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Old 12-02-2022, 02:36 PM   #161
midniteowl
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Originally Posted by TheScorpion View Post
Lucic might be the least effective player in the NHL right now. He's been disastrous this year. It's nothing against him personally, he's had an amazing career, but he's not currently an NHL player.
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Have you ever played hockey? And if so, what was the highest level you reached?

Just curious as to what qualifies some of these opinions
.

Now this is silly, are you seriously think Lucic not the least effective player in NHL right now? What does it matter is Scorp never play any hockey? Everybody, including my neighbor puppy knows that Lucic has not been effective, Scorp didn't say Lucic is not or has not been effective ever. I guess a lot of us cannot give any opinion since we never play any hockey in our life.
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Old 12-02-2022, 02:36 PM   #162
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I think Sutter would say that based on his experience he knows exactly what Philips would accomplish. That's what he's paid to do.

One was given a run in the NHL because of his perceived skill set. The other was not for the exact same reasons.

While their record is not perfect, their job is to access talent. And Sutter has reached the conclusion that Phillps is not going to be a viable NHL player and will walk as a UFA at season's end. And Sutter and the Flames are OK with that.
in that case Juuso valimaki and others would call them idiots

and Philips next season

it's due diligence .... if you're that sure of your evaluative ability that you can't possibly be wrong then your ego is too big for your own good

I'd be very wary if Flames brass are that sure of themselves that they can't risk a two week look-see on a player that requires no waivers

Sutter and his overplayed grinders deserve each other, as well as the inevitable 10th place finish he is headed for if he is this stubborn

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Old 12-02-2022, 02:37 PM   #163
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How is this overrating prospects? Our team has an absolutely, bat #### insane level anemic offense. We also have the top offensive player in the world's second best league ready to be called up. No one is saying that Phillips is going to be christ-like, but any sort of increase to our offense right now is definitely warranted. The team needs extra offensive creativity. It's not crazy to think that Phillips has that exact skill set.
The list of players who've lit up the A and never sniffed an NHL career is long.

I'm not against giving the guy a shot but the odds are still stacked against him to have a meaningful NHL career. Swapping him in for Lucic on the 4th line is also not the way to set him up for success.

I think he'll get a shot at some point this season and I hope he'll make an impact, but I wouldn't hold my breath.
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Old 12-02-2022, 02:41 PM   #164
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Whats the worst that happens ? The Flames get better, great. If they stay the same great we can bury some plug that isn't helping or trade them. They get worse we get a top 5 pick to reload for next year instead of a non impact player. I don't think this year is it honestly. There is no way to lose with call ups not just Phillips.

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Old 12-02-2022, 02:42 PM   #165
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in that case Juuso valimaki and others would call them idiots

and Philips next season
Who are the others?
Juuso Valimaki is probably going to carve out a career as a bottom pairing guy on a bad team. Good for him.
I don't think he's a guy that 10 years from now on we will look back on with regret. Though then again this is a site that still pines for the like of Garnett Hathaway and Ryan Lomberg as "ones that got away" so maybe I'm wrong.
But not sure how much of a proof point Juuso is.
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Old 12-02-2022, 02:43 PM   #166
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Whats the worst that happens ? The Flames get better, great. If they stay the same great we can bury some plug that isn't helping or trade them. They get worse we get a top 5 pick to reload for next year instead of a non impact player. I don't think this year is it honestly. There is no way to lose with call ups not just Phillips.

literally cannot be worse than what has been happening

either they score more or they continue not scoring . they can't score less
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Old 12-02-2022, 02:49 PM   #167
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Now this is silly, are you seriously think Lucic not the least effective player in NHL right now? What does it matter is Scorp never play any hockey? Everybody, including my neighbor puppy knows that Lucic has not been effective, Scorp didn't say Lucic is not or has not been effective ever. I guess a lot of us cannot give any opinion since we never play any hockey in our life.
I find that's difficult for those who haven't played (at least at a decent level) to evaluate players in a holistic manner - ie: looking at positioning and play without the puck, or understanding the importance of players who are fulfilling a specific role. Many overemphasize offensive contributions in analyzing performance. It's why a guy like Tanev is not fully appreciated on here for what he brings to the team.

For those who are ragging on Lucic - what is your specific critique of his game of late?

I haven't noticed much of a difference in his play vs. say Ritchie or Lewis, so I'm curious if I'm missing something.
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Old 12-02-2022, 02:51 PM   #168
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Originally Posted by Zarley View Post
I find that's difficult for those who haven't played (at least at a decent level) to evaluate players in a holistic manner - ie: looking at positioning and play without the puck, or understanding the importance of players who are fulfilling a specific role. Many overemphasize offensive contributions in analyzing performance. It's why a guy like Tanev is not fully appreciated on here for what he brings to the team.

For those who are ragging on Lucic - what is your specific critique of his game of late?

I haven't noticed much of a difference in his play vs. say Ritchie or Lewis, so I'm curious if I'm missing something.
This site doesn't appreciate Tanev? I think you will be hard pressed to find anyone who doesn't think highly of Tanev and his importance to this team.

Lucic is flat out terrible, if you want to talk about positions and all this other stuff you haven't watched him play. He is a floater he watches the play. You don't need to play the game to understand and understand positioning etc.
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Old 12-02-2022, 02:52 PM   #169
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https://twitter.com/user/status/1598768310648459264


Salim asks Sutter about Phillips at 3:08
Man, I couldn't imagine having to deal with these idiotic questions day-in, day-out, for years and years. Good on Sutter for having some fun with it and making things entertaining rather than spitting out banal platitudes.
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Old 12-02-2022, 02:53 PM   #170
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Originally Posted by Zarley View Post
I find that's difficult for those who haven't played (at least at a decent level) to evaluate players in a holistic manner - ie: looking at positioning and play without the puck, or understanding the importance of players who are fulfilling a specific role. Many overemphasize offensive contributions in analyzing performance. It's why a guy like Tanev is not fully appreciated on here for what he brings to the team.

For those who are ragging on Lucic - what is your specific critique of his game of late?

I haven't noticed much of a difference in his play vs. say Ritchie or Lewis, so I'm curious if I'm missing something.
coughs up pucks in the neutral zone , doesn't fight, gets caved in against his match ups

50 games between goals scored

pelletier or zary could NOT be worse as the #9 forward
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Old 12-02-2022, 02:54 PM   #171
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Who are the others?
Juuso Valimaki is probably going to carve out a career as a bottom pairing guy on a bad team. Good for him.
I don't think he's a guy that 10 years from now on we will look back on with regret. Though then again this is a site that still pines for the like of Garnett Hathaway and Ryan Lomberg as "ones that got away" so maybe I'm wrong.
But not sure how much of a proof point Juuso is.
recently?

juuso
byron
kulak
hathaway
lomberg
very nearly kylington
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Old 12-02-2022, 03:01 PM   #172
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Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent View Post
recently?

juuso
byron
kulak
hathaway
lomberg
very nearly kylington
OK.
If that's the list honestly who cares.
It's a bunch of bottom of the line-up players, with Paul Byron being the best.

Every NHL team would have a similar list.
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Old 12-02-2022, 03:05 PM   #173
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Lucic, in his career, has been a good passer, a good shooter, and an effective physical presence.

Right now, he can't pass. He can't handle the puck, and he certainly isn't shooting it with any success. The hits he throws are largely irrelevant to the play — instead of separating guys from the puck like he has in the past, he's generally been just finishing his checks long after the puck is gone.

The Flames are getting flattened defensively when he's been on the ice, even moreso than his linemates in isolation. Straight-up dominated. And he's not even fighting — zero this year.
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Old 12-02-2022, 03:10 PM   #174
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Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent View Post
recently?

juuso
byron
kulak
hathaway
lomberg
very nearly kylington
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Old 12-02-2022, 03:12 PM   #175
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coughs up pucks in the neutral zone
I can recall him committing one egregious turnover a couple games ago but every player on the team has been guilty of this. Usually Lucic is good at carrying the puck along the boards and getting it deep into the offensive zone. Mangi and Dube have been guilty of this much more than Looch of late, for example.

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Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent View Post
doesn't fight
He's not an enforcer, but I agree I'd like to see him drop the gloves a little more frequently. Looks like he had 7 fights last season.

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gets caved in against his match ups
Occasionally the 4th line gets pinned in the defensive zone if there's a mismatch. I don't think this has happened recently any more than you'd expect - usually Looch/Lewis/Ritchie are decent at winning puck battles and regaining possession.

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50 games between goals scored
Who cares? That's not his role.

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pelletier or zary could NOT be worse as the #9 forward
But he's not the #9 forward.
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Old 12-02-2022, 03:12 PM   #176
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Man, I couldn't imagine having to deal with these idiotic questions day-in, day-out, for years and years. Good on Sutter for having some fun with it and making things entertaining rather than spitting out banal platitudes.
Maybe he should actually answer.

AHL leading scorer and he can’t as much even just say “He’s had a good start if we need to call somebody up he’d be an option”

Didn’t need to be an ass about it IMO

Honestly I don’t blame Adam Fox or any other prospect for not signing for this organization anymore, clearly not best for your career

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Old 12-02-2022, 03:13 PM   #177
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And for all the Lucic, Lewis and Ritchie outrage, how many times have we heard this coach say in scrums that being successful in the NHL, with this team, is not just about points?
This team has scored 2 or fewer goals in 9 of its last 17 games.

The team is 0-8-1 in those 9 games. They are 5-1-2 in the other 8 games.

So yes, points do matter. The lack of clutch scoring is costing this team wins.
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Old 12-02-2022, 03:14 PM   #178
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"Not just about points" != "Points don't matter"
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Old 12-02-2022, 03:18 PM   #179
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A guy like Lucic contributing nothing offensively, better be one of the best checkers and defensive players in the league to make up for it. He's far from that. He's been flat out awful these past couple of weeks. There's no sugar coating it.
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Old 12-02-2022, 03:28 PM   #180
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Originally Posted by Zarley View Post
I find that's difficult for those who haven't played (at least at a decent level) to evaluate players in a holistic manner - ie: looking at positioning and play without the puck, or understanding the importance of players who are fulfilling a specific role. Many overemphasize offensive contributions in analyzing performance. It's why a guy like Tanev is not fully appreciated on here for what he brings to the team.

For those who are ragging on Lucic - what is your specific critique of his game of late?

I haven't noticed much of a difference in his play vs. say Ritchie or Lewis, so I'm curious if I'm missing something.

I don't know for what others think of Lucic when they say he is ineffective, but I view him being in effective is just what you've mentioned. He is on the team for a specific role, may be I don't understand what that role is since I have never play hockey at any level. What I hope his role is to be a physical presence and defensive responsible. I never expect him to be on the offensive side of the ledger. However, he has not fulfilled his role. He is a liability on the ice, IMHO. He is slow, not foot speed but he thinks slow, his reaction is slow. Are you seriously satisfied with his play this season? Mind you, Lewis kills penalties and doing a decent job at it. Ritchie scored.



It's all fine that we view Lucic effectiveness differently, what prompted my respond to your respond to Scorpion's post about Lucic. You asked him has he play any hockey in his life and what's the highest level he has played. It sounded to me like if he hasn't play any hockey and his opinions are irrelevant. That is all. If I mistook your post, I apologize.
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