12-03-2022, 04:54 PM
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#381
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald
No, they won't. Go back through the past 20 years and show me an instance where a D+7 player was traded, let alone for anything of value.
You have no logic. You look at his point totals in the AHL and go derp derp derp. The road to the NHL is paved with guys who could score in the AHL and never got a sniff of the show. Just look the past few years.
Andrew Poturalski (1.42 PPG), TJ Tynan (1.58 PPG), Seth Griffith (1.25 PPG), Sam Anas (1.11 PPG), Reid Boucher (1.26 PPG), Gerry Mayhew (1.24 PPG), all small undersized players who never amounted to a hill of beans.
I wouldn't do anything out of the ordinary. I would treat him like you do with a prospect that is D+7. TBH, it doesn't matter what they do. He's going to be UFA at the end of the season regardless of what they do. The thing they have to do is decide if he has an NHL future. Sutter's comments have me pretty confident they don't believe there is a future there.
He's done everything in his power to make the NHL, and it doesn't appear that is enough for the Flames, especially the coach of the NHL team. Don't blame me that the NHL is a game for big men, and that we have a coach who really likes the beef in the lineup. I can't tell you why they drafted him. I wouldn't have gone near him. The risk was too large, even for a late pick. They must have thought they could catch the Gaudreau lightning in a bottle. Not a great strategy IMO.
It only took him four years in the AHL to prove anything and a fifth to step to the fore. Is Calgary ready to make a similar investment at the NHL level for him? Again, the step to the NHL is a massive jump. It's why the AHL is filled with small players who have scored at that level and never amounted to anything at the NHL level.
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With all due respect Lanny, I don't understand why you give such absolutist doom-&-gloom takes on some topics. Maybe the situation is as hopeless as you make it seem. Then again, maybe it isn't. How about leaving some room for optimism and hope?
And what investment are you talking about? A team struggling to score brings a skilled forward to the big club for a couple of weeks to see if he can help the situation. If he can't, you just send him down and lose nothing. No harm done.
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Last edited by Mathgod; 12-03-2022 at 04:57 PM.
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12-03-2022, 05:01 PM
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#382
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#1 Goaltender
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald
No, they won't. Go back through the past 20 years and show me an instance where a D+7 player was traded, let alone for anything of value.
You have no logic. You look at his point totals in the AHL and go derp derp derp. The road to the NHL is paved with guys who could score in the AHL and never got a sniff of the show. Just look the past few years.
Andrew Poturalski (1.42 PPG), TJ Tynan (1.58 PPG), Seth Griffith (1.25 PPG), Sam Anas (1.11 PPG), Reid Boucher (1.26 PPG), Gerry Mayhew (1.24 PPG), all small undersized players who never amounted to a hill of beans.
I wouldn't do anything out of the ordinary. I would treat him like you do with a prospect that is D+7. TBH, it doesn't matter what they do. He's going to be UFA at the end of the season regardless of what they do. The thing they have to do is decide if he has an NHL future. Sutter's comments have me pretty confident they don't believe there is a future there.
He's done everything in his power to make the NHL, and it doesn't appear that is enough for the Flames, especially the coach of the NHL team. Don't blame me that the NHL is a game for big men, and that we have a coach who really likes the beef in the lineup. I can't tell you why they drafted him. I wouldn't have gone near him. The risk was too large, even for a late pick. They must have thought they could catch the Gaudreau lightning in a bottle. Not a great strategy IMO.
It only took him four years in the AHL to prove anything and a fifth to step to the fore. Is Calgary ready to make a similar investment at the NHL level for him? Again, the step to the NHL is a massive jump. It's why the AHL is filled with small players who have scored at that level and never amounted to anything at the NHL level.
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All they'd have to do is bring him up for 5 games, not play him on the 4th line for 6 minutes a night, and if he shows nothing that'll be it. Not much to lose at this point. But just leaving him down and walking him to ufa leaves too many what ifs.
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12-03-2022, 05:19 PM
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#383
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Commie Referee
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Small town, B.C.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chedder
All they'd have to do is bring him up for 5 games, not play him on the 4th line for 6 minutes a night, and if he shows nothing that'll be it. Not much to lose at this point. But just leaving him down and walking him to ufa leaves too many what ifs.
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I believe he is an RFA after this season? Unless you meant leaving him down there for past this season until he hits UFA.
Either way I can't see him wanting to re-sign after this season if he doesn't get a sniff. I wouldn't.
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12-03-2022, 05:19 PM
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#384
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Toronto
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If you like Sutter because he makes it clear to each player their specific role on the team and lauded him for this whenever players mentioned this last year, it's tough to get too upset about Lucic getting 4th line minutes (getting 2nd line minutes, I can understand). Lucic's role isn't to score, it's to bring all the other elements he does. And because that role includes physicality, intimidation and leadership, there isn't a single AHL player with the Wranglers who would be better than Looch in his current role.
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12-03-2022, 05:23 PM
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#385
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First round-bust
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: speculating about AHL players
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If Lucic doesn't help the Flames outscore the other team (he used to, he doesn't anymore), he doesn't belong in a regular spot in the NHL.
__________________
"This has been TheScorpion's shtick for years. All these hot takes, clickbait nonsense just to feed his social media algorithms." –Tuco
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12-03-2022, 05:23 PM
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#386
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: SW Ontario
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan
I believe he is an RFA after this season? Unless you meant leaving him down there for past this season until he hits UFA.
Either way I can't see him wanting to re-sign after this season if he doesn't get a sniff. I wouldn't.
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He is a UFA after this year.
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12-03-2022, 05:26 PM
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#387
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Commie Referee
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Small town, B.C.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dissentowner
He is a UFA after this year.
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Interesting, Cap Friendly has him as a RFA.
Looks like he'll be a Group 6 UFA, not sure why CF has it wrong.
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12-03-2022, 05:28 PM
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#388
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Owner
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheScorpion
If Lucic doesn't help the Flames outscore the other team (he used to, he doesn't anymore), he doesn't belong in a regular spot in the NHL.
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If Lucic makes his teammates play taller because of his size and intimidation, get more ready because of his room presence, or inspire them because of who the guy is he can very much help the Flames out score the opposition without hitting the goal sheet itself.
That's just a very limited view on things.
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12-03-2022, 05:30 PM
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#389
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bingo
If Lucic makes his teammates play taller because of his size and intimidation, get more ready because of his room presence, or inspire them because of who the guy is he can very much help the Flames out score the opposition without hitting the goal sheet itself.
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Sure. But I don't see any evidence that this is the effect he's actually having.
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12-03-2022, 05:31 PM
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#390
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First round-bust
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: speculating about AHL players
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Yeah, I mean, that's all great to talk about. But at the end of the day this feels like the Brian McGrattan situation all over again. This team has enough grinders and checkers.
__________________
"This has been TheScorpion's shtick for years. All these hot takes, clickbait nonsense just to feed his social media algorithms." –Tuco
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12-03-2022, 05:34 PM
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#391
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Owner
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathgod
Sure. But I don't see any evidence that this is the effect he's actually having.
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How pray tell are you going to find evidence to support or deny such a thing?
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12-03-2022, 05:35 PM
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#392
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bingo
How pray tell are you going to find evidence to support or deny such a thing?
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You're the one making the claim.
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12-03-2022, 05:35 PM
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#393
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Owner
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheScorpion
Yeah, I mean, that's all great to talk about. But at the end of the day this feels like the Brian McGrattan situation all over again. This team has enough grinders and checkers.
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I'm not expecting you to ever agree with me.
Nor am I ever going to see the game as clinical as you see it.
It has to matter to some degree, to what extent I have no clue. But it's a greater effect than you're thinking since you see it at zero.
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12-03-2022, 05:37 PM
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#394
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Owner
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathgod
You're the one making the claim.
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LOL no I'm not ...
What claim did I make in a statement that starts with "if"?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bingo
If Lucic makes his teammates play taller because of his size and intimidation, get more ready because of his room presence, or inspire them because of who the guy is he can very much help the Flames out score the opposition without hitting the goal sheet itself.
That's just a very limited view on things.
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12-03-2022, 05:38 PM
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#395
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damn onions
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Poor Phillips
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12-03-2022, 05:40 PM
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#396
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Participant  |
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bingo
LOL no I'm not ...
What claim did I make in a statement that starts with "if"?
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I think the point is that “if” he’s having that effect, it’s not currently outweighing his complete lack of tangible impact on the ice.
It’s easy to say “if” he’s doing all these intangible things then he has value, but when there’s no evidence he is on the ice or in the results, we can probably scrap the hypothetical entirely.
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12-03-2022, 05:41 PM
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#397
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Owner
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PepsiFree
I think the point is that “if” he’s having that effect, it’s not currently outweighing his complete lack of tangible impact on the ice.
It’s easy to say “if” he’s doing all these intangible things then he has value, but when there’s no evidence he is on the ice or in the results, we can probably scrap the hypothetical entirely.
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Well the chasm between say Ritchie and Lucic isn't so vast that a little bit of intangibles wouldn't be enough to flip the order.
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12-03-2022, 05:41 PM
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#398
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damn onions
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Not to mention can’t we say IF Phillips does this or that, with the same logic?
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12-03-2022, 05:42 PM
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#399
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Owner
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee
Not to mention can’t we say IF Phillips does this or that, with the same logic?
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Of course you can.
I've done it myself.
If he gets a look and finds his mark at the NHL level that would be great. Have said I want to see him get a chance many times.
Maybe not as impactful as your "poor Phillips" posts but they're out there.
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12-03-2022, 05:44 PM
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#400
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First round-bust
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: speculating about AHL players
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Phillips has worn an A with the farm team for years and he plays like he's 6'3" and 240 pounds ... Good enough for me.
__________________
"This has been TheScorpion's shtick for years. All these hot takes, clickbait nonsense just to feed his social media algorithms." –Tuco
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