Better Call Saul - New TV Series 2014

[AcGold]

The timeline you have is wrong. Jimmy working in the mailroom precedes the events of the tazing by probably a few years. The purpose of this flashback is to show the relationship between Hamlin and Jimmy (ie. Hamlin is a complete prick to Jimmy but smiles through it while he tells Jimmy he doesn't have a chance at working in the company). When Jimmy doesn't get the job at H&M he goes back to being a conman as we saw in the first episode of the series.

Then the show shifts to present day where Jimmy is investigating the nursing home fraud. Jimmy pushes the boundaries and acts in a seemingly dishonest way (that Chuck asks him about where Chuck initially believes Jimmy broke the law) while challenging a multimillion dollar company. Surprise surprise the symptoms return. If anything you don't understand the complexity of the shows timelines and again the episode (Rico) shows a correlation between Jimmy's dishonest behavior and Chuck's symptoms. It's not in a subtle way either, the writers are pretty much cramming it down our throats to develop Jimmy's moral character.

The whole show has been developing the notion that Jimmy is a silvertongue with rather deplorable morality in his younger years. To me it's obvious the show is supposed to be counter to Breaking Bad how Walt slowly turned evil. Jimmy slowly turns good and his dishonest behavior was so impactful it even ruined his brothers life. The reason being imo to demonstrate how truly bad of a person he used to be, that he wouldn't outright murder someone but that his actions impacted lives drastically.

Just based on the way the story is told everything indicates that Chuck's agoraphobia is Jimmy's fault, writers don't go out of there way to clearly focus on a certain point if it's a red herring. The show has flashbacks every episode and the timeline is confusing for sure simply because Odenkirk's visual age is unaltered through what is likely a 15 year span of his story so far. It's unlikely the symptoms would disappear immediately anyways, lifestyle changes are usually gradual and breaking a debilitating agoraphobia most definitely would leave some residual effects. We have seen that the symptoms come and go as Jimmy acts dishonestly and pushes his luck and we have seen that it's psychosomatic (as shown by the doctor turning the bed on). The clues may seem small but they are emblematic of the reality of the situation.

[Yamer]

Originally Posted by AcGold

The timeline you have is wrong. Jimmy working in the mailroom precedes the events of the tazing by probably a few years. The purpose of this flashback is to show the relationship between Hamlin and Jimmy (ie. Hamlin is a complete prick to Jimmy but smiles through it while he tells Jimmy he doesn't have a chance at working in the company). When Jimmy doesn't get the job at H&M he goes back to being a conman as we saw in the first episode of the series.

No, I have it right. I'm not talking about the tazing incident, I'm talking about him working in the mailroom/getting his diploma as coming after him being Slippin' Jimmy. I know all of it occurs before the current narrative. It goes:

Jimmy getting bailed out, promising to change ---> working at the mailroom, turning his life around by passing the bar ---> Chuck stealing the paper, getting tazed, and coming home.

The point is, he wasn't Slippin' Jimmy when Chuck first became ill, which occurs sometime between Jimmy working in the mailroom and the present events (Chuck tells the doctor that he's been suffering from the effects for approximately 18 months). Therefore, his antics and behavior could not have logically caused Chuck's illness as Slippin' Jimmy was a thing of the past before Chuck became ill.

Then the show shifts to present day where Jimmy is investigating the nursing home fraud. Jimmy pushes the boundaries and acts in a seemingly dishonest way (that Chuck asks him about where Chuck initially believes Jimmy broke the law) while challenging a multimillion dollar company. Surprise surprise the symptoms return. If anything you don't understand the complexity of the shows timelines and again the episode (Rico) shows a correlation between Jimmy's dishonest behavior and Chuck's symptoms. It's not in a subtle way either, the writers are pretty much cramming it down our throats to develop Jimmy's moral character.

Again, you mistook my point and my general understanding of the show.

The whole show has been developing the notion that Jimmy is a silvertongue with rather deplorable morality in his younger years. To me it's obvious the show is supposed to be counter to Breaking Bad how Walt slowly turned evil. Jimmy slowly turns good and his dishonest behavior was so impactful it even ruined his brothers life. The reason being imo to demonstrate how truly bad of a person he used to be, that he wouldn't outright murder someone but that his actions impacted lives drastically.

If you go back to my comments with the knowledge I've tried to make clear here you might change your opinion. I get that Jimmy is an ethically complex character, he always was even in BB. He briefly reverts to Slippin' Jimmy to gain business and secure the Kettelman's. Outside of that, as I've said before, he's been a more righteous character than not.

Just based on the way the story is told everything indicates that Chuck's agoraphobia is Jimmy's fault, writers don't go out of there way to clearly focus on a certain point if it's a red herring. The show has flashbacks every episode and the timeline is confusing for sure simply because Odenkirk's visual age is unaltered through what is likely a 15 year span of his story so far. It's unlikely the symptoms would disappear immediately anyways, lifestyle changes are usually gradual and breaking a debilitating agoraphobia most definitely would leave some residual effects. We have seen that the symptoms come and go as Jimmy acts dishonestly and pushes his luck and we have seen that it's psychosomatic (as shown by the doctor turning the bed on). The clues may seem small but they are emblematic of the reality of the situation.

No it doesn't. Apart from the single scene following Chuck's return home, there has been absolutely no indication at all that Jimmy is associated with Chuck's illness. Now, that isn't to say that's what the writers intended and will make clear in future episodes, but nothing in the story so far concretely indicates that Jimmy caused Chuck's illness.

[AcGold]

Slippin' Jimmy never actually disappeared. It's been presented as a gradual process and that he simply won't disappear. Odds are eventually the event that initially triggered the agoraphobia to develop will be shown.

There has been no direct implication that Jimmy caused it but the show is hinting at it hardcore and thematically I'm not wrong.

I don't think he's been righteous overall; he's caused legs to be broken, conned people, snuck into garbages and hid in them, taken bribes, pushed the legal limits with his billboard and done things just to mess with Hamlin. Thematically he's been painted as a fairly immoral character that has broken the law many times and he slowly turns good with how he helps seniors, even then it's only because of convenience. Either way we'll see when they show what caused the incident. You are right they referenced it and because of that it will likely be shown.

If we know Slippin Jimmy characteristics come and go and we've never seen the event that triggered the agoraphobia how can you say for sure what it was or was not?

[Yamer]

Originally Posted by AcGold

Slippin' Jimmy never actually disappeared. It's been presented as a gradual process and that he simply won't disappear. Odds are eventually the event that initially triggered the agoraphobia to develop will be shown.

There has been no direct implication that Jimmy caused it but the show is hinting at it hardcore and thematically I'm not wrong.

Debatable, hence the discussion. I don't think the show has hinted at Jimmy being the cause at all. There has, literally, only been a single scene in the entirety of the series that links it in any way, and I've already gone over that ad nauseam.

There is as much chance of the show making that link as there is it doesn't.

I don't think he's been righteous overall; he's caused legs to be broken, conned people, snuck into garbages and hid in them, taken bribes, pushed the legal limits with his billboard and done things just to mess with Hamlin. Thematically he's been painted as a fairly immoral character that has broken the law many times and he slowly turns good with how he helps seniors, even then it's only because of convenience.

Most of these events have been touched on by other posters. I've never contested that Jimmy is a saint, rather that given his motivations he can be viewed as more ethically admirable than not. He saved those skateboarders from a sure death when he really didn't have to, the garbage stunt was legal, and he returned the bribe and did the right thing. The billboard stunt was iffy and came with its own consequences, but like the other events we find him in the liminal space between good and bad.

Thematically, we are shown a character that has tried to get on the right track after having a morally reprehensible beginning. As he becomes increasingly desperate I'm sure we'll see him compromise his ethics to become Saul Goodman.

Either way we'll see when they show what caused the incident. You are right they referenced it and because of that it will likely be shown.

IF they show it. As of events already on screen I have no compelling reason to believe that it's an inevitability.

If we know Slippin Jimmy characteristics come and go and we've never seen the event that triggered the agoraphobia how can you say for sure what it was or was not?

I never did. We, as the audience, don't know what caused it. I simply took issue with you so definitively declaring that Jimmy doesn't seem honest at all, and that he was the cause of his brother's illness. I think I've made a strong case against both of those claims.

[Bill Bumface]

AcGold is like a battered wife with this Slippin' Jimmy theory...

[Hessen]

I take it as, Chuck has the underlying mental issue about electromagnetics. Slippin Jimmy is simply the main stressor to the major episodes Chuck has. In no way do I see Jimmy's behavior being the cause of the mental issues.

[devo22]

finally got Netflix last week (the Austrian version doesn't have a huge catalogue yet, but friends raved about BCS so I gave in) and binged through the first 8 episodes over the last few days. I wasn't a big Breaking Bad junkie (I liked the series and especially the first couple seasons, but was not as blown away as others), but man, this one has me hooked. Didn't think that Saul was an interesting enough character to make it a great spin-off, but this is fantastic. I can't remember the last time I enjoyed a new series that much!

[ben voyonsdonc]

Originally Posted by Bill Bumface

AcGold is like a battered wife with this Slippin' Jimmy theory...

There has to be a better simile than that.

[corporatejay]

That last scene tonight, wow. I totally saw it coming but it was so well written and acted.

[Kidder]

I've really enjoyed every episode so far, and I actually hope they go easy on cameos in future seasons.

The show has the feel and cinematography of Breaking Bad but it certainly stands strong on its own legs.

[GoJetsGo]

There's a nice combination going with Jimmy/Saul's character development alongside Mike's backstory.

The scene with Mike disarming that other hired goon was badass.

[Zarley]

Great episode last night.

[Erick Estrada]

I actually prefer Mike's side story to Saul's. I just find the crime stuff more interesting than legal stuff.

[Yamer]

It was really cool seeing Steven Ogg, aka Trevor Phillips, as one of the hired thugs. Good old Calgary boy.

[devo22]

those final Jimmy/Chuck scenes at the end were absolutely fantastic. Can't wait for the finale.

[DownhillGoat]

Missed the last episode. Does anybody know when Shaw VOD updates the new episodes?

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by Yamer

It was really cool seeing Steven Ogg, aka Trevor Phillips, as one of the hired thugs. Good old Calgary boy.

Christ I knew I recognized his voice from somewhere, that's awesome

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I actually prefer Mike's side story to Saul's. I just find the crime stuff more interesting than legal stuff.

I think the two stories work well together. I didn't have much hope for this show when it was announced, and really didn't see how they could build a story around Saul. Jimmy has been a fantastic character, and Odenkirk's acting has been stellar. Vince Gilligan and his writing crew really know how to tell a story, and I think they are the best in the business as far as my tastes go.

[Pizza]

Originally Posted by Yamer

It was really cool seeing Steven Ogg, aka Trevor Phillips, as one of the hired thugs. Good old Calgary boy.

He had that Trevor mannerism all the way.

I thought they were going to do a GTA reunion as soon as that "Lester" guy showed up and thought they were going to make a deal with Michael and Franklin

[Yamer]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

Christ I knew I recognized his voice from somewhere, that's awesome

Originally Posted by Pizza

He had that Trevor mannerism all the way.

I thought they were going to do a GTA reunion as soon as that "Lester" guy showed up and thought they were going to make a deal with Michael and Franklin

Ogg did all the motion and face capture for the game, so it literally is Ogg in GTA V. It was almost like the character came alive for a few minutes on screen. Like you say, everything about his voice, posture, and mannerisms were exactly the same. He even had the tapered cargo pants stuffed into combat boots.