Humboldt Broncos tragedy.

[bluejays]

I think most here understand that this wasn't a black and white case, and really something that wasn't deserving of something more punitive. It's disappointing he got what he did, and the judge should be chastised for coming up with that. People driving drunk and killed have got less. I hope there can be some justice for him in his appeal (if he chooses to do so), because it really helps nobody.

[TheSquatch]

https://www.ngnews.ca/news/regional/...-people-83219/



Drunk guy drives cement truck into family, gets 8.

Not that it matters, but ... you can't do this kind of thing.

[Strange Brew]

A large truck is a dangerous weapon. Drivers of those trucks owe the rest of the population a duty of care.

I truly feel symapthy for the driver and of course the families, but the accident was avoidable and as humans, we need to appreciate our actions have consequences. We need to hold ourselves accountable IMO.

I don’t know the right answer. And vengeance is the last thing from my mind. But that doesn’t mean I don’t think the driver did something absolutely horrible here.

[Huntingwhale]

Nobody wins in a case like this. Prison time won't bring the victims back, true. But no one is suggesting a harsher penalty would. But you can't just let the person directly responsible to just walk away. They need to be held accountable, and serving time in prison is a way to do that.

[GullFoss]

An 8y sentence = out on parole after 2-2.5 years I would guess, which seems ok to me. I think 6 years would have been more reasonable, but either way this guy will never be the same. I doubt he cares about the extra 3-6m of jail-time right now.

[Fan in Exile]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

An 8y sentence = out on parole after 2-2.5 years I would guess, which seems ok to me. I think 6 years would have been more reasonable, but either way this guy will never be the same. I doubt he cares about the extra 3-6m of jail-time right now.

It is an exceptionally severe sentence, especially taking his immigration circumstances into account. He does have an opportunity to make submissions that he not be deported in writing but has no right to an appeal hearing and it is exceedingly rare that such discretion is used to set aside removal for someone who is given such a severe sentence.

At least he will most likely go to minimum security but given that he will have a deportation order, he won't be eligible for day parole or early parole despite otherwise qualifying and will go directly from release on parole to detention for removal, which will be carried out immediately.

[lazypucker]

Off topic, say if you are a naturalized Canadian citizen, will you get your citizenship revoked and be deported back to your country of origin?

[Fan in Exile]

Originally Posted by lazypucker

Off topic, say if you are a naturalized Canadian citizen, will you get your citizenship revoked and be deported back to your country of origin?

No. If the same accident takes place the day after his citizenship ceremony, there would be no immigration consequences.

[Redlan]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

His sentence is that he will live with this for the rest of his life.



Eight years seems a bit like piling on to me. But I understand the need for a penalty that is somehow representative of the loss (though that is of course, entirely impossible).



There is no win here.

Why do people keep putting themselves in someone else’s position and assume that they feel the same way that you would feel? Pretty presumptuous.
Also I don’t get the idea that consequences are a “win” or “lose” scenario, especially when 16 lives were lost and so many more impacted. That probably is your point, I just don’t ever see how, as an observer, looking for win in this tragedy is going to directly benefit or be a detriment to those involved.


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[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Redlan

Why do people keep putting themselves in someone else’s position and assume that they feel the same way that you would feel? Pretty presumptuous.
Also I don’t get the idea that consequences are a “win” or “lose” scenario, especially when 16 lives were lost and so many more impacted. That probably is your point, I just don’t ever see how, as an observer, looking for win in this tragedy is going to directly benefit or be a detriment to those involved.


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So what are you suggesting?

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Redlan

Why do people keep putting themselves in someone else’s position and assume that they feel the same way that you would feel? Pretty presumptuous.
Also I don’t get the idea that consequences are a “win” or “lose” scenario, especially when 16 lives were lost and so many more impacted. That probably is your point, I just don’t ever see how, as an observer, looking for win in this tragedy is going to directly benefit or be a detriment to those involved.


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Empathy and the ability to have it is one of a humanities best qualities actually.

You may think it’s presumptuous but it’s how we broaden understanding.

[Redlan]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

So what are you suggesting?

Sorry that I singled out your post, my comment was directed at multiple sentiments and posts. I get that you and I may “have to live with this the rest of {my} life” if it we were found guilty of a similar tragedy, but to project ones own values and feelings into the guilty parties persona does not mean that is what they feel as we would. There is going to be a long lasting impact from this incident, and my thoughts are with those who are/were innocent, not those that are guilty.


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[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Fan in Exile

No. If the same accident takes place the day after his citizenship ceremony, there would be no immigration consequences.

And nor should there be.

[Redlan]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Empathy and the ability to have it is one of a humanities best qualities actually.



You may think it’s presumptuous but it’s how we broaden understanding.

I do not disagree that it is one of our greatest qualities. However, empathy in this case should focus on the victims. I tell you one thing, the thought of me losing a son to a tragedy like this evokes a SUBSTANTIALLY stronger emotion than the thought of me being found guilty of taking 16 lives.


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[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Redlan

I do not disagree that it is one of our greatest qualities. However, empathy in this case should focus on the victims. I tell you one thing, the thought of me losing a son to a tragedy like this evokes a SUBSTANTIALLY stronger emotion than the thought of me being found guilty of taking 16 lives.


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This seems presumptuous.

[dre]

Originally Posted by Redlan

I do not disagree that it is one of our greatest qualities. However, empathy in this case should focus on the victims. I tell you one thing, the thought of me losing a son to a tragedy like this evokes a SUBSTANTIALLY stronger emotion than the thought of me being found guilty of taking 16 lives.

How would you feel if it were your son driving the truck?

[transplant99]

Again I will ask..if 8 years for taking 16 lives seems excessive, what is the appropriate punishment? (Again I will point out it is more likely than not he will be released in less than 5)

Or should there be no punishment instilled by the justice system...but only in this case?

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Again I will ask..if 8 years for taking 16 lives seems excessive, what is the appropriate punishment? (Again I will point out it is more likely than not he will be released in less than 5)

Or should there be no punishment instilled by the justice system...but only in this case?

There is no appropriate punishment. That is the point.

Nothing will change the tragedy, nothing (punitively) will aid the victims and those affected.

8 years, 5 years, 20 years, even 2 years, really changes nothing. It won't change the outcome, it won't help avoid the next incident, it doesn't change the punitive value of the exercise, there is no need to 'make him think twice next time', there is nothing to be accomplished from the length of the term.

That does not mean that there shouldn't be jail time, just that there is no right answer, or even a particular goal to be achieved by the length of it - other than, something had to be done and he had to pay a penalty.

[GGG]

I think this is the first case where the deportation provision seems very severe. I don’t see any likelihood of reoffense here. The 8 years doesn’t bother me too much as being on parole in 2-3 seems reasonable as their needs to be a consequence despite a lack of intent but then being deported from your life is too severe for this crime.

Does he have a family here or is he a single guy?

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Northendzone

i was thinking it woujld be interesting to know what the families thought of the sentence, my guess is that they are likely all over the map similar to how we have different opinions....almost a year to see this come to some conclusion

Chances are that most will be satisfied with how high it is for the crime he was charged with, though obviously a few will always think it is too little. That's natural.

Chances are also that many of them will feel differently when his parole comes up. That's when it will really hit them that he is 'free' while their relatives are still dead. That's going to be the next big emotional-legal hurdle for them.