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Old 12-01-2022, 11:19 PM   #61
Jiri Hrdina
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Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee View Post
May as well do nothing.
Didnít say that.
I would call him up
But I doubt trading him for draft capital is an option
Sheesh this place tonight
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Old 12-01-2022, 11:21 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by Hack&Lube View Post
How about they replace the entire line of Milan Lucic, Trevor Lewis, and Brett Ritchie with the first line of the Wranglers?
Hey thats on pace for 20 goals Ritchie your talking about there
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Old 12-01-2022, 11:24 PM   #63
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The Flames are the fourth-heaviest and fifth-tallest team in the NHL, for the record
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Old 12-01-2022, 11:41 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by traptor View Post
People saying Phillips won't be our savior.
That's fair he probably won't (although you never know until you try).

But at least it would make things interesting. The team is ####ing boring right now.

It's fine if your boring and winning.
But they're boring and losing. Might as well give the fans something to be excited about.
this is an underrated take on the situation and justification for the call up

I agree
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Old 12-01-2022, 11:42 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by TheScorpion View Post
The Flames are the fourth-heaviest and fifth-tallest team in the NHL, for the record
1/3 of that is lucic , another 1/3 of that is zadorov's glutes
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Old 12-01-2022, 11:46 PM   #66
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Lucic has been terrible and needs to see the press box.

Without Lucic at 5v5: 38 GF - 28 GA (+10)
With Lucic at 5v5: 7 GF - 11 GA (-4)

11 forwards have played more than 150 minutes at 5v5 for the Flames. Lucic ranks:

Goals For %: 38.1% (11th)
Expected GF%: 46.0% (11th)
High Danger Corsi: 44.8% (11th)
Shots For: 51.2% (11th)

Goals: 0 (11th)
Points: 4 (11th)
Shots: 18 (11th)
Individual Expected Goals: 1.63 (11th)
PIMS: 16 (1st - 8 minors, no majors)

He’s been our worst forward by literally every single metric.

He’s a liability defensively this year, is getting caved in when he’s on the ice, provides no offense, take too many penalties, hasn’t had a fight all year,

Time for him to eat some popcorn. If he wasnt a Sutter favourite he’d have been benched 10 games ago like Rooney.

Last edited by SuperMatt18; 12-01-2022 at 11:57 PM.
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Old 12-01-2022, 11:48 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperMatt18 View Post
Lucic has been terrible and needs to see the press box.

Without Lucic at 5v5: 38 GF - 28 GA (+10)
With Lucic at 5v5: 7 GF - 11 GA (-4)

11 forwards have played more than 150 minutes at 5v5 for the Flames. Lucic ranks:

Goals For %: 38.1% (11th)
Expected GF%: 46.0% (11th)
High Danger Corsi: 44.8% (11th)
Shots For: 51.2% (11th)

Goals: 0 (11th)
Points: 4 (11th)
Shots: 18 (11th)
Individual Expected Goals: 1.63 (11th)
PIMS: 16 (1st - 8 minors, no majors)

Heís been out worst forward by literally every single metric.

Heís a liability defensively this year, is getting caved in when heís on the ice, provides no offense, take too many penalties, hasnít had a fight all year,

Time for him to eat some popcorn. If he wasnt a Sutter favourite heíd have been benched 10 games ago like Rooney.
retire
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Old 12-01-2022, 11:54 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by TheScorpion View Post
I know you're just predicting what they'll do, Lanny, but man ... Duehr just isn't anything. He's an AHL fourth-liner.
plus it just isn't an nhl quality name
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Old 12-02-2022, 12:08 AM   #69
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Does Lucic's NMC include moving him to press box? Just wondering.
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Old 12-02-2022, 12:31 AM   #70
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I agree that there likely should be another thread. I’m not going to be the one who makes it but it’s frustrating as hell seeing this style of play and how the players are responding to it. If there was just one issue I could see them battling through it better. But it’s a mix of goaltending failures, lack of finish, lineup choices, player effort, playing scared and so on. You can’t really fire the players so not sure what will happen next.
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Old 12-02-2022, 02:54 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by traptor View Post
People saying Phillips won't be our savior.
That's fair he probably won't (although you never know until you try).

But at least it would make things interesting. The team is ####ing boring right now.

It's fine if your boring and winning.
But they're boring and losing. Might as well give the fans something to be excited about.
So boring I gave away tickets to the Caps to a stranger tonight because he had a flames plate and a hat.

I'm hoping for karma and the flames win 8-1
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Old 12-02-2022, 06:32 AM   #72
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I remember when teams used to call up players from the minors when a trade wasn't an option, just to give the team a spark. Honestly, a 3rd line of young guys would inject a lot of life and energy into this team. So yeah, I say call up more than just Phillips.
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Old 12-02-2022, 06:43 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperMatt18 View Post
Lucic has been terrible and needs to see the press box.

Without Lucic at 5v5: 38 GF - 28 GA (+10)
With Lucic at 5v5: 7 GF - 11 GA (-4)

11 forwards have played more than 150 minutes at 5v5 for the Flames. Lucic ranks:

Goals For %: 38.1% (11th)
Expected GF%: 46.0% (11th)
High Danger Corsi: 44.8% (11th)
Shots For: 51.2% (11th)

Goals: 0 (11th)
Points: 4 (11th)
Shots: 18 (11th)
Individual Expected Goals: 1.63 (11th)
PIMS: 16 (1st - 8 minors, no majors)

He’s been our worst forward by literally every single metric.

He’s a liability defensively this year, is getting caved in when he’s on the ice, provides no offense, take too many penalties, hasn’t had a fight all year,

Time for him to eat some popcorn. If he wasnt a Sutter favourite he’d have been benched 10 games ago like Rooney.
We discussed in the offseason that Lucic should be a player that doesn't dress every night and I expect his play to get worse as the season progresses just like last season. Problem is that I don't think Darryl scratches him this season. There seems to be some sort of dynamic where Darryl overvalues his leadership and size and doesn't want to embarrass him by putting him in the pressbox.
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Old 12-02-2022, 06:55 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by Erick Estrada View Post
We discussed in the offseason that Lucic should be a player that doesn't dress every night and I expect his play to get worse as the season progresses just like last season. Problem is that I don't think Darryl scratches him this season. There seems to be some sort of dynamic where Darryl overvalues his leadership and size and doesn't want to embarrass him by putting him in the pressbox.
Lucic's inability to play at the NHL level is very obvious. He is actually a detriment to the team every time he is out there. We also talked about the lineup and what was missing during the lead up to the season. I said they were a proven top six forward from being a contender. Now I think they are 2-3 forwards away from being a contender and at least 2 forwards away from being a playoff team. Two things are getting in the way of improving this team. Lucic's cap hit really hurts in trying to fill the needs on the team. The other thing is Sutter and his approach to playing prospects. Both need to change. Lucic needs to retire and Sutter should consider the same. They are both holding this team back.
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Old 12-02-2022, 07:15 AM   #75
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Honestly, the Flames are a rough team to root for when they continue spinning their wheels with the same strategy for two+ decades. Even going back to MSL, the contrast in approach between this organizarion and Tampa Bay is remarkable. Tanpa was okay with ficing MSL an opportunity up the lineup because they had a fearless mentality. That fearless mentality helped them win the 2004 Stanley Cup, but even setting aside whether that puck was in or not, it was the same mentality that allowed them to pump the brakes when their core wasn't quite cutting the mustard, and bottomed out only four years after their Cup win to the tune of Hedman and Stamkos. The Flames on the other hand were trying to make the playoffs with a washed up Olli Jokinen as their number one centre and Jay Bouwmeester (aka the OG Hanifin) as their number one defenseman.

Then fast forward to the mid 2010s, and Brad Treliving, then an assistant GM with Arizona, "liked" Tyler Johnson, invited him to camp... but wasn't willing to take a leap of faith on the player because of preconceived notions about what works.

Tyler Johnson proceeds to center a Palat and Kucherov on the Triplets Line, which carried the Lightning to the Cup Final in 2015. Kucherov got hurt and they lost the series, but that's life.

Brad Treliving, a Flames GM, the very next year, again shows his disdain for useful smaller players, playing Paul Byron on waivers for unfathomable reasons (after a strong, albeit snakebitten year the year prior!) while granting Brandon Bollig an automatic immunity from meritocracy.

Over the next few years, names like Jonathan Marchessault and Yanni Gourde come up through Tampa's minor league system, and eventually become valued NHLers in their own right. These are but a few names that never would have cracked the Flames lineup.

Brad Treliving, trying his best to show that he can indeed hang with the cool crowd, signs Austin Czarnik in an attempt to find his own Marchessault type.

And the Flames proceed to play this offensive minded player on the Flames' shutdown line with Backlund, or with an inept centre in Jankowski. Not once did the Flames coach try Czarnik on the line of clear, obvious fit (Czarnik - Bennett - Neal or Lucic - Bennett - Czarnik the year afterwards). Czarnik isn't even necessarily bad - posting 21 pts in 62 games along with strong underlying metrics - but for Brad Treliving, an injury to Czarnik was sufficient grounds to demote the kid back to the AHL. After all, he wasn't fitting in the checking role with Backlund, so he was an AHLer.

The Flames' rigid, win-now-even-if-we-cannot approach, has been twenty years in the making. I'm hitting a point of apathy with this Phillips situation. Even if they call him up you just know he'll be a square peg in a round hole somewhere, because they lack the fearlessness to try the things that actually would make sense.
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Last edited by GranteedEV; 12-02-2022 at 07:32 AM.
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Old 12-02-2022, 07:18 AM   #76
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This team just feels so old and an injection of youth would be helpful.
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Old 12-02-2022, 08:33 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina View Post
Didnít say that.
I would call him up
But I doubt trading him for draft capital is an option
Sheesh this place tonight
I know you didn't say or necessarily even mean that so I didn't really mean mine as a shot at you specifically. But there definitely is a tone on this site and obviously with the organization that is gigantically reluctant to try different things when different things are (painfully obviously) required. So I just get my back up when people constantly dig hard for reasons on why not to do stuff.

Like, let's be honest, I highly doubt the organization has even bothered to shop Phillips. Highly doubt calls have been made, so we'll never know. But the current situation (IMO) is not tenable long term. If I was Phillips I'd be trying to get out of Calgary.
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Old 12-02-2022, 08:35 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperMatt18 View Post
Lucic has been terrible and needs to see the press box.

Without Lucic at 5v5: 38 GF - 28 GA (+10)
With Lucic at 5v5: 7 GF - 11 GA (-4)

11 forwards have played more than 150 minutes at 5v5 for the Flames. Lucic ranks:

Goals For %: 38.1% (11th)
Expected GF%: 46.0% (11th)
High Danger Corsi: 44.8% (11th)
Shots For: 51.2% (11th)

Goals: 0 (11th)
Points: 4 (11th)
Shots: 18 (11th)
Individual Expected Goals: 1.63 (11th)
PIMS: 16 (1st - 8 minors, no majors)

Heís been our worst forward by literally every single metric.

Heís a liability defensively this year, is getting caved in when heís on the ice, provides no offense, take too many penalties, hasnít had a fight all year,

Time for him to eat some popcorn. If he wasnt a Sutter favourite heíd have been benched 10 games ago like Rooney.
He's also eased up massively on his work ethic. Last year, he would bomb in and give a real good solid check. His forecheck was actually super valuable, but I haven't seen that type of game from him for over a month. He CAN create turnovers, but he has to hustle.

Quite frankly if he is not working hard, he should sit- straight up that black and white.
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Old 12-02-2022, 08:50 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erick Estrada View Post
We discussed in the offseason that Lucic should be a player that doesn't dress every night and I expect his play to get worse as the season progresses just like last season. Problem is that I don't think Darryl scratches him this season. There seems to be some sort of dynamic where Darryl overvalues his leadership and size and doesn't want to embarrass him by putting him in the pressbox.
Some people definitely said this.

But look at the Lucic extension thread from a few weeks ago. A whole bunch of people were also good with signing him to a new deal too after the club's nice start.

Fans are fickle, not a newsflash I guess.
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Old 12-02-2022, 10:37 AM   #80
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The Flames are playing a boring style of hockey right now. Complete 180 from what we saw last season where it seemed like we were hitting everything that moved, and swarming the other team with 2 on 1's and high quality chances (and burying alot of them). I hope this most recent 40+ shot game by the flames with one goal to show for it is the catalyst for calling up at least one of Phillips, Pelletier or Zary just to inject some life into this group.

I'm expecting Vladar to take the reins at least temporarily, and the team seems to play well in front of him. Add some young guys to the mix to see if it helps add a spark, what's the worst that could happen. Those Lucic stats were uglier than I had imagined

Also yeah what the heck is with the roller coaster the Flames find themselves on from one great year with a clear identity, to being a bubble team the next year with lack of finish and no real identity. I feel like this is a uniquely Flames thing, or is it more common than that?
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