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Old 01-10-2023, 12:13 PM   #2561
Erick Estrada
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I think of that every day when I walk my kids through a cloud of exhaust from idling pick-up trucks lined up at the school. Now that really GMGs!
Not saying it's not unpleasant but the reality is that most of that is water vapour.
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Old 01-10-2023, 12:25 PM   #2562
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Not saying it's not unpleasant but the reality is that most of that is water vapour.
It would be if catalytic converters weren't getting stolen and replaced with straight pipes because they're expensive... or possibly removed and not replaced for performance reasons.
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Old 01-10-2023, 12:32 PM   #2563
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Originally Posted by Erick Estrada View Post
Not saying it's not unpleasant but the reality is that most of that is water vapour.
This is silly. That minute amount of NOx and PM2.5 very significantly affects future health outcomes.

I mean, second hand smoke is mostly just air
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Old 01-10-2023, 12:34 PM   #2564
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This is silly. That minute amount of NOx and PM2.5 very significantly affects future health outcomes.

I mean, second hand smoke is mostly just air
What are you debating here exactly? I said most of the smoke was water vapour. Are you saying that's not true?
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Old 01-10-2023, 12:39 PM   #2565
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What are you debating here exactly? I said most of the smoke was water vapour. Are you saying that's not true?
He's saying that suggesting most of the exhaust is just water vapour is disingenuous, because it insinuates that the exposure to said exhaust is not harmful because water vapour is not itself harmful. The exhaust is mostly water vapour and water vapour is not harmful, but the minute amount of NOx and PM2.5 present in the rest of the exhaust (the part that isn't water vapour) is precisely what makes it harmful.
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Old 01-10-2023, 12:41 PM   #2566
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He's saying that suggesting most of the exhaust is just water vapour is disingenuous, because it insinuates that the exposure to said exhaust is not harmful because water vapour is not itself harmful. The exhaust is mostly water vapour and water vapour is not harmful, but the minute amount of NOx and PM2.5 present in the rest of the exhaust that isn't water vapour is precisely what makes it harmful.
I never said that it isn't or can't be harmful. Just that it's water vapour not smoke. In regards to NOx and PM2.5 you would have to have some serious respiratory issues for this to be an issue if you are just walking by. SP has got a little cranky over the years.
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Old 01-10-2023, 12:49 PM   #2567
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What are you debating here exactly? I said most of the smoke was water vapour. Are you saying that's not true?
Stop being obtuse. I didn't say you were incorrect and you know exactly what I'm saying. Being mostly water vapour is irrelevant if someone is worried about walking their kids through vehicle exhaust everyday. It's not the water vapour they're worried about
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Old 01-10-2023, 12:50 PM   #2568
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I mean, you're not even really correct when you say it's "mostly" water vapor, unless you think 53% is most

C8H16 + 12.5 O2 -> 8 C02 + 9 H20

Besides, as others have pointed out, "Most" doesn't really matter here anyway.
I mean beer is mostly water, but that doesn't mean I can drink a gallon of it before I go for a drive.
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Old 01-10-2023, 12:52 PM   #2569
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I mean, you're not even really correct when you say it's "mostly" water vapor, unless you think 53% is most

C8H16 + 12.5 O2 -> 8 C02 + 9 H20

Besides, as others have pointed out, "Most" doesn't really matter here anyway.
I mean beer is mostly water, but that doesn't mean I can drink a gallon of it before I go for a drive.
Sure you can. I mean...you shouldnt, but you can...
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Old 01-10-2023, 01:02 PM   #2570
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I mean, you're not even really correct when you say it's "mostly" water vapor, unless you think 53% is most

C8H16 + 12.5 O2 -> 8 C02 + 9 H20

Besides, as others have pointed out, "Most" doesn't really matter here anyway.
I mean beer is mostly water, but that doesn't mean I can drink a gallon of it before I go for a drive.
C02 doesn’t create smoke though. It is transparent and from a respiratory standpoint harmless. So the “smoke” you see is mostly water Vapour because you can’t see the C02. It’s pedantic but correct.

It’s the Nox and other particulate that is toxic.

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Old 01-10-2023, 01:08 PM   #2571
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C02 doesnít create smoke though. It is transparent and from a respiratory standpoint harmless.

Itís the Nox and other particulate that is toxic.
That's not really the point.
He said it's "Mostly" water varour, which besides the fact that it's completely irrelevant to whether or not walking through plumes of exhaust gasses is harmful, it's also, not really true.

Throwing out a statement that is questionable false, and unquestionable irrelevant is useless.

It's like telling a vegetarian that most of their veggie burger isn't meat.
It's not a particularly reassuring statement.
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Old 01-10-2023, 01:10 PM   #2572
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C02 doesn’t create smoke though. It is transparent and from a respiratory standpoint harmless. So the “smoke” you see is mostly water Vapour because you can’t see the C02. It’s pedantic but correct.

It’s the Nox and other particulate that is toxic.
NOx is colourless and odorless (not saying it's not there). It's just one of those things where I'm a stickler for correcting that it's not smoke just like it drives me crazy when people call engines "motors". Honestly I don't want this to sidetrack the Musk twitter stuff but I think SP just read my post the wrong way.
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Old 01-10-2023, 01:15 PM   #2573
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Hard to believe people are concerned about access to safe drinking water or crop irrigation when all of the oceans are mostly water.
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Old 01-10-2023, 01:16 PM   #2574
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hard to believe people are concerned about access to safe drinking water or crop irrigation when all of the oceans are mostly salt water.
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Old 01-10-2023, 01:56 PM   #2575
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Not saying it's not unpleasant but the reality is that most of that is water vapour.
A lot of substances can cause health effects at very low concentrations. People often take medication with water and the water is the largest portion of what they consume, but that is not what matters or what affects their body.
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Old 01-10-2023, 02:00 PM   #2576
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Hard to believe people are concerned about access to safe drinking water or crop irrigation when all of the oceans are mostly water.
You're right! I shouldn't complain about the drinking water in Eygpt that gave me diarrhea. I mean it was mostly water.
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Old 01-10-2023, 02:14 PM   #2577
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A lot of substances can cause health effects at very low concentrations. People often take medication with water and the water is the largest portion of what they consume, but that is not what matters or what affects their body.
Edit. You know, I will take the high road here. You mentioned "cloud of exhaust" and the water vapour is a byproduct of the combustion process and part of the engine exhaust. So it's still technically an exhaust cloud so my bad. If you said "exhaust smoke" my post would have been more apt.

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Old 01-10-2023, 02:28 PM   #2578
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It's just the stupidest, most pedantic thing to correct them on, is all.

The 'cloud' of exhaust is only visible because of the water vapour, but it's the particulate and sh-t you can't see which is the concern... and the visible "iT's MoStLy WaTeR VaPoUr" is an indication that the non-visible particulate is also present.

No one gives two f-cks about the water vapour, it's what its presence indicates. Jesus.
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Old 01-10-2023, 02:32 PM   #2579
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It's just the stupidest, most pedantic thing to correct them on, is all.

The 'cloud' of exhaust is only visible because of the water vapour, but it's the particulate and sh-t you can't see which is the concern... and the visible "iT's MoStLy WaTeR VaPoUr" is an indication that the non-visible particulate is also present.

No one gives two f-cks about the water vapour, it's what its presence indicates. Jesus.
I don't think you realize that a large portion of the population does not know the difference between water vapour and exhaust smoke. You know how many times I have heard people talk about the smoke billowing from homes? It's just my reaction to those quotes. I think some of you need to realize that just because the internet is serious business to some, I'm just killing time when I'm here for the most part.

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Old 01-10-2023, 03:04 PM   #2580
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I don't think you realize that a large portion of the population does not know the difference between water vapour and exhaust smoke.
I realize that, but I also realize that their concern lies not within the benign components of said exhaust smoke but the harmful parts whose presence are indicated by there being exhaust smoke in the first place.
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