Sean Monahan vs Jarome Iginla - Heading into their 24-year old seasons

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by icecube

and Iginla would still be twice the player.

Not saying he's not. Is it not impressive and noteworthy?

[JackIsBack]

Originally Posted by HighLifeMan

McDavid could/will very likely win his third Art Ross trophy in what will be just his fourth NHL season which would put him ahead of both Crosby and Ovechkin career wise.. He is very much trending to be generational.

I don't know - he's 13 points behind at this point with 13 games to go, he basically has to outscore Kucherov by about 1 point a game to capture the Art Ross, and Kucherov has been leading him all year.


I like that you said "trending" - that makes sense to me, because if he falls back or loses some of his speed, that could change things - however unlikely you may think that is.

[Hockey_Ninja]

I honestly find Johnny's production in his first 5 season's compared to Iggy's first 5 season's more impressive than Monny's compared to Iggy.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Hockey_Ninja

I honestly find Johnny's production in his first 5 season's compared to Iggy's first 5 season's more impressive than Monny's compared to Iggy.

Well, yeah. But again, that is really beside the point of this discussion:

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

...My point is not so much Monahan > Iginla, so much as it is Monahan is outproducing Iginla at the same points in their respective careers. Obviously they do things differently. Different eras, cheap owners, no cap, the list goes on.

And yet. Can we reasonably ask any more of Sean Monahan than outproducing Jarome Iginla after five years while playing #1C for four of them?

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

...This isn't about Monahan vs Iginla and more about using Iginla as a measuring stick to illustrate that Sean Monahan is a really good hockey player.

[Beninho]

Monahan is such an underrated passer, he makes many of his subtle plays look very easy and they are not. Yes he plays with Johnny and that will boost his stats but his offensive IQ is elite. He does not get enough credit for many parts of his game, you don’t put up that many points by just playing with an elite player. Iggy would’ve benefited hugely from a player like Monahan.


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[GreenLantern2814]

May as well close this baby out.

Jarome Iginla had 363 points by the end of his 24 year old campaign. This includes the Rocket Richard and Lester Pearson trophies.

At the conclusion of his 24 year old season, Sean Monahan also has 363 points because of course he does.

I knew Monahan probably wouldn't get ahead of Iggy once he had his post all Star slump, but holy Christ. Sean Monahan has the same number of points as Iginla AFTER Iggy's breakout MVP season where he scored 50 and won two major awards.

It's probably a better idea to work with Monahan on his shortcomings - get a little leaner, a little meaner, a little more explosive - than to just trade him. He's as productive a player as Jarome Iginla, and while there's more to the game than points, Sean Monahan is as productive as Jarome Iginla through their first six seasons in the NHL.

That ain't nothin. Congratulations young man, I hope you're enjoying your summer.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

. He's as productive a player as Jarome Iginla, and while there's more to the game than points, Sean Monahan is as productive as Jarome Iginla through their first six seasons in the NHL.

The qualifier " and while there's more to the game than points", means Monny is no where near as productive as Jarome Iginla was through their first 6 seasons.

Better just stick with "that he has as many points". That's factual and accurate.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

The qualifier " and while there's more to the game than points", means Monny is no where near as productive as Jarome Iginla was through their first 6 seasons.

Better just stick with "that he has as many points". That's factual and accurate.

Well if we're playing that way, what matters more than anything is wins. Monahan has won far more games than Iggy had at the same point. Or was it Iggy's Selke caliber defensive play that contributed more to team success in the late 90s?

Sean Monahan and Jarome Iginla have produced the same amount of offense in the same amount of time. That's a fact, and it wasn't necessarily where I thought we'd be prior to last year knowing Iggy had a 96 point boost coming after hovering between 50-70 pts for several years.

Yet here we are.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

The qualifier " and while there's more to the game than points", means Monny is no where near as productive as Jarome Iginla was through their first 6 seasons.

Better just stick with "that he has as many points". That's factual and accurate.

I think that's revisionist. There was a knock on Iggy through his first 4 ish seasons that he wasn't focused on the defensive end. He definitely brough physicality that Monahan can't match, but he wasn't a bergeron (or even a second rate defensive forward like paul byron.)

[theTrumanShow]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

What a difference four surgeries makes. No longer confined to the body of a Vietnam veteran, Sean Monahan has tied Daymond Langkow for the fastest to four goals to start a season in franchise history.

Langkow is not front and centre on my mind this evening - his former running mate and the best player in franchise history is.

I will draw your attention to two sets of numbers.

393 GP 138G 143A 281P

388 GP 122G 145A 267P

The first player is Sean Monahan through the end of his age-23 season. The second is Jarome Iginla. I know, I was surprised too.

Sean Monahan has outproduced Jarome Iginla to the exact same point in their careers, and he as done it while playing centre from the moment he stepped onto an NHL rink.

Monahan had a 30 goal season at age 20 - a full three years before Iggy did it.

Sean has been used exclusively as the team's #1C since near the beginning of his sophomore campaign at 20 years old. Is he Bergeron defensively? No. But nobody is, and a massive decline is his defensive proficiency would be pretty unprecedented.

One might say 'he plays with Johnny'. Virtually every great player in the league plays with at least one other great player. You show me a star who turns scrubs into 60 point producers, and I'll show you Sid.

It's important to remember as well, Iginla didn't become Iginla until he turned 24. Then he exploded for 52 goals and 96 points. Guess how old Monahan is turning?

Everyone knows about Monahan breaking Iginla's OT winner record; I think people sleep on that because 3v3 is so conducive to stars ending games in dramatic fashion. But I don't think enough people realize that the man wearing 23 has had a better start to his career than Jarome Iginla. And he's done it while playing a harder position.

If you want to throw in playoff success, Monahan blows Iginla out of the water by this point - two playoff appearances, 11 points in 15 games, one playoff round victory. All with Hiller/Ramo/Elliot, Hartley and Gulutzan. Tell me Iginla had that much less to work with, I dare you. (I know, I know - he did. He really did. We all saw it. Still. Monahan.)

Iginla broke out at 24 and went on to score 70 or more points in six of the next ten seasons, never scoring fewer than 60. Monahan certainly has a long way to go to match that production. Yet I cannot get over the fact that to this point in their respective careers, Monahan has been better.

Does Monahan have it in him to reach that next level of superstardom? He certainly makes it look easy, but if it was easy, everyone would do it.

The league has totally changed with much more scoring. Jarome never had a winger like Johnny. Monny is half the player Iggy was at best.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by theTrumanShow

The league has totally changed with much more scoring. Jarome never had a winger like Johnny. Monny is half the player Iggy was at best.

update your signature; the canucks are now going to pay Luongo to play for no one at all.

Yes, scoring has increased. Yes, Iginla never got a player like Johnny. I don't think anyone is claiming that Sean > Iggy.

However, Monahan is not a 3rd line winger or any of the other drivel being spewed around here. This proves that he has equaled the offensive production of the greatest flame in living memory, perhaps all time depending on your thoughts about magic man or Theo. That should tell the lot of us that he is worth taking our time to develop further at the very least, and that he is a #1 C in spite of what some will parrot.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by theTrumanShow

The league has totally changed with much more scoring. Jarome never had a winger like Johnny. Monny is half the player Iggy was at best.

The game is stylistically very different, but the actual numbers are pretty similar. Here are the league-wide goals per game stats during each player's first six years.

Iggy:

96-97: 2.92 Goals per game
97-98: 2.64
98-99: 2.63
99-00: 2.75
00-01: 2.76
01-02: 2.62

Monahan:

13-14: 2.74
14-15: 2.73
15-16: 2.71
16-17: 2.77
17-18: 2.97
18-19: 3.01

That's not vastly different.

Iggy never had a player like Johnny, but he also didn't have to play centre. You can argue about how good a centre Monahan is, but he's been used as this team's #1C since virtually Day 1 of his 2nd season. And he's still as productive as he is.

[Robbob]

6 seasons 20+ goals. Last 2 30+. With his consistency, 400 career goals in 6 years is certainly feasible (avg 38 goals per season). I have no problem with Monahan.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

The game is stylistically very different, but the actual numbers are pretty similar. Here are the league-wide goals per game stats during each player's first six years.

Iggy:

96-97: 2.92 Goals per game
97-98: 2.64
98-99: 2.63
99-00: 2.75
00-01: 2.76
01-02: 2.62

Monahan:

13-14: 2.74
14-15: 2.73
15-16: 2.71
16-17: 2.77
17-18: 2.97
18-19: 3.01

That's not vastly different.

Iggy never had a player like Johnny, but he also didn't have to play centre. You can argue about how good a centre Monahan is, but he's been used as this team's #1C since virtually Day 1 of his 2nd season. And he's still as productive as he is.

If we want to be super specific, the league average through each of their first 6 seasons was 2.72 gpg (iggy) vs 2.82 gpg (Money). So league offense is up roughly 3.5%. if you apply that to the 363 points they are tied at, it works out to ~13 points over 6 seasons (12.705)

[FanIn80]

Sean Monahan is 35 goals away from 8th place all-time in goals scored as a Calgary Flame.

Assuming he gets there this season, he will be 25 years old and will have scored the 8th-most goals all-time for a franchise that is 40 years old... in just his 7th season in the League.

He's 43 goals away from moving ahead of Hockey Hall of Famer Lanny McDonald for 6th place all-time. This guy is still on his first 1-way NHL contract for crying out loud. Considering he's just entering what should be his prime, he could very realistically average 35-40 goals a year for the last 4 years of his current contract... meaning he could finish his first non-ELC NHL contract as the 3rd-highest goal scorer all time for a 40-year old franchise.

Just sayin.

[Huntingwhale]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

May as well close this baby out.

Jarome Iginla had 363 points by the end of his 24 year old campaign. This includes the Rocket Richard and Lester Pearson trophies.

At the conclusion of his 24 year old season, Sean Monahan also has 363 points because of course he does.

I knew Monahan probably wouldn't get ahead of Iggy once he had his post all Star slump, but holy Christ. Sean Monahan has the same number of points as Iginla AFTER Iggy's breakout MVP season where he scored 50 and won two major awards.

It's probably a better idea to work with Monahan on his shortcomings - get a little leaner, a little meaner, a little more explosive - than to just trade him. He's as productive a player as Jarome Iginla, and while there's more to the game than points, Sean Monahan is as productive as Jarome Iginla through their first six seasons in the NHL.

That ain't nothin. Congratulations young man, I hope you're enjoying your summer.

As someone who's given him a lot of grief after the playoffs, those are some pretty amazing stats

[activeStick]

I had no idea Iggy won these trophies by the time he was 24. That's phenomenal!

[calgaryfox]

Theres no disputing their points productivity, they are both equally impressive.

However, the intangibles of Iginla far outweighs Monahan. Iggy would have been equally productive in any hockey generation due to his skill, physicality and battle. Monahan is better suited to todays game where there is no hooking holding or slashing and I have no doubt that his points production would have been far lower in Iginlas era, especially when you consider the supporting cast around Iggy at that time. Monahans points in the modern game are impressive but thats where the similarities end.

[the2bears]

^ There's no slashing?

[Winsor_Pilates]

This comparison does nothing of value.
I'm as critical of Monahan's playoff performance as anyone, but expecting him to be anything like Iginla isn't fair either.

Monahan just needs to figure out how to be a better Monahan and show up at all times of the season.