Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community
Old 12-03-2022, 05:45 PM   #401
Mr.Coffee
damn onions
 
Mr.Coffee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Exp:
Default

Haha hey I feel bad for the guy. Hopefully they give him a shot. Put yourself in his shoes. Literally become the best player in the AHL, still have fans preferring to watch Coleman and Lewis over you.
Mr.Coffee is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2022, 05:47 PM   #402
Bingo
Owner
 
Bingo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Calgary
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee View Post
Haha hey I feel bad for the guy. Hopefully they give him a shot. Put yourself in his shoes. Literally become the best player in the AHL, still have fans preferring to watch Coleman and Lewis over you.
You're Coleman hate is interesting.

But bottom line two excellent defensive forwards aren't coming out of the lineup for an AHL experiment.

If you move Ruzicka down to the fourth line and say Rooney and Ritchie out you may have some traction.
Bingo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2022, 05:48 PM   #403
PepsiFree
Participant
Participant
 
PepsiFree's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bingo View Post
Well the chasm between say Ritchie and Lucic isn't so vast that a little bit of intangibles wouldn't be enough to flip the order.
Unless Ritchie also has worthwhile intangibles. And Lewis does. Etc.

I think itís fine to cite intangibles when justifying keeping guys in the mix if the team is clicking. But they arenít, so whatever intangibles people are bringing arenít outweighing the tangible on ice stuff.
PepsiFree is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to PepsiFree For This Useful Post:
Old 12-03-2022, 05:49 PM   #404
Mr.Coffee
damn onions
 
Mr.Coffee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bingo View Post
You're Coleman hate is interesting.

But bottom line two excellent defensive forwards aren't coming out of the lineup for an AHL experiment.

If you move Ruzicka down to the fourth line and say Rooney and Ritchie out you may have some traction.
Yeah I agree with ya on the Ruzicka thing. I really do hate Coleman haha. Do you like him? If so what do you like about him?
Mr.Coffee is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2022, 05:49 PM   #405
Mathgod
Franchise Player
 
Mathgod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bingo View Post
LOL no I'm not ...

What claim did I make in a statement that starts with "if"?
Sure, but the "if not" scenario brings an immediate end to the conversation, because there's nothing to debate in that case.

The "if yes" scenario is the only one you're exploring. Therefore it's essentially the same as making the claim.

Look, no one can say with total certainty whether or not he's having this "boosting" effect on his teammates when he's on the ice. But if he is, it will be showing in his on-ice numbers. Problem is, his on-ice numbers are bad.
__________________
Mathgod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2022, 05:50 PM   #406
Bingo
Owner
 
Bingo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Calgary
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PepsiFree View Post
Unless Ritchie also has worthwhile intangibles. And Lewis does. Etc.

I think itís fine to cite intangibles when justifying keeping guys in the mix if the team is clicking. But they arenít, so whatever intangibles people are bringing arenít outweighing the tangible on ice stuff.
I think Lewis does for sure.

But Ritchie (in comparison)?

No cup history. Way less intimidation factor. Never discussed as a leader on the team or an important part in the room.

Trust me man, I'm not making a case to move Lucic up the roster ... I'm just saying more than goals and assists come into him holding down a fourth line role.
Bingo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2022, 05:51 PM   #407
Snuffleupagus
Franchise Player
 
Snuffleupagus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Exp:
Default

Fact is the Flames are have a serious hard time scoring and have very few skilled offensive players in the lineup. To not give the A's leading scorer a look under these circumstances seems out of touch, more than anything I don't like the message this sends to our skilled prospects, college free agents and possible UFA's going forward.
Snuffleupagus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2022, 05:52 PM   #408
Bingo
Owner
 
Bingo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Calgary
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathgod View Post
Sure, but the "if not" scenario brings an immediate end to the conversation, because there's nothing to debate in that case.

The "if yes" scenario is the only one you're exploring. Therefore it's essentially the same as making the claim.

Look, no one can say with total certainty whether or not he's having this "boosting" effect on his teammates when he's on the ice. But if he is, it will be showing in his on-ice numbers. Problem is, his on-ice numbers are bad.
It's not a claim. It's a suggestion. Let it go.

And no I don't think a player's intangibles have to necessarily show in their own on ice numbers. If you help other players play better it's in their numbers, not your own.
Bingo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2022, 05:53 PM   #409
Mr.Coffee
damn onions
 
Mr.Coffee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Exp:
Default

Out of all the line 4 guys Lucic can have the biggest impact on a game, but only if he is doing his aggressive forecheck and really skating / playing hard and mean. If he’s lukewarm, like he has been the last month or so, he is awful. But when he is going, his “intangibles” are actually very useful.

Far more than say… a guy like Coleman.
Mr.Coffee is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2022, 05:55 PM   #410
Mathgod
Franchise Player
 
Mathgod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bingo View Post
And no I don't think a player's intangibles have to necessarily show in their own on ice numbers. If you help other players play better it's in their numbers, not your own.
On ice numbers literally say what the team does when you're on the ice...
__________________
Mathgod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2022, 05:59 PM   #411
Burning Beard
First Line Centre
 
Burning Beard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee View Post
Put yourself in his shoes.
I have size 12 feet I really doubt they would fit.
Burning Beard is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Burning Beard For This Useful Post:
Old 12-03-2022, 06:00 PM   #412
PepsiFree
Participant
Participant
 
PepsiFree's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bingo View Post
I think Lewis does for sure.

But Ritchie (in comparison)?

No cup history. Way less intimidation factor. Never discussed as a leader on the team or an important part in the room.

Trust me man, I'm not making a case to move Lucic up the roster ... I'm just saying more than goals and assists come into him holding down a fourth line role.
Maybe. Weíre not in the room or on the ice with any of these guys so who really knows.

Holding down a regular 4th line spot might be more than goals and assists. In fact, I know it is. I thought Jarnkrok was great in his time here despite producing nothing. But his defensive game was fantastic. Whatís Lucic doing on the ice?

Intangibles are great. But NHLers have to bring something tangible to the table, too. And itís hard to see with him lately.
PepsiFree is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2022, 06:02 PM   #413
Bingo
Owner
 
Bingo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Calgary
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathgod View Post
On ice numbers literally say what the team does when you're on the ice...
Huh?

I'm saying that if intangibles exist, and players throughout the lineup play differently when he's in the lineup then his own personal on ice numbers don't need to improve.

Said the exact thing above.
Bingo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2022, 06:03 PM   #414
Bingo
Owner
 
Bingo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Calgary
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PepsiFree View Post
Maybe. Weíre not in the room or on the ice with any of these guys so who really knows.

Holding down a regular 4th line spot might be more than goals and assists. In fact, I know it is. I thought Jarnkrok was great in his time here despite producing nothing. But his defensive game was fantastic. Whatís Lucic doing on the ice?

Intangibles are great. But NHLers have to bring something tangible to the table, too. And itís hard to see with him lately.
But he can't be waived nor sent down and his massive hurdle to stay in the lineup is Kevin Rooney and Brett Ritchie.

That's it.

This isn't mount rushmore here
Bingo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2022, 06:04 PM   #415
Mathgod
Franchise Player
 
Mathgod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Exp:
Default

Players throughout the lineup might play better if he's in the lineup, whether he's on the ice or not, because of who he is.

You know what, maybe. But I just don't see it. Sorry.
__________________
Mathgod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2022, 06:05 PM   #416
Bingo
Owner
 
Bingo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Calgary
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathgod View Post
Players throughout the lineup might play better if he's in the lineup, whether he's on the ice or not, because of who he is.

You know what, maybe. But I just don't see it. Sorry.
No need to apologize

Wasn't assuming you and I would come to one mind on this at any point.
Bingo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2022, 06:38 PM   #417
Mr.Coffee
damn onions
 
Mr.Coffee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Exp:
Default

Well anyway I’m glad in the end that we all agree, in conclusion, they should call up Phillips.

Last edited by Mr.Coffee; 12-03-2022 at 06:42 PM.
Mr.Coffee is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Mr.Coffee For This Useful Post:
Old 12-03-2022, 06:51 PM   #418
PepsiFree
Participant
Participant
 
PepsiFree's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bingo View Post
But he can't be waived nor sent down and his massive hurdle to stay in the lineup is Kevin Rooney and Brett Ritchie.

That's it.

This isn't mount rushmore here
Which just cycles us back to the fact that having both Rooney and Lucic in the lineup given how little theyíre adding in terms of ďtangiblesĒ is difficult to justify when guys on the farm are making a case for a spot.

Rooney shouldnít be on the team. Lucic should be subbing for injuries. Thatís it.
PepsiFree is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to PepsiFree For This Useful Post:
Old 12-03-2022, 07:38 PM   #419
tony-soprano
Scoring Winger
 
Join Date: Feb 2021
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bingo View Post
If Lucic makes his teammates play taller because of his size and intimidation, get more ready because of his room presence, or inspire them because of who the guy is he can very much help the Flames out score the opposition without hitting the goal sheet itself.

That's just a very limited view on things.
Imagine replacing Lucic with Phillips. Zadorov is big, canít fight..so that would make Ritchie our de facto enforcer. Phillips, Mangs and Dube would get bullied real fast.
tony-soprano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2022, 07:42 PM   #420
Paulie Walnuts
#1 Goaltender
 
Paulie Walnuts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2022
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tony-soprano View Post
Imagine replacing Lucic with Phillips. Zadorov is big, canít fight..so that would make Ritchie our de facto enforcer. Phillips, Mangs and Dube would get bullied real fast.
It's not how the league works it's a skill league trying to win games not start fights this isn't the UFC.

Sutter loves the great guys in the room anyone remember Darren McCarty great leadership lol.
Paulie Walnuts is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:22 PM.

Calgary Flames
2022-23




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright Calgarypuck 2021