I feel that as Canadians, we are in the fortunate position that as we discuss legalization/decriminalization of pot, we can look towards colorado and washington to see the short and long term real world effects. So far in Colorado, we've seen that legalizing pot has started to put legal dispensaries out of business, as the price for pot has dropped significantly (which would have a huge impact on growers). now whether that price drop is mitigated by placing a tax on it is left to be seen.
I think it's good that we have a real life "petri dish" so that people that are for/against can use actual stats in their arguments, instead of the usual hypothetical statements, such as "weed is a gateway drug", or "weed will end gangs"...etc.
Last edited by smoothpops; 07-26-2013 at 04:12 PM.
Like another poster said, I'll bet most people tried alcohol before they tried pot. Most were probably under the infuence of alcohol the first time they tried pot.
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The concept of a sugar high was disproven a while ago as a mental effect.
And alcohol has a definite effect on an alcoholic. But there is one consistency in alcoholic beverages and that's alcohol itself is consistant. Beer, rum, scotch etc all produce the exact same high. You get the same buzz with different measurements.
Dope has a different high then meth then crack then etc. They are different chemicals effecting your brain in different ways.
There are people out there that started on grass and moved to harder drugs for the possible cheaper more intense high or feeling of well being or whatever.
Does that grass causes make some people chase a greater high, we've seen interviews especially with addictive personalities where they liked the high of grass and they wanted that feeling in greater concentration.
Does it in my mind effect the legalization argument. To me not really I'm on board with legalizing dope, but the level of research into grass is nowhere near as big as the level of research into alcohol and tobacco and that consistent level of knowledge does have to be there.
This is a persons choice no different than an alcoholics. I do see your point, I'm not arguing that pot can't be harmful in a variety ways. My argument is so can many things that are legal, and things we consider a part of our daily lives.
I do agree with your point about developing minds though, and that should likely be an age limit on it higher than booze (another poster suggested 21, which I think would be a good idea).
It's just that in my view, the people that want this stuff (any drug/fix) will find it. The people that don't want it, won't use it. I realize this argument can be made for all drugs, and my only real argument to that is: Camaaaan man, it's weed.
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Like another poster said, I'll bet most people tried alcohol before they tried pot. Most were probably under the infuence of alcohol the first time they tried pot.
This is a great point that I never even really considered. Would have had that bong hoot if you hadn't also been drunk. Come to think of it, would you have even come to this party without either of those things? Again it just comes down to a personal choice.
I know when I first smoked I wasn't drunk. Because I made a point and resisted it (while at UVic), because I wanted to do it first with a good buddy from back home. I think it's a great memory.
If you haven't smoked pot by the age of 25, its because at some point, you made the choice not to. Not because it wasn't available.
As far as pot being a gateway drug, I think that pot being illegal is more of a problem with it being a gateway drug as the drug dealers may also be selling other more dangerous drugs. Also the fact that buying pot is illegal makes crossing the line to other drugs easier.
I say legalize pot, tax it and put strict government age limits, growing restrictions and potency restrictions on it.
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I had a much easier time getting booze rather than weed in my highschool years... This was due to one of our best friends' family owning the local grocery store/liquor store. We'd wander in after hours, she'd disable the alarm, and we would pick from a 20ft, 3 tier shelf. That was awesome.
To get weed, we would have to zip over to the next town and buy from a guy who rarely had it... And when he did have it, it was 50 bucks per 1/8. And the 1/8's were actually 1/16's... That was not awesome.
Anyways, I too support the decriminalization of marijuana, but a lot of homework is required before it can be completely legalized/taxed/sold commercially. Way too many variables involved there...
My point was the whole notion of "gateway drug" is flawed. You can't point at the easiest, most accessible drug and blame it for people moving on to harder stuff. The people who are prone to moving to substances like Crack and Heroin are going to do it anyways.
I could maybe see a connection between other "soft" drugs like MDMA and Shrooms, but there is a massive, massive gap between those and things like crack, meth and heroin. I bet the majority of people on here have done, would be willing to try or know people who have done ecstasy or shrooms but I bet very few know anyone who has jumped to the harder stuff. It takes a special type of person to ignore the very well known stigma with those.
Honestly I think connecting those would be like claiming that anyone who has killed insects is bound to become a serial killer.
As far as pot being a gateway drug, I think that pot being illegal is more of a problem with it being a gateway drug as the drug dealers may also be selling other more dangerous drugs. Also the fact that buying pot is illegal makes crossing the line to other drugs easier.
IMO pot is a gateway drug precisely because it is illegal. People try it, think that's not that bad, perhaps not as bad as alcohol. So why is it illegal and alcohol isn't? The question then can quite easily move on to, "What else is illegal that is worth trying besides pot?" It makes someone question the line that has been drawn. It undermines the credibility of the laws determining what is legal and what isn't. People lose faith in laws they don't agree with.
There's your gateway right there. You draw a different line in the sand and put pot on the legal side and it loses the gateway aspect.
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'States rights' is a pretty big deal in the US. Usually it is cover for being racists, but it has a legitimate issue this time.
Once several more, perhaps more populous border states ratify (which will be in the next couple of years) it will become increasingly more difficult for the federal government to intercede.
No president wants a bunch of states up in arms at him at any point during his tenure. Colorado for example is an incredibly important state in terms of the electoral college. If Colorado had passed legislation half way through Obama's term and then his administration had come down heavy handedly on the state, he would have lost their electoral votes.
Ohio would be an interesting state to pour money into as marijuana legalization activists as the state seems to be the gatekeeper to presidential elections.
IMO pot is a gateway drug precisely because it is illegal. People try it, think that's not that bad, perhaps not as bad as alcohol. So why is it illegal and alcohol isn't? The question then can quite easily move on to, "What else is illegal that is worth trying besides pot?" It makes someone question the line that has been drawn. It undermines the credibility of the laws determining what is legal and what isn't. People lose faith in laws they don't agree with.
There's your gateway right there. You draw a different line in the sand and put pot on the legal side and it loses the gateway aspect.
In addition to that, it's a gateway to relationships with unsavoury characters. Buddy gives his friend some pot, friend likes it so then buddy gives him the contact info of his dealer. Friend then decides to buy some pot from the dealer. After a while, the dealer would probably try to sell him on harder stuff.
Edit: Oh, I see that's exactly what Vulcan said pretty much.
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Even that though, I don't know what other people's experiences have been, but I've used many different dealers since I started smoking and not one has offered me anything else (maybe the odd weed product like hash or butter). I'm not sure anyone I've ever bought weed off of sold anything else.
I personally think something like cocaine would be more of a gateway drug to things like meth and heroin. But as established, I don't have any experience with stuff like that.
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I personally think something like cocaine would be more of a gateway drug to things like meth and heroin. But as established, I don't have any experience with stuff like that.
Even that hasn't seemed to be very common in my experience. I'm sure there's studies that say the opposite of what I think, but I honestly think drugs have more to do with who you hang out with and what's available, then a natural progression of one drug being a gateway to the next.
People who do cocaine usually do it because people they hang out with other people who do it, and I haven't really seen anyone go "man, I need to get to the next level!".
It seems like there's different groups, lets say....
Group 1
Weed
Group 2
Powdered cocaine
exctasy
Group 3
Crack
Meth
Heroine
Personally, I think people tend to stick those groups. I'd barely call group 1 a drug group, group 2 is a "party drug" group and the third is hard drugs.
You don't really see the blow and exctacy crowd taking that step into the instant life destroying hard drugs, and likewise you don't typically see people going from weed to the party drugs, and if they do it usually has nothing to do with the fact they smoke weed.
Anyways, just an fyi that's completely based on personal experience and not at all on facts.
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Even that hasn't seemed to be very common in my experience. I'm sure there's studies that say the opposite of what I think, but I honestly think drugs have more to do with who you hang out with and what's available, then a natural progression of one drug being a gateway to the next.
People who do cocaine usually do it because people they hang out with other people who do it, and I haven't really seen anyone go "man, I need to get to the next level!".
It seems like there's different groups, lets say....
Group 1
Weed
Group 2
Powdered cocaine
exctasy
Group 3
Crack
Meth
Heroine
Personally, I think people tend to stick those groups. I'd barely call group 1 a drug group, group 2 is a "party drug" group and the third is hard drugs.
You don't really see the blow and exctacy crowd taking that step into the instant life destroying hard drugs, and likewise you don't typically see people going from weed to the party drugs, and if they do it usually has nothing to do with the fact they smoke weed.
Anyways, just an fyi that's completely based on personal experience and not at all on facts.
Nailed it.
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Even that hasn't seemed to be very common in my experience. I'm sure there's studies that say the opposite of what I think, but I honestly think drugs have more to do with who you hang out with and what's available, then a natural progression of one drug being a gateway to the next.
People who do cocaine usually do it because people they hang out with other people who do it, and I haven't really seen anyone go "man, I need to get to the next level!".
It seems like there's different groups, lets say....
Group 1
Weed
Group 2
Powdered cocaine
exctasy
Group 3
Crack
Meth
Heroine
Personally, I think people tend to stick those groups. I'd barely call group 1 a drug group, group 2 is a "party drug" group and the third is hard drugs.
You don't really see the blow and exctacy crowd taking that step into the instant life destroying hard drugs, and likewise you don't typically see people going from weed to the party drugs, and if they do it usually has nothing to do with the fact they smoke weed.
Anyways, just an fyi that's completely based on personal experience and not at all on facts.
There are lots of cases of people moving up in groups. Heck watch shows like Intervention, or even some other shows. People move up the groups. They don't move down.
There are lots of cases of people that start with weed and end of as meth or crack users.
There's rarely if ever cases of people moving down.
I think your making an incorrect assumption based on absolutes that aren't there.
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