go nuts. After that run a referee for good measure and then have one of your fans drop hot coffee on the other coach.

Let em know your there......

Make sure we're all putting on the foil before every game.....old Time hockey.

[Stanley]

omg enough with Ferland...he was NOT a deterrent

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Best deterrent would be to have a lethal powerplay

Far more effective than having a plug take up ice-time.

Take a penalty against Johnny, give up a goal. If the Flames had a top 5 PP I suspect teams would take less liberties.

I shake my head every time I see this argument.

Powerplays score about 20% of the time, or 1 time in 5. Full stop.

Sure, it would be great if you could somehow, magically, make your PP score 100% of the time, or even 50% of the time. But they don't. It won't happen. It's a competitive league.

PPs all run within a range of about 15% to 25%. And hoping that your PP can be some significant deterrent is just wishful thinking, if not completely foolhardy.

Hockey is a tough game and teams have to stand up for themselves physically. Come to grips with it.

[Snuffleupagus]

Let it be known right away, play extra rough on Johnny and your star player is getting nailed every shift

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I shake my head every time I see this argument.

Powerplays score about 20% of the time, or 1 time in 5. Full stop.

Sure, it would be great if you could somehow, magically, make your PP score 100% of the time, or even 50% of the time. But they don't. It won't happen. It's a competitive league.

PPs all run within a range of about 15% to 25%. And hoping that your PP can be some significant deterrent is just wishful thinking, if not completely foolhardy.

Hockey is a tough game and teams have to stand up for themselves physically. Come to grips with it.

I don't know any opponent who would pass up a chance to nail Johnny (especially cleanly, but even on the edge). Retribution, penalties, etc. wouldn't matter in that moment.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I shake my head every time I see this argument.

Powerplays score about 20% of the time, or 1 time in 5. Full stop.

Sure, it would be great if you could somehow, magically, make your PP score 100% of the time, or even 50% of the time. But they don't. It won't happen. It's a competitive league.

PPs all run within a range of about 15% to 25%. And hoping that your PP can be some significant deterrent is just wishful thinking, if not completely foolhardy.

Hockey is a tough game and teams have to stand up for themselves physically. Come to grips with it.

Ok provide tangible proof that the traditional enforcer way of deterring this stuff worked.

[The Boy Wonder]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Ok provide tangible proof that the traditional enforcer way of deterring this stuff worked.

Didn't see gretzky getting run over or cheap shotted very often with Semenko or McSorley out there.

[codynw]

Originally Posted by The Boy Wonder

Didn't see gretzky getting run over or cheap shotted very often with Semenko or McSorley out there.

But it still happened.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by The Boy Wonder

Didn't see gretzky getting run over or cheap shotted very often with Semenko or McSorley out there.

What's interesting is for many of those years they had one of the top powerplays in the game, if not THE top, scoring at a 25% clip or better.


So was it the goon factor or the fact that if you put the Oil on the PP they made you pay?



But either way a single team example, involving the best player in the history of the game (arguably) isn't great proof. Gretz had a remarkable ability to avoid getting hit.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

What's interesting is for many of those years they had one of the top powerplays in the game, if not THE top, scoring at a 25% clip or better.


So was it the goon factor or the fact that if you put the Oil on the PP they made you pay?



But either way a single team example, involving the best player in the history of the game (arguably) isn't great proof. Gretz had a remarkable ability to avoid getting hit.

I think another historical example to consider is what happened to the 2011 Vancouver Canucks in the Stanley Cup playoffs. The Canucks entered the SCF with a ridiculous 28.3% powerplay success rate, and in seven games against the Bruins scored 2 powerplay goals in 27 opportunities. An open question is how much their sudden ineptness on the powerplay contributed to the impunity with which the Bruins committed infractions in that series. Had the Canucks been able to score, would we have even seen a Tim Thomas body-check, or Brad Marchand speed-bagging one of the Sedins after the whistle?

[Reggie Dunlop]

"Johnny Needs Protection" is the name of my next band.

[The Boy Wonder]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

What's interesting is for many of those years they had one of the top powerplays in the game, if not THE top, scoring at a 25% clip or better.


So was it the goon factor or the fact that if you put the Oil on the PP they made you pay?



But either way a single team example, involving the best player in the history of the game (arguably) isn't great proof. Gretz had a remarkable ability to avoid getting hit.

I don’t need to repeat what’s already been said but a 1/4 chance of scoring does very little to deter it.

And even if your theory is right, which I disagree with, but what good is an effective power play as a deterrent in a blowout game where one team is up by at least 4. The threat of a goal against is seriously reduced

[Classic_Sniper]

Johnny Gaudreau doesn’t need any protection. What he needs is his team’s PP to become a threat to the point where teams are scared to dress certain types of players or are scared to even hit him.

Elliotte Friedman in the broadcast last night said that the very physical Winnipeg Jets team were scared to hit the Toronto Maple Leafs because they didn’t want to give the Leafs too man chances on the PP. This is the type of fear we need to instill in other teams so they don’t take liberties on any of our guys.

[shutout]

There is no such thing as a deterrent any more.

Tough guys cant be on the ice at the same time as skilled guys if you want to generate offense. And two tough guys fighting does not stop anything, and who is going to want to fight a tough guy when they can just cheap shot or slash a star player and walk away from a fight.

Cheap shots and injuries are as part of the new NHL as the increased speed is.

Unless you are willing to lose a player to suspension for deliberately taking out the other teams star player if your star gets hurt than how can you possibly create any type of fear in an opponent. And even if a coach/team was willing to go this route, good luck finding a player that is going to do that and give up the salary.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by The Boy Wonder

I don’t need to repeat what’s already been said but a 1/4 chance of scoring does very little to deter it.

And even if your theory is right, which I disagree with, but what good is an effective power play as a deterrent in a blowout game where one team is up by at least 4. The threat of a goal against is seriously reduced

How many games are blowouts like that?
And if that’s the case and a game is out of hand simply take Johnny off the ice

[flambers]

Originally Posted by shutout

There is no such thing as a deterrent any more.

.

Flames last deterrent now plays with the Vegas Golden Knight (Derek Engelland).

Bruins have Marchand, he's tough and he is a perfect deterrent.

[kurwamac]

wow. if I were to post what I just heard about Gaudreau.. this forum would freak & completely lose it

[shutout]

Marchand is the dirty little sh*t causing dirty plays.

He is the need for a deterrent. He is not a deterrent.

How many times did Engelland fight somebody that slashed or took cheap shots on Gaudreau? Pretty sure Engelland was on the team the night Gaudreau had his wrist broke after 14 slashes from Suter. Please tell what Engelland did to prevent those slashes from happening?