Canadian Federal Politics Thread v5

[b1crunch]

Originally Posted by StickMan

If you think everything has to be left/right, that is just too bad, and this is one of the "extremely messed up" things with Canada right now. This whole left/right battle was amplified by Trudeau and the way he groups people and sets them against each other while he sits back and laughs at us and goes surfing on our dime. I find PP far less divisive and much more inclusive then Trudeau.

I'm just pointing out that you gave the literal definition of populism. if all of your posts on here are to show that PP is a positive force then its not working. You're doing the opposite. Populism doesn't have to be negative, but it certainly has many negative connotations in very recent history, such as Trump.

Right or wrong, those are the connections people are making. Even you, a PP supporter, described him as populist. That doesn't bode well for non-PP supporters changing their minds. But I guess he has about 3 years to change that perception.

[b1crunch]

Originally Posted by StickMan

If you think everything has to be left/right, that is just too bad, and this is one of the "extremely messed up" things with Canada right now. This whole left/right battle was amplified by Trudeau and the way he groups people and sets them against each other while he sits back and laughs at us and goes surfing on our dime. I find PP far less divisive and much more inclusive then Trudeau.

This shows your bias. They're both clearly divisive. PP just happens to be on your side of the fence in regards to what he is saying. If you can't see or acknowledge how he's divisive than I'm not sure what to say to you.

if anything, PP is a literal "equal but opposite" reaction to Trudeau. He's equally divisive, but on the opposite side of the issues.

[StickMan]

Originally Posted by b1crunch

Really? I see a bunch of similarities.

Kenney also courted the far-right for his own political gain.
Kenney also uses catchphrases such as "woke" and "radical".
Kenney also plays up the fear/hatred of "elites".
Not to mention the same conservative policies (small government, tax cuts, etc.)

Hell, PP worked as a political staffer for Kenney back in the day. And PP's campaign is headed by John Baird who has incredibly close ties to Kenney. PP and Kenney also worked together in Harper's government.

I mean, yes, they are two different people, but they're definitely similar is MANY ways and have close connections to one another. Doesn't mean PP will make the same mistakes, but it also doesn't bode well if you think Kenney was an idiot.

I don't think PP courted the far right, I assume you are talking about PP showing support for Canadians right to protest in the freedom convoy. Although the legacy media frames the freedom convoy as right wing, not everyone sees more then a
mostly peaceful protest that lasted too long because Trudeau is stubborn and unable to deal with anyone opposing him. .

Yes Kenney and PP have crossed paths being that they both worked for the same political party for a number of years, that doesn't mean they are similar people. I could go on all day about the problems with Kenney, but I don't see any of those same problems in PP. I think it is kinda of pathetic to try to draw similarities to PP and other failed politicians (Kenney, Trump) without any real evidence.

[b1crunch]

Originally Posted by StickMan

I don't think PP courted the far right, I assume you are talking about PP showing support for Canadians right to protest in the freedom convoy. Although the legacy media frames the freedom convoy as right wing, not everyone sees more then a
mostly peaceful protest that lasted too long because Trudeau is stubborn and unable to deal with anyone opposing him. .

Yes Kenney and PP have crossed paths being that they both worked for the same political party for a number of years, that doesn't mean they are similar people. I could go on all day about the problems with Kenney, but I don't see any of those same problems in PP. I think it is kinda of pathetic to try to draw similarities to PP and other failed politicians (Kenney, Trump) without any real evidence.

You choosing to not see the evidence, doesn't mean it isn't there.

Sure, one could see the convoys as people peacefully protesting. I would argue it was that at some points and to some degree. But then there's the other side where the convoy leaders asked the Gov. General to overthrow the authority of the elected government. Or bigoted people like Pat King who were leaders/organizers of the convoy. Also, not to mention the illegal shut down of a city. If you can't see the complexity of the convoys for what it really was, than I'm not sure what to say to you.

But, my main point in all of this was, your posts on here are literally pushing people away from PP. I assume you post what you do because you are passionate about his campaign, but your posts are doing the opposite of what you probably hoped.

You've basically called him a populist, which has negative connotations and is something he's been criticized for being. You're not going to change anyone's minds about him if you literally agree with what non-PP supporters are saying. And that's fine, but then what is the point of everything you post?

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by StickMan

I don't think PP courted the far right, I assume you are talking about PP showing support for Canadians right to protest in the freedom convoy. Although the legacy media frames the freedom convoy as right wing, not everyone sees more then a
mostly peaceful protest that lasted too long because Trudeau is stubborn and unable to deal with anyone opposing him. .

No. It was violent, obnoxious, populist, carried water for hateful messaging, and cost taxpaying Canadians millions of dollars. The majority of Canadians see it this way, and the polls about convoy support have shown that. The federal government let the City of Ottawa manage its own affairs, and when that failed, they called the Emergencies Act. And literally 99.9% of Canadians were unaffected by him doing so.

We also suffered international embarrassment from those jackasses holding Ottawa hostage. It did nothing to unite Canadians. In fact, it probably singled out and marginalized the Convoy crowd, with our court systems and law enforcement now having to follow up with these idiots.

PP is also rubbing shoulders with the extreme members of that convoy crowd. And Canadian see that plain as day.

And stop with this "legacy media" or "woke media" or whatever populists want to spin to make it sounds like you have some sort of "upper edge" on media reporting, because the Rebel/Post Millennial/True North are ultra right-wing rags that have as much credibility as screaming two year-olds with poop coming out of their diapers. Blue Lives Matter, right?

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by StickMan

Pierre is extreme, but I don't think it is left/right type extreme. It is things like "fire the BoC for not doing their job" or "defund the CBC because they cost over a billion and are mostly just a government propaganda machine as a result", this is the type of extreme I see. He isn't wrong, and it is extreme, Canada is extremely messed up right now. I think PP is concerned about all Canadians, young people who can't find houses, seniors affected by inflation, natives being treated unfairly, immigrants not being able to work in their professions where they are trained, everyday people struggling because of high taxes and inflation. I don't think his agenda is left/right influenced, he just wants to do the job and fix the problems. This appeals to sensible people, and hopefully the left will quit trying to label PP and just give him a chance... If he screws up then you can call him out on it, but I think this left-wing anger and paranoia is a bit premature.

I would love to know what his insightful policy is on indigenous issues. Not sure he has spoken about indigenous issues outside of saying they are lazy and require stronger work ethic.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

Maybe she has already. Maybe she said to him, "Don't you dare mention the BOC or Bitcoin in your speech". And he didn't.

I cannot imagine his wife making these calls. To assume that is insane. He has a dozen campaign advisors with more knowledge of this stuff than anyone.

Are we actually deifying his wife?

This is insane

[StickMan]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

I would love to know what his insightful policy is on indigenous issues. Not sure he has spoken about indigenous issues outside of saying they are lazy and require stronger work ethic.

You have a link to that?

[b1crunch]

Originally Posted by StickMan

You have a link to that?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/conse...eople-1.712106

"A Conservative MP who on Wednesday told an Ottawa radio station that former residential school students need a stronger work ethic, not more compensation dollars, has apologized for his comments."

He apologized for it, but the optics of the comments occurring so close to Harper's apology is extremely disappointing.

I mean, you seem to be one of his most ardent supporters. Did you honestly not know he said these things?

[Doctorfever]

Honest question. Is PP out to get the CBC because Ashley Burke said some things about his wife?

I heard about this from someone, but am struggling to find any news on it from google that isn’t biased media publications.

[StickMan]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

No. It was violent, obnoxious, populist, carried water for hateful messaging, and cost taxpaying Canadians millions of dollars. The majority of Canadians see it this way, and the polls about convoy support have shown that. The federal government let the City of Ottawa manage its own affairs, and when that failed, they called the Emergencies Act. And literally 99.9% of Canadians were unaffected by him doing so.

We also suffered international embarrassment from those jackasses holding Ottawa hostage. It did nothing to unite Canadians. In fact, it probably singled out and marginalized the Convoy crowd, with our court systems and law enforcement now having to follow up with these idiots.

PP is also rubbing shoulders with the extreme members of that convoy crowd. And Canadian see that plain as day.

And stop with this "legacy media" or "woke media" or whatever populists want to spin to make it sounds like you have some sort of "upper edge" on media reporting, because the Rebel/Post Millennial/True North are ultra right-wing rags that have as much credibility as screaming two year-olds with poop coming out of their diapers. Blue Lives Matter, right?

The convoy protest was was the result of frustration caused by a long painful pandemic, it is not normal for Canadians to protest this way. I'm actually surprised it was as peaceful as it was, especially given the way Trudeau handled it (or should we say didn't handle it). Trudeau is always internationally embarrassing, this was especially embarrassing given the way he criticized India for how they dealt with their recent protests.

I disagree that PP was rubbing shoulders with extreme members of that crowd, I never saw any evidence of that.

When I say "legacy media" you know exactly who I'm talking about, it is much simpler then naming all the corrupt biased media outlets accepting money from Trudeau.

[b1crunch]

Originally Posted by StickMan

The convoy protest was was the result of frustration caused by a long painful pandemic, it is not normal for Canadians to protest this way. I'm actually surprised it was as peaceful as it was, especially given the way Trudeau handled it (or should we say didn't handle it). Trudeau is always internationally embarrassing, this was especially embarrassing given the way he criticized India for how they dealt with their recent protests.

I disagree that PP was rubbing shoulders with extreme members of that crowd, I never saw any evidence of that.

When I say "legacy media" you know exactly who I'm talking about, it is much simpler then naming all the corrupt biased media outlets accepting money from Trudeau.

This comment tells me way more about you than it tells me about Trudeau.

You yourself defined PP as a populist. Then you got annoyed with me that I suggested populism had negative connotations due to recent events of Trump. Now you, a PP supporter, suggest Canadian media is corrupt and bought off. Which is similar to Trump's claims of 'Fake News'.

Again, you are not doing PP any favours. You are actively making it worse for him on this forum and in eyes of the Canadian public.. You're literally painting him in the light of a Trumpian-populist. I don't actually think he's anywhere close to being like Trump, but when his own supporters literally define him as a populist and then make claims similar to Trump's 'Fake News', what do you expect people to think?

You just keep digging deeper holes. Might be best to take a more balanced approach.

[StickMan]

Originally Posted by b1crunch

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/conse...eople-1.712106

"A Conservative MP who on Wednesday told an Ottawa radio station that former residential school students need a stronger work ethic, not more compensation dollars, has apologized for his comments."

He apologized for it, but the optics of the comments occurring so close to Harper's apology is extremely disappointing.

I mean, you seem to be one of his most ardent supporters. Did you honestly not know he said these things?

I hadn't heard that before, thanks for sharing. Digging a little deeper the actual words were:
"My view is that we need to engender the values of hard work and independence and self reliance. That's the solution in the long run -- more money will not solve it."

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by StickMan

I hadn't heard that before, thanks for sharing. Digging a little deeper the actual words were:
"My view is that we need to engender the values of hard work and independence and self reliance. That's the solution in the long run -- more money will not solve it."

You’re right, suggesting indigenous people don’t value hard work, independence, and self-reliance and that the government must engender these things in them is much better. That’s why Harper and PP both apologised for it.

He also said recently he wanted to scrap the bills that require their consultation and give them cheques instead, so apparently money is the solution sometimes.

[b1crunch]

Originally Posted by StickMan

I hadn't heard that before, thanks for sharing. Digging a little deeper the actual words were:
"My view is that we need to engender the values of hard work and independence and self reliance. That's the solution in the long run -- more money will not solve it."

Right, so right around the time of Harper's historic apology, he commented that First Nations people LACKED the values of hard work, independence and self-reliance. Hence, he was suggesting they were lazy and lived off of government support.

Not a good look for him and he rightly apologized. But these comments will make him having any moral stance over indigenous issues in Canada difficult.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by StickMan

I hadn't heard that before, thanks for sharing. Digging a little deeper the actual words were:
"My view is that we need to engender the values of hard work and independence and self reliance. That's the solution in the long run -- more money will not solve it."

So basically he’s saying they don’t work hard?

In any event his historical support of the TFW program contradicts what he said.

[StickMan]

Originally Posted by b1crunch

This comment tells me way more about you than it tells me about Trudeau.

You yourself defined PP as a populist. Then you got annoyed with me that I suggested populism had negative connotations due to recent events of Trump. Now you, a PP supporter, suggest Canadian media is corrupt and bought off. Which is similar to Trump's claims of 'Fake News'.

Again, you are not doing PP any favours. You are actively making it worse for him on this forum and in eyes of the Canadian public.. You're literally painting him in the light of a Trumpian-populist. I don't actually think he's anywhere close to being like Trump, but when his own supporters literally define him as a populist and then make claims similar to Trump's 'Fake News', what do you expect people to think?

You just keep digging deeper holes. Might be best to take a more balanced approach.

Whenever media accepts money from the government it is bad optics. I'm sure you are aware that the CBC receives well over 1 billion alone. It is painfully obvious that Canadian "legacy" media is biased, if you don't see it maybe it is because you just like what you hear.

[StickMan]

Originally Posted by b1crunch

Right, so right around the time of Harper's historic apology, he commented that First Nations people LACKED the values of hard work, independence and self-reliance. Hence, he was suggesting they were lazy and lived off of government support.

Not a good look for him and he rightly apologized. But these comments will make him having any moral stance over indigenous issues in Canada difficult.

I guess we will see. Trudeau went surfing on the first truth and reconciliation day, and his sorry was good enough.

[b1crunch]

Originally Posted by StickMan

Whenever media accepts money from the government it is bad optics. I'm sure you are aware that the CBC receives well over 1 billion alone. It is painfully obvious that Canadian "legacy" media is biased, if you don't see it maybe it is because you just like what you hear.

Literally all media is biased. They are products of people and all people are biased. I'm biased, you're biased, everyone is. Your job as the consumer of the media is to recognize the bias and get your information from multiple sources and then balance out the bias to the best of your ability. It's an imperfect system, but it is what it is. If you only listen to sources of information that you like, then what the hell is the point?

Was the CBC a biased propaganda wing of Harper when he was PM?

What if PP doesn't defund the CBC if he become PM? Will the CBC then be a propagandist wing of his government?

All media is biased regardless of if it receives funding from the government. Just because the CBC receives funding does not mean it's biased for Trudeau. The fact that you think that is both hilarious and scary.

I'm sorry but I can't take anyone seriously when they say the things your saying. Claiming Trudeau somehow controls the media in this country is way out there.

I mean, you're going on about media bias, and accuse me of lapping up the 'legacy' media bias, yet you appear to be a massive PP supporter but you had no idea of the terrible comments he made about residential school survivors? Where are you getting your information from? You'd think you'd know everything there is to know about a guy you so strongly support? What are your biases?

You just keep digging deeper down the populist/Trump hole here. Don't get mad when people think PP is a Trumpian-populist, it's literally how you're painting him with the things you're saying.

But go ahead, keep digging. I thought you'd want more people to support PP, hence why I advised a more balanced approach. Like maybe talk about how he'd be great for job creation, or something. But you just keep digging down these rabbit holes and worsening how people will ultimately view him.

I think if PP is going to win the next federal election he needs to do it on a positive vision for Canada's future, not just because Trudeau is a doofus. So, I'd think it would be in his best interest and his supporters best interest if they dropped the "woke", "radical", "fake news", crap and just focus on positive governance proposals. You know, real things that everyday people care about.

[b1crunch]

Originally Posted by StickMan

I guess we will see. Trudeau went surfing on the first truth and reconciliation day, and his sorry was good enough.

Was it though? It was just another event in a long line of gaffs that Trudeau has carried out. You obviously didn't forget it, and I'm sure many in the First Nations community didn't either.