Done with Consumer WiFi solutions...

[psicodude]

I'm honestly not trying to be a jerk here, but if you don't know what backhaul is, I would suggest that this type of networking gear may be difficult for you to set up and manage. As Torquedog has said a few times, this is enterprise-grade equipment. It's not like the stuff you buy at Best Buy and just plug it in. It requires a moderate amount of networking knowledge to get going.

I'm not saying it's impossible. Heck, it might even be a little fun. I just thought it was important for you to know what you're getting into before dropping $700+ on it.

[Diemenz]

^
There is a lot of truth here.

There is several consumer grade systems that perform very very well. Linksys Velop and Netgear Orbi both perform on par (or better depending on the AP chosen) with Ubiquiti lite Ap’s and the interface is very user friendly. That might be a better route to go if your not into tweaking.

[GoinAllTheWay]

Originally Posted by psicodude

I'm honestly not trying to be a jerk here, but if you don't know what backhaul is, I would suggest that this type of networking gear may be difficult for you to set up and manage.

It was new to everyone at some point. I've heard of it now and understand what it's function is. Very much in my wheelhouse.

[NuclearFart]

Am I the only one who read every post this thread, but has no idea what the hell y'all are talking about?

[TorqueDog]

I've done a few things since this thread started.

Our neighbourhood has recently dealt with some nuisances; someone's car was broken into (all the doors and the trunk left open in front of his house!) and someone's bicycle was stolen from their garage. The Mrs. isn't terribly thrilled about this, and while I think it's likely an isolated incident and not something to be too worried about, we've both decided that it would be a good idea to install a Z-wave motion sensing flood light and some IP cameras around the garage.

I originally looked at wireless cameras, but was worried about the wireless reaching the far end of the garage, and really wanted to keep the wiring simple. So, I decided to do PoE cameras. Problem is that we have a detached garage, and there is no way I am going to yank up my backyard just to run a second conduit to run some data cabling through, nor am I going to run cables overhead.

Ubiquiti to the rescue. I installed a single gang in the garage with three outdoor-grade ethernet cables terminating at a three-port plate, and from that, all three are plugged into the PoE ports of a UniFi Switch 8-60w which will do 802.3af PoE. One cable exits to the front of the garage where the camera can get a good look at the apron and our back gate. The next gets a perfect view of someone entering the yard, and the last ethernet cable exits to the side of the garage facing the house, where it plugs into a Ubiquiti UAP-AC-Mesh, mounted to the exterior garage wall. The AC Mesh is good down to -30 degrees Celsius, and uses the master bedroom AP (located closest to the garage) as a wireless backhaul.

The AC Mesh was immediately found by the controller and I was able to adopt it and set up the wireless uplink to prioritize the master bedroom AP, since the AP in my office is the opposite side of the house. Once that was adopted, the Switch 8-60w appeared and was available for adoption into the controller. Updated their firmware individually, and they're good to go. The cameras I'm looking at support 802.3af PoE so I didn't need to invest in the more expensive Switch 8-150w that does 802.3af/at and 48v passive PoE.

As an added bonus, anyone who is outside in the backyard can connect to the guest WiFi over the AC Mesh and still get really fast connectivity. The wireless backhaul on the wireless AP is currently sitting around -56dBm (84%) for signal strength, and 650 Mbps up/down link speed.

Originally Posted by NuclearFart

Am I the only one who read every post this thread, but has no idea what the hell y'all are talking about?

You know when you walk into a building, and there is magically internet all around you?

It's that. It's magic internet.


But really, anything you don't understand, just ask and we'll explain it.

[ken0042]

Not sure if this is a good deal or not, but MemEx's one day sale is an Ubiquiti AP:
https://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/MX67913

[TorqueDog]

The UAP-AC-Lite is a pretty good AP, more than a lot of people will need anyway. Most probably won't see a big difference between 2x2 and 3x3 MIMO, and if you've got more than one AP in your house, it's virtually a non-issue.

The limitation of the UAP-AC-Lite that made it a non-starter for my own deployment was that it only comes with a single ethernet-in and no ethernet-out. I have my access point deployed at the ethernet wall plate and needed a second ethernet port to carry on to my gigabit switch in the office, as my PC, Color Laser MFP, and SmartThings hub are all hardwired there. Only the UAP-AC-Pro offered a second ethernet port (and the UAP-AC-IW too, but the range is reduced on those compared to the AC Pro).

[Dentoman]

Originally Posted by NuclearFart

Am I the only one who read every post this thread, but has no idea what the hell y'all are talking about?

Me too, but I just installed a Velop AC6600 (based on this thread) and it works great!! I have no idea how it actually works, but it was basically plug and play which is right up my alley.

[Diemenz]

Originally Posted by Dentoman

Me too, but I just installed a Velop AC6600 (based on this thread) and it works great!! I have no idea how it actually works, but it was basically plug and play which is right up my alley.

I love the Velop. Seemless and the wireless backhaul is top notch (so is the wired backhaul because it works through switches like it should unlike some competitors) You made a great choice.

[Dentoman]

Originally Posted by Diemenz

I love the Velop. Seemless and the wireless backhaul is top notch (so is the wired backhaul because it works through switches like it should unlike some competitors) You made a great choice.

Thanks. I have no idea what wireless backhaul is so I'll take your word for it.

One feature I really like is the channel finder ... it makes a big difference and is just one tap and done.

I am running my Velop in bridge mode while connected to my Shaw Hitron modem/router. Do you think that would be an issue with the performance/speed of the Velop? Running in bridge mode precludes me from using some features (parental controls, speed test and a couple of others) but this doesn't really cause me any issues. It just made the set up easier and allows me to keep a powerline adapter I use hooked up to the Hitron (although it appears I could hook the adapter up directly to the Velop as well).

[Diemenz]

Originally Posted by Dentoman

Thanks. I have no idea what wireless backhaul is so I'll take your word for it.

One feature I really like is the channel finder ... it makes a big difference and is just one tap and done.

I am running my Velop in bridge mode while connected to my Shaw Hitron modem/router. Do you think that would be an issue with the performance/speed of the Velop? Running in bridge mode precludes me from using some features (parental controls, speed test and a couple of others) but this doesn't really cause me any issues. It just made the set up easier and allows me to keep a powerline adapter I use hooked up to the Hitron (although it appears I could hook the adapter up directly to the Velop as well).

Backhaul is the communication from the main nodes back to the parent node. The parent node really controls everything. Backhaul when wired or dedicated will double your throughput (speed) over a traditional mesh system.

And yes that’s hooked up wrong
Bridge the Shaw crap router and use Velop as the main hub. The way you have it now will work but it will decrease performance and you will lose the features that the Velop excels at you can directly hook the power line adapter to the Velop but I am wondering why you are using a power line adapter when you have a mesh system. If you do want to keep the power line adapter I would suggest connecting it to the Velop one one end and Velop on the other end so your backhaul is wired.

Pm me your setup and layout and I’ll see if I can help

[silentsim]

So....

For a larger house, with router in main floor in office, looking at a mesh system.

Narrowed it down to the following three:
Orbi (for up to 5K sq ft), i believe this is the RBK50 or 53.
Ubiquiti AmplifHD
Or the VELOP 3 unit package - AC 6600



Any suggestions?

[gasman]

Originally Posted by silentsim

So....

For a larger house, with router in main floor in office, looking at a mesh system.

Narrowed it down to the following three:
Orbi (for up to 5K sq ft), i believe this is the RBK50 or 53.
Ubiquiti AmplifHD
Or the VELOP 3 unit package - AC 6600



Any suggestions?

I bought the VELOP 3 unit package, and I am about to send it back to Amazon.
I really saw no improvement over my old setup, which involves 3 airport extremes all hardwired together.

[Diemenz]

Originally Posted by silentsim

So....

For a larger house, with router in main floor in office, looking at a mesh system.

Narrowed it down to the following three:
Orbi (for up to 5K sq ft), i believe this is the RBK50 or 53.
Ubiquiti AmplifHD
Or the VELOP 3 unit package - AC 6600



Any suggestions?

I think all 3 of those are great choices.

My thoughts:
UbiquitiAmplifHD
Pros:
Sexy.....like super sexy, Small footprint, effortless setup, and reliable. Also 3x3 MIMO and 4 ports on the main node.
Cons:
No desktop software and customizing is minimal, Plug in system can be problematic if you have children who like touching stuff. Slower then the others you mentioned in throughput.

Orbi
Pros:
Fastest throughput overall only loses out to Velop in long range speed, multiple ports on node, easy setup and reliable. Has circle which if you need it is a very nice addition. Limited customization. Dedicated wireless backhaul, this is a big plus to speed. Bluetooth 4.1. Does vertical very well.
Cons:
Big as hell, like really big. Wired backhaul is meh, Gets hot, Hub to host connection so not true mesh. 2X MIMO (Backhaul channel 4xMIMO)

Velop
Pros:
Tiny, Easy setup, Wired backhaul works through switches and is intelligent. Wireless backhaul is dedicated. Desktop access and app access with parental controls and priority settings. 3x3 MIMO (Backhaul Channel 4x MIMO). Bluetooth 4.1. Passes through walls extremely well, best at data hops between nodes with about double the speed of the other two.
Cons:
Only one in and one out ethernet connections so switches are needed when hooked up multiple wires devices. Need to follow the directions when you set it up, has to be setup wireless then can be plugged in wired and will update to wired backhaul. About 5% slower then Orbi in throughput short range. (over 400Mbps, not noticeable under 250Mbps). Does not do vertical well, should have a node on each level.

I personally went with the velop as i have one on each floor and pull 330 from anywhere in my house. The data hops was also important as I transfer files between computers a lot and the speed difference from the orbi on this was noticeable. Since I have kids the AmplifyHD was a no go as most plugs in my house have a nightlight plugged in or are behind something so the setup was not as friendly for me (my daughter also took one out to use as a sword). My wife hated the Orbi she said it looked terrible to have blenders throughout the house (size issues).

If you want more info let me know.

[Aleks]

Originally Posted by gasman

I bought the VELOP 3 unit package, and I am about to send it back to Amazon.
I really saw no improvement over my old setup, which involves 3 airport extremes all hardwired together.

Well, yah. That's obvious. AC6600 will really only be apparent when moving files across the network to other devices on the network (thats how they test router throughput for ratings). The pure wireless speed is 300mbps I think with the extreme (vs like, 500mbps I think with the velop per channel?), which is more than your internet speed already, so that's your limiting factor. If you had 1 Airport extreme, you'd see a coverage advantage. You probably actually had a coverage improvement with the Velop, but you likely didn't check your gains with a wifi detector tool.

I don't know how you have your Airports set up though, do they all have individual SSID? Are they in AP mode? Do they wired backhaul? I've never set one up. With typical repeater setups you lose alot of throughput (hence the dedicated wireless backhaul on the mesh systems)

[Diemenz]

Originally Posted by Aleks

Well, yah. That's obvious. AC6600 will really only be apparent when moving files across the network to other devices on the network (thats how they test router throughput for ratings). The pure wireless speed is 300mbps I think with the extreme (vs like, 500mbps I think with the velop per channel?), which is more than your internet speed already, so that's your limiting factor. If you had 1 Airport extreme, you'd see a coverage advantage. You probably actually had a coverage improvement with the Velop, but you likely didn't check your gains with a wifi detector tool.

I don't know how you have your Airports set up though, do they all have individual SSID? Are they in AP mode? Do they wired backhaul? I've never set one up. With typical repeater setups you lose alot of throughput (hence the dedicated wireless backhaul on the mesh systems)

I have a few airport expresses from back in the day (and take one when I travel to use as an AP) and In bridge mode they only extend the wireless signal and do not communicate through Ethernet for backhaul. However there was a “hack” to make it extend over Ethernet. As funny as it sounds those Apple airport extremes and express routers had great software and decent enough hardware to still beat out current routers (assuming you have ac clients and the airports were the newer AC versions). Performance wise however they are not even in the same weight class as the velop so I imagine there might have been an issue with the velop setup, hardware or locations.

[Aleks]

Originally Posted by Diemenz

I have a few airport expresses from back in the day (and take one when I travel to use as an AP) and In bridge mode they only extend the wireless signal and do not communicate through Ethernet for backhaul. However there was a “hack” to make it extend over Ethernet. As funny as it sounds those Apple airport extremes and express routers had great software and decent enough hardware to still beat out current routers (assuming you have ac clients and the airports were the newer AC versions). Performance wise however they are not even in the same weight class as the velop so I imagine there might have been an issue with the velop setup, hardware or locations.

Its funny you mention the travel router, I have an express I use for that purpose. Tuck it in a suitcase with an ethernet cable in a ziplock and its perfect for hotels. They're simple to use.

For simplicity and reliability I think the Orbi's have been better, with better performance, and more LAN ports, at the expense of being AC5300 I think instead of 6600, but like I said unless you're heavy hauling over your LAN you won't notice

[silentsim]

Originally Posted by Diemenz

I think all 3 of those are great choices.

My thoughts:
UbiquitiAmplifHD
Pros:
Sexy.....like super sexy, Small footprint, effortless setup, and reliable. Also 3x3 MIMO and 4 ports on the main node.
Cons:
No desktop software and customizing is minimal, Plug in system can be problematic if you have children who like touching stuff. Slower then the others you mentioned in throughput.

Orbi
Pros:
Fastest throughput overall only loses out to Velop in long range speed, multiple ports on node, easy setup and reliable. Has circle which if you need it is a very nice addition. Limited customization. Dedicated wireless backhaul, this is a big plus to speed. Bluetooth 4.1. Does vertical very well.
Cons:
Big as hell, like really big. Wired backhaul is meh, Gets hot, Hub to host connection so not true mesh. 2X MIMO (Backhaul channel 4xMIMO)

Velop
Pros:
Tiny, Easy setup, Wired backhaul works through switches and is intelligent. Wireless backhaul is dedicated. Desktop access and app access with parental controls and priority settings. 3x3 MIMO (Backhaul Channel 4x MIMO). Bluetooth 4.1. Passes through walls extremely well, best at data hops between nodes with about double the speed of the other two.
Cons:
Only one in and one out ethernet connections so switches are needed when hooked up multiple wires devices. Need to follow the directions when you set it up, has to be setup wireless then can be plugged in wired and will update to wired backhaul. About 5% slower then Orbi in throughput short range. (over 400Mbps, not noticeable under 250Mbps). Does not do vertical well, should have a node on each level.

I personally went with the velop as i have one on each floor and pull 330 from anywhere in my house. The data hops was also important as I transfer files between computers a lot and the speed difference from the orbi on this was noticeable. Since I have kids the AmplifyHD was a no go as most plugs in my house have a nightlight plugged in or are behind something so the setup was not as friendly for me (my daughter also took one out to use as a sword). My wife hated the Orbi she said it looked terrible to have blenders throughout the house (size issues).

If you want more info let me know.

I really appreciate the detailed response. I have ordered the VELOP.

[Diemenz]

Originally Posted by silentsim

I really appreciate the detailed response. I have ordered the VELOP.

No problem enjoy your new network!
Some tips:
Set them up one by one powering them on as the app tells you too. Also do not connect them to Ethernet (except for the main/parent node that’s the first one you set up) until after the mesh network is completed. Once they are all connected you can connect them to Ethernet doesn’t matter if it’s through switches or whatever because the Velop recognizes the link you want and will adjust for backhaul.

About 95% of the issues people have with mesh systems is trying to turn them all on and connect them all the Ethernet right off the bat and that causes a network loop which not only degrades performance but it also will piss you off with nodes “not available” or “not connecting”.

[White Out 403]

The general online consensus is that the orbi is actually a better-performing unit but a little bit more expensive.