2019/2020 Trade Speculation and Rumors 2.0

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by Crown Royal

Maybe not in this thread, but I've seen you repeatedly call him terrible through the playoffs

Well I stand by that. He was the Flames' worst defenseman by far in the playoffs. Lost count of his brutal turnovers.

I have no idea what his analytics were off-hand but from what I witnessed he was a "defensive defenseman" who was very poor defensively.

[Harry Lime]

Some downplaying of value in this thread for some reason. In order :

Monahan
Hanifin
Gaudreau

and Gaudreau is worth a young roster player, a middle first and a high risk/high reward prospect. The others are worth more.

Edit : putting it in Toronto dollars... Johnny is worth Ilya Mikheyev, 15th overall, and Nick Robertson. They don't have the bullets in the chamber for Hanifin or Monahan. No reason to cut value short.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

First, it wasn't my idea to trade Hanifin, someone suggested swapping him for Debrusk and I responded by saying IF he's traded for a forward it should be a young C not a winger.

Second, I just replied before your post saying if it was Zacha it would have to be Zacha +

And thirdly, Hanifin is not our #2 Dman.

After those playoffs I would say he is.

Rasmus Andersson #1
Noah Hanifin #2
Mark Giordano #3

Unless Gio takes a dunk in the fountain of youth again.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

After those playoffs I would say he is.

Rasmus Andersson #1
Noah Hanifin #2
Mark Giordano #3

Unless Gio takes a dunk in the fountain of youth again.

Gio was still taking all the tough assignments.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Well I stand by that. He was the Flames' worst defenseman by far in the playoffs. Lost count of his brutal turnovers.

I have no idea what his analytics were off-hand but from what I witnessed he was a "defensive defenseman" who was very poor defensively.

I don’t see the appeal in bringing him back. But I guess it’s a thing any fan will do. Let’s bring so and so back if they’re willing to sign some team friendly deal. A few people were saying that about Wideman in his last year.

You simply have to be able to produce this quality of a player from your own system or else just go bargain bin shopping with no real regard to where they played last year.

[Crown Royal]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Well I stand by that. He was the Flames' worst defenseman by far in the playoffs. Lost count of his brutal turnovers.

I have no idea what his analytics were off-hand but from what I witnessed he was a "defensive defenseman" who was very poor defensively.

See this is exactly my issue with you. It's like you focus on mistakes by guys of that ilk or you don't like, blow them out of proportion and then blatantly ignore giveaways by other defensemen whose style of play you prefer.

Forbort was credited with the fewest giveaways on the entire blueline, at 5. Hanifin on the other hand, who only played 1:21 more per night was credited with 14. Brodie was credited with the most at 17.

The way they track turnovers is flawed, but that is a dramatic difference for you not to notice and think there was so many you "lost count". Of course, I am working on the assumption you can count to a number higher than 5.

Also., the fact you think he was worse than Gustafsson, completely proves my point, as Gus is a modern day Andy Delmore.

[TheScorpion]

I don't see the point in giving Forbort NHL minutes when it's probably safe to assume that Connor Mackey or Oliver Kylington would be just as successful, at the very least.

Edit: regarding the above post, well, those numbers sure are something. I wouldn't have correctly guessed those raw figures. That said it still doesn't change my perception of Forbort as a slow defenseman with poor breakout abilities and who often created turnovers for his forwards by putting them in poor situations with bad decisions. He is constantly losing coverage and positioning.

There are many, many defensive defensemen who I like. Derek Forbort is not a defensive defenseman.

[Crown Royal]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

I don't see the point in giving Forbort NHL minutes when it's probably safe to assume that Connor Mackey or Oliver Kylington would be just as successful, at the very least.

No one was talking about bringing Forbort back, just discussing what he would get as a UFA

[Husky]

I could see the flames out of no where trading for a guy like Rakell on a rebuilding ducks team.

[Sandman]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

I don't see the point in giving Forbort NHL minutes when it's probably safe to assume that Connor Mackey or Oliver Kylington would be just as successful, at the very least.

Yeah, they need to start giving Kylington a chance.

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by Crown Royal

No one was talking about bringing Forbort back, just discussing what he would get as a UFA

Yes they were. This discussion originated from me calling someone out for penciling in the Flames re-signing Forbort at $3.33 million per year.

[Crown Royal]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Yes they were. This discussion originated from me calling someone out for penciling in the Flames re-signing Forbort at $3.33 million per year.

My bad, I missed that proposal. But regardless, you as always take an unneeded hyperbolic dump on any defenseman that isn't puck moving defenseman.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

I don't see the point in giving Forbort NHL minutes when it's probably safe to assume that Connor Mackey or Oliver Kylington would be just as successful, at the very least.

Edit: regarding the above post, well, those numbers sure are something. I wouldn't have correctly guessed those raw figures. That said it still doesn't change my perception of Forbort as a slow defenseman with poor breakout abilities and who often created turnovers for his forwards by putting them in poor situations with bad decisions. He is constantly losing coverage and positioning.

There are many, many defensive defensemen who I like. Derek Forbort is not a defensive defenseman.

Any chance Lerby is ready to step in as well?

Yelesin is ready for more games probably too.

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by Crown Royal

My bad, I missed that proposal. But regardless, you as always take an unneeded hyperbolic dump on any defenseman that isn't puck moving defenseman.

Again, this is false. I was a huge fan of Deryk Engelland and Robyn Regehr. I liked Dion. I loved what Travis Hamonic brought to the table in 2018-19, he was a true warrior on the back end who played tremendous defense. His other two years were not quite as good.

I loved Cory Sarich. I was a big fan of Kris Russell for a while. I liked Michael Stone when he first got here and I even enjoyed Dalton Prout.

Derek Forbort cost a decent pick and was substantially worse than any of these guys. I didn't like Anders Eriksson and he was free... Forbort was roughly as good and cost a fourth.

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Any chance Lerby is ready to step in as well?

Yelesin is ready for more games probably too.

I agree about Yelesin. I think Lerby starts in the A for sure unless he really wows in camp but if he does well, we could see a couple call-ups. Yelesin could challenge to be the 7 on opening night.

[Crown Royal]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

I didn't like Anders Eriksson and he was free... Forbort was roughly as good and cost a fourth

Again, another load of steaming bull####. We get it, you don't like Forbort, but my god your takes on him are incredibly bad.

[Beatle17]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

If you're trading Hanifin for a forward it would sure be nice if it was a comparably aged center. Like Zacha or Domi for example.

Jake Debrusk is 23. Domi is 25. I guess I am confused.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

If you're trading Hanifin for a forward it would sure be nice if it was a comparably aged center. Like Zacha or Domi for example.

Expansion draft throws a wrinkle into this.

Can you do Hanifin + a forward and get a legitimate top line player?

Otherwise, pending other moves, it's best to deal Hanifin for futures to better prepare the team in years to come.

[Crown Royal]

Originally Posted by Beatle17

Jake Debrusk is 23. Domi is 25. I guess I am confused.

DeBrusk is a winger, people seem to think Domi is a C, even though he's not particularly good at playing C.

[Beatle17]

Originally Posted by Crown Royal

DeBrusk is a winger, people seem to think Domi is a C, even though he's not particularly good at playing C.

He plays wing in Boston to get him on a line with Krejci and more ice time, his whole life and in the minors he played center. I don't see the love of Domi, but that is just me.

And play him with Monahan or Bennet when he gets here. Lots of great wingers needed on good teams also. Benn in Dallas, Kane in Chicago, Kucherov in Tampa (I know all great players and better than Debrusk). I would rather see great 3 defense on a team and a committee of forwards, but again that is just me.

[tkflames]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Derek Forbort cost a decent pick and was substantially worse than any of these guys. I didn't like Anders Eriksson and he was free... Forbort was roughly as good and cost a fourth.

How old were you when Anders Eriksson? I dont think you and I are talking about the same player if you are comparing him to Derek Forbort.

In general I like your posts but this is ridiculous...this is like me thinking Rick Tabaracci was one of the great flame goalies of all time because of game 4 against Chicago in 96 when I was probably a similar age as you were when Eriksson played. Unfortunately that sentiment doesn't hold up today...and neither does your ridiculous take.