Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community
Old 12-04-2022, 08:54 AM   #461
Bend it like Bourgeois
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald View Post
What are the expectations for a Phillips call up? Are people going to be happy when he is on a very short leash? Are people going to be okay if he comes up, doesn't generate much, and ends up sitting most of the game?

If Phillips comes up it is highly probable that Sutter will believe he has to shelter Phillips rather than playing in all situations. This is why he isn't getting a call up IMO. It's not about one-way play, it's about the two-way play that Sutter demands. I don't think he has the confidence that the player coming up will be able to play both sides of the puck at the NHL level, which limits the coach in how he can deploy the player. That is a problem that Phillips won't be able to overcome.

I'm all for a call up, I just don't think Phillips is going to live up to the Scorpion hype that is being built up and Sutter will not deploy the player to meet anyone's satisfaction. It will be a now win situation.
He can’t possibly live up to the hype. The legend of our saviour Phillips is out of control.

There’s nothing unique despite all the speculation.

Almost all teams are trying to bank cap space with short rosters if they can. AHL players generally get called up when injuries happen. Those players have short leashes on every team for every coach. Sometimes circumstance gives them an opportunity and they run with it. Usually not.

There’s also nothing that unique about Phillips. The AHL leaderboard is always full of mid 20s players who have learned to be productive pros and almost all of them end up tweeners at best or not even that. They bounce through a couple teams who give them a shot hoping to win the lottery, then end up like czarnik, petan, or hundreds of others.

Maybe phillips becomes the next yanni gourde. Almost certainly not.
Bend it like Bourgeois is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Bend it like Bourgeois For This Useful Post:
Old 12-04-2022, 08:55 AM   #462
FormerPresJamesTaylor
Lifetime Suspension
 
Join Date: Oct 2021
Exp:
Default

You can absolutely have Pelletier come up and have a very limited role, even some healthy scratches at the NHL at this point. He's a second year pro who's excelling in the AHL. Spot duty in the NHL, being around the game at the highest level, will have benefits.

Get seven minutes, play well, he'll get more. Keep playing well, maybe get a promotion, an injury happens, he gets more minutes.
FormerPresJamesTaylor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2022, 08:59 AM   #463
Bingo
Owner
 
Bingo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Calgary
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FormerPresJamesTaylor View Post
You can absolutely have Pelletier come up and have a very limited role, even some healthy scratches at the NHL at this point. He's a second year pro who's excelling in the AHL. Spot duty in the NHL, being around the game at the highest level, will have benefits.

Get seven minutes, play well, he'll get more. Keep playing well, maybe get a promotion, an injury happens, he gets more minutes.
Can. Likely won't.

And I see the logic. He's a second year pro coming out of an odd covid window. He needs to play.
Bingo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2022, 09:54 AM   #464
kermitology
It's not easy being green!
 
kermitology's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: In the tubes to Vancouver Island
Exp:
Default

I agree that it will take an injury to a top 6 player to get Phillips a chance for a call up. My issue with Sutter is that he’ll request a grinder to be called up and will play Lewis or Lucic in the top 6 slot and play the grinder in their place on the 4th line.

Phillips will find success (this doesn’t mean he’s an 80pt player mind you) in the NHL because of his work ethic and his determination to get to the puck, but it won’t be with Calgary, because of Sutter.

THAT is my frustration. He can easily fit in a middle 6 role, and I think he’d do well with Kadri to be honest, and would likely get Mangipane moving his feet, but instead it’ll be Trevor Lewis dumping the puck or floating shots into a goalie’s crest.
__________________
Who is in charge of this product and why haven't they been fired yet?
kermitology is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2022, 09:55 AM   #465
Naitix
Scoring Winger
 
Naitix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bend it like Bourgeois View Post
He can’t possibly live up to the hype. The legend of our saviour Phillips is out of control.

There’s nothing unique despite all the speculation.

Almost all teams are trying to bank cap space with short rosters if they can. AHL players generally get called up when injuries happen. Those players have short leashes on every team for every coach. Sometimes circumstance gives them an opportunity and they run with it. Usually not.

There’s also nothing that unique about Phillips. The AHL leaderboard is always full of mid 20s players who have learned to be productive pros and almost all of them end up tweeners at best or not even that. They bounce through a couple teams who give them a shot hoping to win the lottery, then end up like czarnik, petan, or hundreds of others.

Maybe phillips becomes the next yanni gourde. Almost certainly not.
The big difference between all those players you have listed and Phillips, is that those players actually got a shot in the NHL after barely any AHL time. Phillips was ready for an extended look last year, and he is ready again.

Phillips players the game that in my opinion would translate into the NHL, especially playing with good board players like Ruzicka (who he had success with in the AHL) and Huberdeau.

A lot of elements of Phillips's game is exactly what Flames are missing. If he gets called up, he will be the best zone entry player on the Flames and one of the most skilled forwards with the puck, he would also be the best puck receiver at speed on the team and one of the most offensively creative players, and one of the best passers. All of these traits point to him potentially being successful NHL level.

Not giving him a shot for 5-8 game in the top 6 is just stupid and I will argue with anyone over it, especially when our top line is still nothing special. if Phillips plays and fails - whatever, it is not like it would change much, but if it works it changes everything.
Naitix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2022, 09:58 AM   #466
TheScorpion
First round-bust
 
TheScorpion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: speculating about AHL players
Exp:
Default

As far as the "Scorpion Hype" goes ... pretty sure all I've been saying for the last three years is that he deserves a shot — he could be a Czarnik, he could be a Marchessault, but nobody will know unless he plays. Certainly haven't been saying he's destined to be the next Gaudreau.

If that's unreasonable, well ...
__________________
"This has been TheScorpion's shtick for years. All these hot takes, clickbait nonsense just to feed his social media algorithms." –Tuco

TheScorpion is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to TheScorpion For This Useful Post:
Old 12-04-2022, 10:00 AM   #467
FormerPresJamesTaylor
Lifetime Suspension
 
Join Date: Oct 2021
Exp:
Default

You do edge towards hyperbole though, quite a bit. That's the hype.
FormerPresJamesTaylor is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to FormerPresJamesTaylor For This Useful Post:
Old 12-04-2022, 10:03 AM   #468
mrchristy31
Draft Pick
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Default Is Phillips currently the best player outside of the NHL?

Simply looking at Stats, one has to wonder if he is the top player or prospect outside of the NHL. What else does he have to do to prove his game “could adapt”? I have been a loyal Sutter supporter, but it is starting to look more and more clearly like the game has evolved at a quicker pace then he was able to.
mrchristy31 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2022, 10:04 AM   #469
genetic_phreek
First Line Centre
 
genetic_phreek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: VanCity
Exp:
Default

Huberdeau - Lindholm - Phillips
Mangiapane - Kadri - Dube
Ruzicka - Backlund - Toffoli
Coleman - Rooney - Lewis

I think Huberdeau plays more of a Tkachuk style than he does to Gaudreau. So add a speedster to that line and I think there might be more success.

Mangiapane and Dube are starting to find chemistry.

Ruzicka and Backlund are a good fit so adding another scoring threat with Toffoli and he's still a responsible player.

Coleman and Rooney are high energy dog on a bone type players and I think they can still contribute in that 4th line.
genetic_phreek is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to genetic_phreek For This Useful Post:
Old 12-04-2022, 10:05 AM   #470
Bingo
Owner
 
Bingo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Calgary
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kermitology View Post
I agree that it will take an injury to a top 6 player to get Phillips a chance for a call up. My issue with Sutter is that he’ll request a grinder to be called up and will play Lewis or Lucic in the top 6 slot and play the grinder in their place on the 4th line.

Phillips will find success (this doesn’t mean he’s an 80pt player mind you) in the NHL because of his work ethic and his determination to get to the puck, but it won’t be with Calgary, because of Sutter.

THAT is my frustration. He can easily fit in a middle 6 role, and I think he’d do well with Kadri to be honest, and would likely get Mangipane moving his feet, but instead it’ll be Trevor Lewis dumping the puck or floating shots into a goalie’s crest.
We played a month of the season with Lewis elevated, so yeah that's certainly a possible result of a forward injury.
Bingo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2022, 10:11 AM   #471
Muta
Franchise Player
 
Muta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Auckland, NZ
Exp:
Default

Having Matthew Phillips play an NHL game, temporarily removing one other player from the lineup, is about as non-controversial and non-apocalyptic as it gets. Give him a shot, who the #### cares. If he produces, great. It's one ####ing player who isn't playing all 60 minutes in a 19-man team game, lol.
Muta is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Muta For This Useful Post:
Old 12-04-2022, 10:12 AM   #472
Lanny_McDonald
Franchise Player
 
Lanny_McDonald's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Exp:
Default

I appreciate the desire to see what a guy leading the AHL in scoring has to offer. It's an intriguing story. But at the same time it's humorous people are suggesting that Phillips has not had opportunity with the Flames. He's been to how many training camps including the last one? He was just given a "prove-it" contract. That is all the incentive and opportunity most players get. Show up and be the best player in camp. Force a decision when you're actually going head-to-head against NHL players. That didn't happen. It isn't like Phillips was the last player sent down. He didn't impress the decisions makers in any shape or form. Again, this is D+7. This is not surprising actions by the team. I still contend they are watching the farm closely and have a couple players on a short list for call up. Phillips just doesn't appear to be on that watch list, for obvious reasons. If the team continues to fall further behind the playoff pace things may change, but I don't see the Flames making a gamble on anyone from the farm in a top six role.
Lanny_McDonald is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2022, 10:13 AM   #473
TheScorpion
First round-bust
 
TheScorpion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: speculating about AHL players
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FormerPresJamesTaylor View Post
You do edge towards hyperbole though, quite a bit. That's the hype.
Well maybe. I said he was relatively unmatched at the A level in terms of his age category and stats. The only guy close is Alex Barré-Boulet, who's already way more of a known quantity in the NHL and doesn't have nearly as many goals.

Phillips has played one NHL game, ABB has gotten 30+. That's a big factor imo.
__________________
"This has been TheScorpion's shtick for years. All these hot takes, clickbait nonsense just to feed his social media algorithms." –Tuco

TheScorpion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2022, 10:16 AM   #474
iggyloob12
Scoring Winger
 
iggyloob12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: St. Albert
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FormerPresJamesTaylor View Post
You do edge towards hyperbole though, quite a bit. That's the hype.
And the sheer number of posts here and elsewhere is unquestionably hype.
iggyloob12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2022, 10:19 AM   #475
TheScorpion
First round-bust
 
TheScorpion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: speculating about AHL players
Exp:
Default

Check who started the thread ... if you think I'm the only person who's in this guy's corner right now, you're sorely mistaken. He's a guy people want to talk about because what he's doing is very impressive. Simple as that.
__________________
"This has been TheScorpion's shtick for years. All these hot takes, clickbait nonsense just to feed his social media algorithms." –Tuco

TheScorpion is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to TheScorpion For This Useful Post:
Old 12-04-2022, 10:19 AM   #476
Muta
Franchise Player
 
Muta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Auckland, NZ
Exp:
Default

Passionate hockey fan speaks highly - "hypes up"? - hockey player on favourite team on favourite team hockey message board. More at 6
Muta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2022, 10:22 AM   #477
PepsiFree
Participant
Participant
 
PepsiFree's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bingo View Post
Think our cycles are stopping with different conclusions.

Rooney hasn't really been playing, and I think Lucic has greater importance than you do.

I've said about a dozen times they could certainly bring up Phillips and sit down Ritchie but do that they have to find a player to move down out of the top nine.

With last night's three point performance that's not likely Ruzicka, so I think the holding pattern continues.
Rooney has played 16 games. That’s more than 50% of the season so far, how is that “not really playing”?

You seem stuck on the idea that the 4th line is a dumping zone where you can’t put any player of quality and the guys who play there are garbage anyway so it doesn’t matter. Too many points for Ruz, too many for Dube, etc etc. I’d rather see a 4th line that can do something, wouldn’t you?

Ritchie and Lucic should be splitting games sharing one spot. Let Rooney play 0. Put Ruzicka or Dube as the center on that line and put a call up in the top 9 or put a call up on that line. Lewis got 12 minutes last night, that’s plenty to see how comfortable a call up is in the NHL, plus they’re protected by two “intangible” heavy guys.

Lots of options. As you said, treating the 4th line as a place for grinders and plugs only is just taking a very limited view of things. Let’s get some quality on it.
PepsiFree is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to PepsiFree For This Useful Post:
Old 12-04-2022, 10:22 AM   #478
devo22
Franchise Player
 
devo22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Austria, NOT Australia
Exp:
Default

Flames offense is down from 3.55 G/P (6th) to 3.00 G/P (20th) compared to last season, at the same time you have a player on the farmteam who is leading the whole AHL in goals and points. Asking for him to get a shot because he's dominating the AHL is not hype, it's just logic.
devo22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2022, 10:23 AM   #479
Naitix
Scoring Winger
 
Naitix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald View Post
I appreciate the desire to see what a guy leading the AHL in scoring has to offer. It's an intriguing story. But at the same time it's humorous people are suggesting that Phillips has not had opportunity with the Flames. He's been to how many training camps including the last one? He was just given a "prove-it" contract. That is all the incentive and opportunity most players get. Show up and be the best player in camp. Force a decision when you're actually going head-to-head against NHL players. That didn't happen. It isn't like Phillips was the last player sent down. He didn't impress the decisions makers in any shape or form. Again, this is D+7. This is not surprising actions by the team. I still contend they are watching the farm closely and have a couple players on a short list for call up. Phillips just doesn't appear to be on that watch list, for obvious reasons. If the team continues to fall further behind the playoff pace things may change, but I don't see the Flames making a gamble on anyone from the farm in a top six role.
Training camps are terrible ways to evaluate a player, it is usually first real game action players have seen for 4 months.

Phillips had a great camp this year and was one the best players in each game he played. But not even talking about Phillips, just take a look at Pelletier. He looked quite useless in camp, now he is a completely different player. It usually takes players some time to get going, so having an opinion on players based on what you have seen in camp is pretty useless.

By that measure, people would still think that Klapka is one of the best farm players just because he had 3 good camp games when nobody else was going yet, now he is struggling. It is quite documented occurrence where players dominate camp and pre-season but can't do anything when the season gets going.

Or take a look at Ruzicka, he was quite bad in camp and pre-season, looks like a different player now...
Naitix is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Naitix For This Useful Post:
Old 12-04-2022, 10:31 AM   #480
Bingo
Owner
 
Bingo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Calgary
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PepsiFree View Post
Rooney has played 16 games. That’s more than 50% of the season so far, how is that “not really playing”?

You seem stuck on the idea that the 4th line is a dumping zone where you can’t put any player of quality and the guys who play there are garbage anyway so it doesn’t matter. Too many points for Ruz, too many for Dube, etc etc. I’d rather see a 4th line that can do something, wouldn’t you?

Ritchie and Lucic should be splitting games sharing one spot. Let Rooney play 0. Put Ruzicka or Dube as the center on that line and put a call up in the top 9 or put a call up on that line. Lewis got 12 minutes last night, that’s plenty to see how comfortable a call up is in the NHL, plus they’re protected by two “intangible” heavy guys.

Lots of options. As you said, treating the 4th line as a place for grinders and plugs only is just taking a very limited view of things. Let’s get some quality on it.
Rooney played every game in October, considerably less since.

When have I said they shouldn't call someone up? When have I said they fourth line is the Island of Misfit Toys, to be devoid of all skill and only impact the game negatively?

I said they generally don't score much, ... that's the case across the league, not just in Calgary.

There's a big issue with too much ice time going to the fourth line in Calgary right now, that gets exasperated if you balance the lines out. They need to get more top heavy not less.

I'd strip the fourth line down to 8 minutes max, and with that I wouldn't burry quality prospects in that role.
Bingo is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:53 AM.

Calgary Flames
2023-24




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright Calgarypuck 2021