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Old 06-27-2020, 04:22 AM   #21
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As for the Flames, I think trading Iginla for nothing of significance was a worse move then the Neal signing.

Calgary got a first round pick for Iggy.

The alternative was watching him leave as a UFA 2 months later and getting zero.


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Old 06-27-2020, 08:29 AM   #22
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Old 06-28-2020, 10:48 PM   #23
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Calgary got a first round pick for Iggy.

The alternative was watching him leave as a UFA 2 months later and getting zero.


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In hindsight, there is no difference.
We ended up with nothing.
Feaster was a terrible GM.
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Old 06-28-2020, 11:23 PM   #24
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In hindsight, there is no difference.
We ended up with nothing.
Feaster was a terrible GM.
Disagree.

He was great with free agency. Feaster used it to create value, rather than to restrict the team. In fact, all of this RFA and UFA extensions were quite good as well.

Plus the drafting and developing overwhemlingly improved under him. Gone were the days of Greg Nemisz-type first round picks. This is huge. The Flames' 2011 picks have already played over 1000 games. It took until 2015 for drafting to really improve, but you can make an argument that the process started under Feaster.

Other than the Iginla, Bouwmeester, and O'Reilly fiascos, he was fine. Granted, these are substantial. The Regher trade was pretty bad as well, but the Flames got a lot of games out of Butler and Byron. Plus it created the cap space to sign Tanguay.

Guys like Hudler, Wideman, Russell, Stempniak were all acquired for practically nothing.

This doesn't add up to "terrible" imo.
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Old 06-28-2020, 11:28 PM   #25
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Disagree.

He was great with free agency. Feaster used it to create value, rather than to restrict the team. In fact, all of this RFA and UFA extensions were quite good as well.
We also narrowly missed out on having to buy out Brad Richards, but only because he wanted to play in the east so his grandpa could watch him play.
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Old 06-29-2020, 08:41 AM   #26
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In hindsight, there is no difference.
We ended up with nothing.
Feaster was a terrible GM.

That was a drafting issue, not a trade issue. Blames the scouts.


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Old 06-29-2020, 09:15 AM   #27
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Other than Kiprusoff, Daryl Sutter was way worse than Feaster.
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Old 06-29-2020, 09:24 AM   #28
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1. Trading Phaneuf for scraps
2. Trading Bouwmeester for nothing
3. Trading our captain too late and for nothing
4. Signing Neal
5. Signing Brouwer
6. Trading Regehr for scraps

Trading big names and UFA signing of 30+ yo middle 6 wingers are our biggest blunders of the past 10 years.
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Old 06-29-2020, 10:29 AM   #29
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In hindsight, there is no difference.
We ended up with nothing.
Feaster was a terrible GM.
We can all blame Feaster for all the mess that was created and the team pretty much spiraled down to the cellar. However, that mess was created from decades of crappy drafting. Then Darryl Sutter came along and became the GM that went even further and basically left the organization with practically nothing in the farms. During the Sutter(s) years, the Flames were always one to two players short up front to win it all and that's Darryl's mentality, but he got greedy on stacking up the defense and could never get the centerman depth that he needed to get the team over the top.

Feaster was brought in only to try and clean up the mess and was a scapegoat to tank the team. He had to free up the cap space so that they can spend on affordable free agents while they can start stocking up on talent through better drafting. As painful as it was to hold on to Iggy, it was practically a double edge sword for the team as they're going through the rebuild mode. Regehr's trade was the first huge blow to the team to try to free up salary. In a lot of cases, Feaster's hands were tied due to the limited trade agreements with the existing players on the roster. With what he got and with the positions in the draft as the Flames tanked, that was the best he could do. I think he did the best he could at the time. It's not ugly and it's not the best outcome, but it was a transition period. Feaster was there only to please the fans as much as possible for the entertainment aspect of the business.

To me, there are two of the worst decisions any team could of made in the last decade and the Flames did both at the same time back to back:

1) Instead of tanking properly, they decide to win against the Oilers in the final game of that one season. So, the Oilers actually placed themselves right above the Flames in the draft. They drafted Draisaitl while the Flames took Bennett.

2) The very next year, the Connor McDavid sweepstakes is on and the Flames went out with a bang while every team held back (except for Chicago and the Pens). I guess the Playoffs is far more important than a proper rebuilt. So, most of the teams lined up for the last possible free-for-all sweepstakes while the Flames decide they'd take the high road to get into the playoffs and got their party crashed heavily in the second round by the Ducks. Then, the next year, they weren't even close to making the playoffs.

If those two events aren't the dumbest things that any organizations could've done, I don't know what is. Take a look back in history, the Pens went back-to-back years of tanking for Lemieux and Jagr (tthere were some pretty great picking in between the two superstars as well). Then they did it again with Malkin, Crosby, Fleury, and Staal. The Caps did the same thing with Ovechkin and Backstrom. It'll be just a matter of time before the Oilers will win it all with all the high first round picks that they've had over the years no matter how much we hate it. Sometimes I wonder if Feaster had full control of the team rebuild, I think he would've took this team right down to the bottom, made everyone swallow that pride and build it back up with longer vision for success. However, with Burke coming in and then Treliving soon after, his hands were really never loosened to do his job as the one and only GM. Who knows if he could've done it, but one this is certain, he did the best he could with what he had on the table at those moments in time.
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Old 06-29-2020, 10:31 AM   #30
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^I think if the Flames had the Oilers pick they would have still drafted Sam.
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Old 06-29-2020, 12:51 PM   #31
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...They made the big trade that sent a disgruntled Hamilton away but managed to find gold with Lindholm and also Hanifin to an extent.

But then ROR gets moved and Treliving missed the boat on that one. Part of me wonders if at that point the newly acquired part time C Lindholm was part of the reason why BT didn't offer more than St. Louis did, or maybe it was also because they still had hope Bennett would get back on track with a new coach (Peters was hired that summer as well). Even still, should have got that one done...
I get the instinct to pillory specific managers or teams for not acquiring a given player in a trade or via UFA, but in actuality I don't think this is fair. In this instance we could put together a hypothetical package that either looks as good as St Louis's was for O'Reilly, but even if we assume that certain pieces and players were of the same value in the mind of Treliving, it is also still impossible to simultaneously read the mind of Buffalo's GM. For all we know, Botterill was fixated on acquiring Tage Thompson over whatever equivalent prospect Treliving might have offered; to that end, it could also be the case that Treliving was determined to retain his 2019 first-round draft pick, and it is not difficult to fault him for this given what had just transpired in the 2018 draft when NYI walked away with Noah Dobson, and the Flames were left without a pick until #105.

There are certainly enacted decisions for which the Flames should be faulted, including James Neal's UFA deal. However, the non-acquisition of Ryan O'Reilly is not one of them.
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Old 06-29-2020, 01:02 PM   #32
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...To me, there are two of the worst decisions any team could of made in the last decade and the Flames did both at the same time back to back:

1) Instead of tanking properly, they decide to win against the Oilers in the final game of that one season. So, the Oilers actually placed themselves right above the Flames in the draft. They drafted Draisaitl while the Flames took Bennett.
I agree with Jiri that the Flames would have selected Sam Bennett in 2014, even with the #3 selection, but you are going to have to elaborate on precisely how a team wins a game by merely "deciding" to do so.

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2) The very next year, the Connor McDavid sweepstakes is on and the Flames went out with a bang while every team held back (except for Chicago and the Pens). I guess the Playoffs is far more important than a proper rebuilt. So, most of the teams lined up for the last possible free-for-all sweepstakes while the Flames decide they'd take the high road to get into the playoffs and got their party crashed heavily in the second round by the Ducks. Then, the next year, they weren't even close to making the playoffs...
This is nonsense. Contrary to a seemingly common belief, NHL coaches and managers do not receive their marching orders from owners and management to the fact of "go out there and drop as many games as you possibly can." But more to the point, you appear to have a flawed memory of exactly how the 2014–15 season unfolded. In October of that year virtually NO ONE imagined that the Flames would be in the conversation for the playoffs by the Trade Deadline. There was never any opportunity for the Flames to "hold back" as you suggest in anticipation of participating in the draft lottery. Coaches and players play to win every god-damned time. The Flames were surging forward beyond every reasonable expectation to a playoff berth before Christmas.

It is positively unrealistic of anyone to expect that there was ever a chance for the Flames to win the 2015 draft lottery. It was never going to happen, and that is absolutely no fault of anyone's within the organization.
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Old 06-29-2020, 01:03 PM   #33
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I get the instinct to pillory specific managers or teams for not acquiring a given player in a trade or via UFA, but in actuality I don't think this is fair. In this instance we could put together a hypothetical package that either looks as good as St Louis's was for O'Reilly, but even if we assume that certain pieces and players were of the same value in the mind of Treliving, it is also still impossible to simultaneously read the mind of Buffalo's GM. For all we know, Botterill was fixated on acquiring Tage Thompson over whatever equivalent prospect Treliving might have offered; to that end, it could also be the case that Treliving was determined to retain his 2019 first-round draft pick, and it is not difficult to fault him for this given what had just transpired in the 2018 draft when NYI walked away with Noah Dobson, and the Flames were left without a pick until #105.

There are certainly enacted decisions for which the Flames should be faulted, including James Neal's UFA deal. However, the non-acquisition of Ryan O'Reilly is not one of them.
You're right, it's hard to call it a mistake when you have no idea the reasons behind not making the move for ROR. Did he even try? How hard did he try? Did he even have a chance? Who knows?
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Old 06-29-2020, 06:31 PM   #34
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Signing Neal probably wasn’t our worst move. It didn’t handcuff the franchise or anything. Sure he was a tire fire, but at the end of the day he just didn’t pan out here.

Our worst move was probably the Iginla or Bouwmeester trades. Blowing the picks is understandable but none of the prospects we got were even close to being good enough, and probably hurt the rebuild.
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Old 06-29-2020, 06:51 PM   #35
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Signing Neal probably wasn’t our worst move. It didn’t handcuff the franchise or anything. Sure he was a tire fire, but at the end of the day he just didn’t pan out here.

Our worst move was probably the Iginla or Bouwmeester trades. Blowing the picks is understandable but none of the prospects we got were even close to being good enough, and probably hurt the rebuild.
True. We had no ammunition to start a proper rebuild with. No multiple blue chip futures to kick it off right.

We lucked out with Gaudreau, who was a late rounder and never an intentional pickup for rebuild purposes.

Monahan and Bennett were basically it. They added a bunch of B pieces like Poirier and Shinkaruk and figured they had a 1C in the holster in Jankowski but all those guys were lucky to be middle of the road or complimentary players at best.

Trading Jbo and Iggy needed to net us something upper echelon. Netting late firsts in an unspectacular draft just didn't cut it.

What Ottawa is doing will set them up right with time. Its what I wish we had done.

Instead figuring we were ahead of schedule with the right core pieces we dealt multiple futures for vets, one who will leave this summer for nothing.

Just felt like treliving was meandering somewhere between rebuilding and making 'a piece or two away' moves, while never really committing one way or the other and as a result we've stayed perfectly mediocre, floating between good and not.

Thank God for vancouver that we were able to pick up Tkachuk, who is the kind of player that can be built around.

We have to do it right this time though. Hanging on to Johnny until he expires out of faint hope to compete in the next two years would be absolutely killer.

Hope treliving has the balls to do what must be done to REALLY have a shot in 3-5 years, not just a fool's hope.

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Old 06-29-2020, 06:58 PM   #36
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Signing Neal probably wasn’t our worst move. It didn’t handcuff the franchise or anything. Sure he was a tire fire, but at the end of the day he just didn’t pan out here.

Our worst move was probably the Iginla or Bouwmeester trades. Blowing the picks is understandable but none of the prospects we got were even close to being good enough, and probably hurt the rebuild.
Wasn't it rumored that Detroit was willing to give Nyquist and Tatar for Bouwmeester? That would have been a great move for Calgary if we had done that instead of just wanting a late 1st round pick+. Someone correct me if wrong.
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Old 06-29-2020, 06:59 PM   #37
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I don't know, I have a really hard time blaming anyone for the Iggy return.

Teams were paying to rent a 34 year old for two months who had a full NMC and had apparently given a list of 4 teams IIRC? Boston, Pittsburgh, LA and Chicago, and then even at the end he apparently changed his mind after Feaster had a deal done with Boston and forced the trade to Pittsburgh instead. Hard to get a good return in those conditions.

In hindsight they probably should have traded him a couple years sooner, but I bet that was being blocked by both ownership and Iginla himself.

The Boumweester trade though, yeah that was a pretty bad ball dropping.
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Old 06-29-2020, 07:24 PM   #38
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Our worst move was probably the Iginla or Bouwmeester trades. Blowing the picks is understandable but none of the prospects we got were even close to being good enough, and probably hurt the rebuild.
Revisionist history going on here.

Iginla had complete control over where he went and he approved a trade to one team only. Getting a 1st and 2 mediocre prospects was about as good as it was going to get. The package from Boston that everyone complained about missing out on was no better so I don't know what people were expecting. He should have been traded a year earlier but I'm confident that was an ownership decision.

Bouwmeester also had a NTC, was playing like crap and was getting paid 6.68M/yr which was about 10% of the cap at the time. Getting a 1st and 2 prospects was again about the best we could hope for. If we had retained half his contract (guaranteed ownership wasn't allowing that) and had the freedom to negotiate with all teams we would have surely gotten more but nothing earth shattering, he wasn't playing like an elite defenseman for a long time at that point.

Feaster wasn't a very good GM to push a team over the top, he clearly came in with a mandate to win now with Iggy and Kipper and he failed at that with the limited picks and prospects that he had. He made attempts to land a #1 centre that could have been disastrous, luckily they weren't. Once the decision was made to rebuild he did a great job however. He inherited a team with a declining overpaid core & crappy prospects. He left the team with no long term baggage, no bad contracts, good veterans on good contracts, lots of cap space, improved drafting, a younger core and much improved prospects. Feaster wasn't a great GM by any means but he left the team better than he found it.
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Old 06-29-2020, 07:28 PM   #39
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Wasn't it rumored that Detroit was willing to give Nyquist and Tatar for Bouwmeester? That would have been a great move for Calgary if we had done that instead of just wanting a late 1st round pick+. Someone correct me if wrong.
It was never confirmed what the real offer was or wasn't but the rumour was Nyquist or Tatar, not both.
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Old 06-29-2020, 09:28 PM   #40
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Revisionist history going on here.

Iginla had complete control over where he went and he approved a trade to one team only. Getting a 1st and 2 mediocre prospects was about as good as it was going to get. The package from Boston that everyone complained about missing out on was no better so I don't know what people were expecting. He should have been traded a year earlier but I'm confident that was an ownership decision.

Bouwmeester also had a NTC, was playing like crap and was getting paid 6.68M/yr which was about 10% of the cap at the time. Getting a 1st and 2 prospects was again about the best we could hope for. If we had retained half his contract (guaranteed ownership wasn't allowing that) and had the freedom to negotiate with all teams we would have surely gotten more but nothing earth shattering, he wasn't playing like an elite defenseman for a long time at that point.

Feaster wasn't a very good GM to push a team over the top, he clearly came in with a mandate to win now with Iggy and Kipper and he failed at that with the limited picks and prospects that he had. He made attempts to land a #1 centre that could have been disastrous, luckily they weren't. Once the decision was made to rebuild he did a great job however. He inherited a team with a declining overpaid core & crappy prospects. He left the team with no long term baggage, no bad contracts, good veterans on good contracts, lots of cap space, improved drafting, a younger core and much improved prospects. Feaster wasn't a great GM by any means but he left the team better than he found it.
I’m aware of all of that. It doesn’t change my mind that those deals were brutal. Also I never even mentioned Feaster. I agree that he was doing a good job to start the rebuild and to be honest I don’t think he deserved to be fired.
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