Inclusivity and the NHL: We Have a Problem

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by BoLevi

I don't think it's a big deal. But if Reimer does then I don't think he should be compelled to. (Or bullied for not wearing it, which is exactly what this thread is doing).

Totalitarian thinking requires compliance.

He is not bullied to wear it, he never wore it. People are just saying he is a ####ing moron, which he is. Even pathetic morons like Reimer have rights and he exercised them and now many people know that he both exercised his rights and is a moron.

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by BoLevi

I don't think it's a big deal. But if Reimer does then I don't think he should be compelled to. (Or bullied for not wearing it, which is exactly what this thread is doing).

Totalitarian thinking requires compliance.

Well, maybe he should quit then. If you work for the police, an airline, Starbucks, McDonalds, the military, the San Jose Sharks...they will tell you what the uniform is. Wear it or quit and do something else.

[Matata]

it is shocking to me how people dont instantly set aside their beliefs and heritage in order to participate in cynical ,corporate, performative inclusivity and maybe sell some jerseys. Out with the old cult, in with the new!

Maybe players are a little cynical about how the NFLs pink outfits ended up being a giant scam and players are hesitant about letting themselves be paraded around in rainbow outfits that defy their base identity just to line some amoral billionaires pockets.

[Aarongavey]

https://auctions.nhl.com/iSynApp/auc...1=recentlysold

You can bid on a James Reimer game worn military appreciation jersey. He being a Mennonite he is forbidden by his religion to support war or the military and has been for at least 450 years.

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

https://auctions.nhl.com/iSynApp/auc...1=recentlysold

You can bid on a James Reimer game worn military appreciation jersey. He being a Mennonite he is forbidden by his religion to support war or the military and has been for at least 450 years.

The auction ended years ago with zero bids.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by butterfly

The auction ended years ago with zero bids.

I am sure James will violate his religious beliefs and wear another military appreciation jersey in the future if folks want to bid on that one. But the ability to bid on it was not really my point.

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

I am sure James will violate his religious beliefs and wear another military appreciation jersey in the future if folks want to bid on that one. But the ability to bid on it was not really my point.

Oh, I know. But the fact that it ended with zero interest is fun.

[devo22]

Originally Posted by Matata

it is shocking to me how people dont instantly set aside their beliefs and heritage in order to participate in cynical ,corporate, performative inclusivity and maybe sell some jerseys. Out with the old cult, in with the new!

Maybe players are a little cynical about how the NFLs pink outfits ended up being a giant scam and players are hesitant about letting themselves be paraded around in rainbow outfits that defy their base identity just to line some amoral billionaires pockets.

oh please. This has absolutely nothing to do with James Reimer being cynical about a "scam", as he obviously had no problem being "paraded" around in a military appreciation jersey. Let's call a spade a spade here, it's a thinly-veiled effort to use religion as an excuse for homophobic thinking.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Nice of CPs bigots and homophobes to out themselves. Cannon7 we already knew due to his disgusting comments in previous threads. Can add FiveSeven, Phaneuf_Phan and BoLevi to the list.

[PepsiFree]

People think taking a stand against police brutality or criticizing religion are relevant here, when they’re not.

Being gay is not a belief. Or a lifestyle. Or a movement. Or a social issue.

It’s just how someone is born. There is no changing it. You can give up religion. You can decide whether you care about police brutality and whether you want to stand for an anthem. But you can’t change how you’re born. So while the jerseys may be stupid to most people or be nothing more than easy marketing gimmicks, I can absolutely guarantee that there are young LGBTQ fans of the NHL and seeing something like this matters.

A lot of people are missing the point and I’m sure for some people it’s on purpose. I would just say that if you’re expressing the same views as a poster like Matata who has had a timeout from the board because of their hateful, transphobic remarks, then maybe it would be worth seeking out what the root of your position is really based in.

[Geeoff]

Originally Posted by midniteowl

Holy effing hell! Would he please point to where in bible said being gay is sin? I believe Pope Francis has said it that there is no where in the bible ever states that gay is sin. Jesus has preach inclusion and forgiveness and love, and he, saying that he is a practice Christian, and claims that he is following Jesus footsteps?

I'm sure there are many christian NHLers that have donned the pride jerseys. Seems like Reimer is part of a real hardcore church with extreme views.

[Geeoff]

Originally Posted by Hockey_Ninja

It just got worse:

https://twitter.com/user/status/1637284859398983685

I'm not Jewish but I once went to a bar mitzvah and wore a yarmulke. Would Reimer freak out?

[cannon7]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Nice of CPs bigots and homophobes to out themselves. Cannon7 we already knew due to his disgusting comments in previous threads. Can add FiveSeven, Phaneuf_Phan and BoLevi to the list.

Maybe you can round us up in camps? That would be extra inclusive.

If I'm a bigot and homophobe, that would come as something of a surprise to my trans son. But it is so easy to lump people into these categories, so who cares.

Garbage comments like the above are what is really ruining CP, IMO. All this political nonsense making its way into the hockey board.

Can we get some more posts about how Reimer is a bigoted homophobe? We don't have enough yet.

[cannon7]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

People think taking a stand against police brutality or criticizing religion are relevant here, when they’re not.

Being gay is not a belief. Or a lifestyle. Or a movement. Or a social issue.

It’s just how someone is born. There is no changing it. You can give up religion. You can decide whether you care about police brutality and whether you want to stand for an anthem. But you can’t change how you’re born. So while the jerseys may be stupid to most people or be nothing more than easy marketing gimmicks, I can absolutely guarantee that there are young LGBTQ fans of the NHL and seeing something like this matters.

A lot of people are missing the point and I’m sure for some people it’s on purpose. I would just say that if you’re expressing the same views as a poster like Matata who has had a timeout from the board because of their hateful, transphobic remarks, then maybe it would be worth seeking out what the root of your position is really based in.

While I generally agree with you, a person's faith can be core to their being. Some CPers might think that is stupid and worthy of ridicule and disrespect, or worse, to scrutinize their faith as a facade for bigotry. But I don't see anything in Reimer's actions or words to justify this vitriol. If anything, he has made it clear that he is not trying to offend anyone. It is the media blowing this out of proportion, IMO.

And to be clear, I am not a person of faith. I just recognize its importance to others.

If Reimer was a Muslim does this make the news? Or do we reserve the accusations of bigotry and homophobia for Christians?

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by cannon7

Maybe you can round us up in camps? That would be extra inclusive.

If I'm a bigot and homophobe, that would come as something of a surprise to my trans son. But it is so easy to lump people into these categories, so who cares.

Garbage comments like the above are what is really ruining CP, IMO. All this political nonsense making its way into the hockey board.

Can we get some more posts about how Reimer is a bigoted homophobe? We don't have enough yet.

Anyone who actually had a trans son would understand that, as unfortunate as it is, being a parent does not preclude someone from being transphobic or homophobic. I know I would be embarrassed and hurt if I knew my father was spending time online dismissing Pride of being nothing more than politically fashionable and doing playful little head-pats to other homophobes.

And I would think that anyone who actually thought accusations of homophobia were “ruining CP” wouldn’t contribute by making accusations of religiophobia.

You’re either a liar, or an embarrassing example of how not to live the values you pretend to have. Pretty gross. And I honestly think it’s worth asking yourself what you think you’re accomplishing and who you’re actually fighting for while keeping your son in mind.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by butterfly

Well, maybe he should quit then. If you work for the police, an airline, Starbucks, McDonalds, the military, the San Jose Sharks...they will tell you what the uniform is. Wear it or quit and do something else.

Except uniforms changing for religious expression/rights has been a major issue for years and continued to be.

The police allowing Sikhs to wear turbans and women to wear Hijabs as part of the uniform being two recent examples. I assume most people on this board were in support of these examples (Probably a relatively inverse relationship to this thread if I was guessing)

I am neither part of the LBGT nor religious community so I am not positioned to comment either way, however from the outside I think Riemer (and previous players) and the NHL have handled this perfectly.

99% of the leagues players show they are in full support while the players who religious beliefs preclude them from participating are allowed the right to opt out as well.

The fact players are allowed to opt out (although I would imagine the peer pressure to not opt out heavily influences some) makes the gesture much more meaningful and less a corporate inclusivity grandstanding act. It isn't a" The company is forcing me to pretend to be inclusive" initiative - The players actually have a choice and they are choosing to show their support.

And if it's just an excuse for Riemer and he is actually a bigot? Why do you want that bigot forced to wear the pride jersey anyways and add to their hatred of that group? Does the LGBT community want people not believing in their cause to be forced to support (I assume not?) under threat of loosing their job.

We are already seeing religion start to change their views on LBGT members.
And we have seen people turn away from religion for the existing view on these groups.

However until there is a full thought change within the church there are a lot of people who deeply believe in their religions, and that fact needs to also be understood that this is what they have been taught since birth and that religion isn't just a 'choice' for them, it is their life.

[BoLevi]

Originally Posted by Geeoff

I'm not Jewish but I once went to a bar mitzvah and wore a yarmulke. Would Reimer freak out?

Kadri took the Stanley Cup to a mosque that is openly and actively anti- gay. That's a far more serious issue than Reimer and his jersey.

But the current version of the Inclusivity Rules has deemed that deserves a merit badge. May you live in interesting times, I guess.

[81MC]

At the risk of stepping on a landline…

Who cares? People are untitled to their opinions and beliefs, however poor they are. Have a philosophical opposition to something, fine. Is his, or anyone else’s position, going to change by a frenzy around a uniform? No.

Opt out, shut up and everyone else carry on. We all have people in our own lives with whack-ass beliefs that we can meaningfully engage with if we want to unveil ignorance.

[BoLevi]

Originally Posted by 81MC

At the risk of stepping on a landline…

Who cares? People are untitled to their opinions and beliefs, however poor they are. Have a philosophical opposition to something, fine. Is his, or anyone else’s position, going to change by a frenzy around a uniform? No.

Opt out, shut up and everyone else carry on. We all have people in our own lives with whack-ass beliefs that we can meaningfully engage with if we want to unveil ignorance.

This is there right attitude, but the Inclusivity folks here need more than that. You must conform and comply otherwise you are a heretic.

[D as in David]

As a youth growing up in a Baptist household, it was the hypocrisy of the church and church goers that was the #1 reason why I'm no longer religious. The selective use of portions of the bible is just the Christians' way to rationalize their bigotry which is in complete opposition of their own saviour's teachings.