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Old 12-01-2022, 10:49 PM   #41
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If nothing else, maybe it sends a message to the rest of the guys in the AHL that they'll get a shot if they play well and to the guys on the Flames that they'll sit if they don't.
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Old 12-01-2022, 10:51 PM   #42
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Sometimes you sign players knowing they are going to top out at the AHL level. There is no shame in being a great AHL player. It's like the triple A player in baseball who just can't catch up to a 90+ fastball, can't hit the curve, doesn't have the speed on the base paths, has a weak arm, or is weak at their defensive position. They may be dominant in the minors but just never have the right package to play in the majors. It's why guys kick around the minors well into their 30s. Phillips may just be one of those AHL scoring stars who doesn't have the package to play in the NHL or the team just knows his game won't translate.

Obviously from Scorps snippet from Treliving the team is in this camp. They are obviously looking at other players down on the farm and thinking who they can give a look to. Zahorna and Duehr seem to fit the description Treliving is floating. If there is a call-up, I think it's going to disappoint a lot of people.
Not giving a guy like Phillips a shot with the big club when he's ripping up the AHL sends a brutal message to all current and future prospects. It creates a stigma that the Calgary Flames are the organization where the careers of young prospects go to die. A place where you'll forever be in AHL purgatory no matter how well you play there.

Adam Fox refused to sign. Is Coronato next?
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Old 12-01-2022, 10:53 PM   #43
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Not giving a guy like Phillips a shot with the big club when he's ripping up the AHL sends a brutal message to all current and future prospects. It creates a stigma that the Calgary Flames are the organization where the careers of young prospects go to die. A place where you'll forever be in AHL purgatory no matter how well you play there.

Adam Fox refused to sign. Is Coronato next?
Pelletier is one of just four players from the 2019 first round who has played zero NHL games. And one of the other guys is still in college.
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Old 12-01-2022, 10:56 PM   #44
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I know you're just predicting what they'll do, Lanny, but man ... Duehr just isn't anything. He's an AHL fourth-liner.
He's an AHL 4th liner that has the package that could work in the NHL, especially in the style and system Sutter employs. There's your blind spot Scorp. You think that because a player is X in the AHL that they are going to be the same in the NHL. It doesn't work that way. Making the jump to the next level is a whole new game, and many times players have to re-create themselves and use the characteristics that make teams believe in them. Duehr is a big guy that can skate and finish from in close. He plays a north-south game and goes to the dirty areas. He scores his goals from the blue paint by getting dirty. That's exactly what is missing on the top line right now. They need a body that can crash the net and score ugly goals on Huberdeau's passes. Look at Treliving's comments again. He's saying just this.

If Sutter wasn't here I would be all for the recall of Phillips. A coach who believed in playing all the skill possible is where Phillips might get a chance, but we don't have that coach. Our guy likes beef and he likes to play dump and chase. Big guys will always have the advantage over small guys in Sutter's books, and I firmly believe he thinks this team is too small as it is. I just don't see them getting smaller even if it means adding more "skill" to the lineup.
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Old 12-01-2022, 10:59 PM   #45
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He's an AHL 4th liner that has the package that could work in the NHL, especially in the style and system Sutter employs. There's your blind spot Scorp. You think that because a player is X in the AHL that they are going to be the same in the NHL. It doesn't work that way. Making the jump to the next level is a whole new game, and many times players have to re-create themselves and use the characteristics that make teams believe in them. Duehr is a big guy that can skate and finish from in close. He plays a north-south game and goes to the dirty areas. He scores his goals from the blue paint by getting dirty. That's exactly what is missing on the top line right now. They need a body that can crash the net and score ugly goals on Huberdeau's passes. Look at Treliving's comments again. He's saying just this.

If Sutter wasn't here I would be all for the recall of Phillips. A coach who believed in playing all the skill possible is where Phillips might get a chance, but we don't have that coach. Our guy likes beef and he likes to play dump and chase. Big guys will always have the advantage over small guys in Sutter's books, and I firmly believe he thinks this team is too small as it is. I just don't see them getting smaller even if it means adding more "skill" to the lineup.
The thing is, though, the vast majority of guys who turn into anything in the NHL — even as fourth-liners — produce in the AHL.

I look at guys like Hathaway and Lomberg, both of whom became full-time NHLers in depth roles after being top scorers with the Flames' farm club. They shot the puck a lot down there, too, certainly much more than Duehr, who is comparatively inert.

Duehr just doesn't score and hasn't really at any level. It's not as much of a blind spot as it is a statistical trend — it's exceedingly rare for a guy who scores 11 goals in 59 games in the A as a 24-year-old to become anything more than a negative-value NHLer.

I don't doubt that Sutter would play him but I do doubt that he'd be any good.
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Old 12-01-2022, 11:01 PM   #46
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Lol Walker Duehr has a career high of 12 goals in any league he’s played in during his entire career.

He’s not going to solve this teams scoring issues. They already have Ritchie, Lewis, Lucic, and Rooney that provide no offense. Adding Duehr to that mix does nothing.

Honestly Treliving needs to sit down with Sutter and say we’re bringing one of these guys up (Phillips or Pelletier), which one do you want.

A guy the same size as Phillips scored the GWG for the other team tonight, maybe stop being so damn stubborn and try something different.

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Old 12-01-2022, 11:02 PM   #47
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If Sutter wasn't here I would be all for the recall of Phillips. A coach who believed in playing all the skill possible is where Phillips might get a chance, but we don't have that coach. Our guy likes beef and he likes to play dump and chase. Big guys will always have the advantage over small guys in Sutter's books, and I firmly believe he thinks this team is too small as it is. I just don't see them getting smaller even if it means adding more "skill" to the lineup.
Exactly this. If people expect Phillips to come in and provide "spark" it will never be under this coach. Should start the fire Sutter thread first before the call up Phillips one if its the direction they want this team to go.

Not that I'm even against that. But calling up Phillips on this team as is will do nothing to change what peoples issues are. And even if Tre calls him up zero chance he gets a sniff high in the line up. Sutter rarely puts call ups in the line up anywhere barring its due to injuries. He wants everyone on board and playing HIS structure. He wants nothing to do with Phillips coming to provide some difference. He sees the current issues as a in house issue and lack of buy in I would assume.
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Old 12-01-2022, 11:05 PM   #48
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Not giving a guy like Phillips a shot with the big club when he's ripping up the AHL sends a brutal message to all current and future prospects. It creates a stigma that the Calgary Flames are the organization where the careers of young prospects go to die. A place where you'll forever be in AHL purgatory no matter how well you play there.

Adam Fox refused to sign. Is Coronato next?
News flash: The Flames have been the same way for 30 years.

As a prospect, if you don't make the jump within two years, you're pretty well ####ed. Not many players who spend more than a season in the AHL end up making the jump and becoming players of consequence with this organization. If you play more than two seasons without playing a couple handfuls of games in the AHL, you're pretty much dead. Kylington is kind of the exception. But all the other players (all three of them) who came up through the system got auditions in the first and second years, and usually made the jump during that second year. More than that and you're getting passed by other prospects.
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Old 12-01-2022, 11:07 PM   #49
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News flash: The Flames have been the same way for 30 years.

As a prospect, if you don't make the jump within two years, you're pretty well ####ed. Not many players who spend more than a season in the AHL end up making the jump and becoming players of consequence with this organization. If you play more than two seasons without playing a couple handfuls of games in the AHL, you're pretty much dead. Kylington is kind of the exception. But all the other players (all three of them) who came up through the system got auditions in the first and second years, and usually made the jump during that second year. More than that and you're getting passed by other prospects.
Bingo. The Flames have shown they have little patience over the years for guys they don't see as being sure things.

I can see why they might not have time for Phillips but Pelletier ... their treatment of him has been just bizarre.
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Old 12-01-2022, 11:08 PM   #50
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I don't know what the answer is now, but I suspect the answer may be call up Phillips, put him on Huby's line, and give them the flexibility to do more than dump & chase.

Suggesting that Duehr may be a difference maker here, seems like quite a stretch. He's 0.5P/G in the AHL and a minus player on a winning team.
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Old 12-01-2022, 11:09 PM   #51
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I’d like to call up Kadri, where’s he been?
Pretty much on pace for his usual average of points per year since he has been in the show, about 53 points.
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Old 12-01-2022, 11:09 PM   #52
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Bingo. The Flames have shown they have little patience over the years for guys they don't see as being sure things.

I can see why they might not have time for Phillips but Pelletier ... their treatment of him has been just bizarre.
He had a terrible preseason. Long term their though process is likely to let him cook a whole season down there and hope he cracks the line up next year.
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Old 12-01-2022, 11:09 PM   #53
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Pelletier has the same problem Phillips has. He's too small. Has a lot of the qualities that should make him an automatic NHL player, but he lacks the beef that a certain farmer likes to have in his lineups.
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Old 12-01-2022, 11:10 PM   #54
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Pretty much on pace for his usual average of points per year since he has been in the show, about 53 points.

Oh s**t.

Did Tre buy high?

Ouch
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Old 12-01-2022, 11:12 PM   #55
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He had a terrible preseason. Long term their though process is likely to let him cook a whole season down there and hope he cracks the line up next year.
Judging a player on two games in preseason when they have 83 points in 84 career AHL games would be idiotic.

Sutter needs to just stop being so damn stubborn. Tampa and Colorado and even his LA teams didn’t win because of beef.
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Old 12-01-2022, 11:13 PM   #56
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If we're still judging guys by how good they were in the preseason, Lucic should've been one of the first cuts.

Pelletier is a friggin first-round pick!
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Old 12-01-2022, 11:16 PM   #57
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The Flames need someone in the lineup that can put the puck in the net. What do you have to lose?

They do everything else pretty well. Minus Markstrom’s Mike Smith moments.
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Old 12-01-2022, 11:17 PM   #58
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Judging a player on two games in preseason when they have 83 points in 84 career AHL games would be idiotic.

Sutter needs to just stop being so damn stubborn. Tampa and Colorado and even his LA teams didn’t win because of beef.
They have camps and scrimmages for a reason as well. If he didnt impress he didnt impress....
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Old 12-01-2022, 11:17 PM   #59
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How about they replace the entire line of Milan Lucic, Trevor Lewis, and Brett Ritchie with the first line of the Wranglers?
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Old 12-01-2022, 11:18 PM   #60
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Oh s**t.

Did Tre buy high?

Ouch
Paging Blake Coleman, Blake Coleman.
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