Flames' Advanced Statistics

[DeluxeMoustache]

That game wasn’t on Markstrom, and you won’t find me saying it was

But you also won’t find me saying that Markstrom stopped any difficult shots that game or should be found on the highlight reel.

He didn’t live up to his contract this year, which was based on his career year last year. What’s done is done. Year 1 burned and we turn our eyes to year 2

[dino7c]

If you score 2 or less goals its pretty hard to blame the goalie IMO (1 or zero you can't)

You won't find many game the Flames scored 3 and lost

And if the Flames can't score because their goalie is allowing goals IDK what to make of that...get some new scorers I guess.

[DeluxeMoustache]

^ yeah, nobody’s saying that

You appear to be setting up that argument and then arguing against it

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by theinfinitejar

I don't believe this, a big analytics guy doesn't trade a 1st and 2 2nds for Travis Hamonic or sign the Brouwer contract.

The exact word I remember hearing about Treliving was that he was at the "forefront" of the analytics push because at the time, analytics was more niche than it is today. It's everywhere now, but back in 2014, it was not.

I can't specifically comment on why Brad liked Brouwer or Hamonic specifically. Who knows, he has a team of people to listen to right? So maybe Brouwer's playoff run impressed someone. I do know that Treliving loved Hamonic for whatever reason though. Brian Burke told the story about Brad's interest for that specific player, so much so that he had Brian Burke scout him out to confirm.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

^ yeah, nobody’s saying that

You appear to be setting up that argument and then arguing against it

"Markstrom almost single handedly drags the Flames out of the playoffs" was said

It was also said that the Flames have more trouble scoring because its harder to score when the goalie is allowing goals and you are behind.

you often jump in and quote me out of context in the middle of a debate...yes someone was saying that.


Amazing the Panthers are at the top of the league with a 10M .906 goalie and our 6M .905 goalie single handedly cost us the playoffs

[DeluxeMoustache]

Yes, when he put up sub .900 stretches over double digit number of games, it’s bad.

When he had almost 1000 shots his sv% was just climbing back over .900 and the difference between that and good was some 15-20 goals

I don’t care if he has better numbers under Sutter recently . That stretch of crap goaltending cost the team a few games, as well as the poor offence

[DeluxeMoustache]

And yes the Panthers can afford to outscore poor goaltending. Nice luxury

Flames can’t. That doesn’t make Markstrom’s work good enough during the middle of the season

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by dino7c

"Markstrom almost single handedly drags the Flames out of the playoffs" was said

It was also said that the Flames have more trouble scoring because its harder to score when the goalie is allowing goals and you are behind.

you often jump in and quote me out of context in the middle of a debate...yes someone was saying that.


Amazing the Panthers are at the top of the league with a 10M .906 goalie and our 6M .905 goalie single handedly cost us the playoffs

Scoring is a problem and our goalie is godawful Both things can be true.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Scoring is a problem and our goalie is godawful Both things can be true.

He got his nickers in a knot because of my phrasing earlier in the thread and can't let it go.

My point was that Markstrom was so good last year he took a #### team and carried them into the playoffs.

Flames then sign him, a playoff team from last year without Markstrom, he was supposed to be an upgrade on our goaltending, and then he had a very poor year and the Flames missed the playoffs. If he plays this season as goos as he did last season and the Flames make the playoffs.

Basically I was making a joke about how every thing the Flames touch seems to turn into crap, especially this laughably horrible season.

[timbit]

Every player making 6 mil per annum and above ,was fair to well below average over the first 35-40 games (some longer).

No playoffs is the result.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

He got his nickers in a knot because of my phrasing earlier in the thread and can't let it go.

My point was that Markstrom was so good last year he took a #### team and carried them into the playoffs.

Flames then sign him, a playoff team from last year without Markstrom, he was supposed to be an upgrade on our goaltending, and then he had a very poor year and the Flames missed the playoffs. If he plays this season as goos as he did last season and the Flames make the playoffs.

Basically I was making a joke about how every thing the Flames touch seems to turn into crap, especially this laughably horrible season.

Ya, it was a team effort of suck. But on the goaltending front, as a comparable, Koskinen had a .920 or better in 11 out of 26 games (42 percent). Markstrom had a .920 in 16 out of 41 games (39 percent) and Mike Smith had a .920 or better in 18 out of 32 games (56 percent). We got the equivalent of Koskinen this year unfortunately. If we get the equivalent of Mike Smith and Markstrom has 7 more games where he is .920 or better, we probably win 4 or 5 of those additional games and it is a different story.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by dino7c

It was also said that the Flames have more trouble scoring because its harder to score when the goalie is allowing goals and you are behind.

I mean, this is a fact. Teams score fewer goals when they are trailing. And teams trail more when their goalies allow backbreaker goals against the flow of the play.

I've never said our goal scorers have been great, but considering the defensive style we play, they've been alright. The 2014 Kings were not a high scoring team either, playing Sutter hockey. The 2004 Flames were also not a high scoring team.

Our defensive style of play however, has not resulted in low GAAs. At best our GAA was average, despite strong defensive play.

That's on Markstrom and co.

[Calgary4LIfe]

I don't think there are many players that are blameless.



Heck, Tanev had a very strong defensive season, but I still think that's two much cap and too much ice-time for no offensive production in today's 'modern NHL'. If you disagree, then Tanev (and perhaps Mangiapane too!) are 100% blameless, while everyone else deserves some poop thrown in their direction.


Markstrom was a GOD to start the season. Then he became a sieve. Down this stretch, he has been 'fine' - it is arguable if he lost the Flames a couple of games, but that's about it. He most certainly didn't save any games that I can remember either, so he was just 'fine'.



The Flames' 6 million dollar man has to be better than fine. I bet he will be next season, but we will see. I disagree with the notion that if the goalie only lets in 2 goals, then you can't blame him. Of course you can blame him. What was the context to any of those two goals? Were the Flames dominating, and then he let in a stinker? Did he make any momentum changing saves? Were the Flames being shelled and it was a heroic performance to only allow 2 goals, or were they two ugly goals? Of course the skaters have to put the puck in the net too, but not being able to criticize a goalie for only allowing 2 goals isn't a valid argument, at least not without context. The context down the stretch is that Markstrom was good enough to win most games, but he wasn't 6 million bucks good enough. I hope that changes next season, and at this point, I don't blame him (entirely) for the Flames missing the playoffs. He is one of the reasons why they missed. They didn't miss because of Markstrom alone, nor did they miss in spite of Markstrom. Markstrom was very much like the rest of the team this season - simply not good enough most nights.


To start the season, the Markstrom was a God. Flames were playing HORRIBLE, but were mostly winning due to the God in net, a red hot PP, and a red hot SH% from Gaudreau.


When those 3 things cooled, Flames were terrible, Ward was fired, and the entire team sank.


Under Sutter, I think they have played mostly better, and the these metrics do a good job I would say of aligning with the eye test. However, I think only the Gaudreau line (ahem, Gaudreau himself specifically) has looked 'dangerous', and that greatly concerns me. However, I do think that the Flames have cleaned-up a lot of their game.


I am actually looking forward to next season. Sutter mentioned early on that he needs to make changes to the system, but that there wasn't enough time to do so, so he instead he made some tweaks. I am curious what those changes will be. I trust him to really think about it this upcoming off-season after learning first-hand what this team is all about.


I am both really looking forward to this upcoming off-season, while at the same time being very apprehensive about. BIG changes are probably needed, but I am also worried that some babies are going to be thrown out along with the bathwater. Bennett and Brodie were, IMO, some of the lone bright spots in every single playoff game this team has had under this current core. I am worried that some skilled players are going to be moved just for the sake of change, which I am afraid is going to both result in the same amount of success, but with an even crappier and more boring product to watch.


Tough job to do this upcoming off-season, but I do think the stats have aligned fairly well with what this team was this season.


Almost everyone on this team is to blame for being out of the playoffs, and that definitely includes Markstrom.

[Leeman4Gilmour]

Simple stats. Pretty good GA. Terrible GF. Monohan and Tkachuk are about 10 goals each below where one would have expected them to be. Add 20 goals to GF and it’s a different season.

[neo45]

Originally Posted by Leeman4Gilmour

Simple stats. Pretty good GA. Terrible GF. Monohan and Tkachuk are about 10 goals each below where one would have expected them to be. Add 20 goals to GF and it’s a different season.

Also a lack of production from the D core and they never really figured out who the PP1 quarterback was all season

Not sure if that’s a coaching failure, GM failure, or on the players but since Gio’s game has fallen off offensively from the Norris season our defense just isn’t dangerous offensively. No puck skills and they either miss the net or don’t get the shot through

I thought the Gustaffson addition was actually a nice bandaid solution for a very short period but obviously something they need to address more permanently moving forward