Call up Phillips! Now!

[Mr.Coffee]

Haha hey I feel bad for the guy. Hopefully they give him a shot. Put yourself in his shoes. Literally become the best player in the AHL, still have fans preferring to watch Coleman and Lewis over you.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Haha hey I feel bad for the guy. Hopefully they give him a shot. Put yourself in his shoes. Literally become the best player in the AHL, still have fans preferring to watch Coleman and Lewis over you.

You're Coleman hate is interesting.

But bottom line two excellent defensive forwards aren't coming out of the lineup for an AHL experiment.

If you move Ruzicka down to the fourth line and say Rooney and Ritchie out you may have some traction.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Well the chasm between say Ritchie and Lucic isn't so vast that a little bit of intangibles wouldn't be enough to flip the order.

Unless Ritchie also has worthwhile intangibles. And Lewis does. Etc.

I think it’s fine to cite intangibles when justifying keeping guys in the mix if the team is clicking. But they aren’t, so whatever intangibles people are bringing aren’t outweighing the tangible on ice stuff.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Bingo

You're Coleman hate is interesting.

But bottom line two excellent defensive forwards aren't coming out of the lineup for an AHL experiment.

If you move Ruzicka down to the fourth line and say Rooney and Ritchie out you may have some traction.

Yeah I agree with ya on the Ruzicka thing. I really do hate Coleman haha. Do you like him? If so what do you like about him?

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by Bingo

LOL no I'm not ...

What claim did I make in a statement that starts with "if"?

Sure, but the "if not" scenario brings an immediate end to the conversation, because there's nothing to debate in that case.

The "if yes" scenario is the only one you're exploring. Therefore it's essentially the same as making the claim.

Look, no one can say with total certainty whether or not he's having this "boosting" effect on his teammates when he's on the ice. But if he is, it will be showing in his on-ice numbers. Problem is, his on-ice numbers are bad.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Unless Ritchie also has worthwhile intangibles. And Lewis does. Etc.

I think it’s fine to cite intangibles when justifying keeping guys in the mix if the team is clicking. But they aren’t, so whatever intangibles people are bringing aren’t outweighing the tangible on ice stuff.

I think Lewis does for sure.

But Ritchie (in comparison)?

No cup history. Way less intimidation factor. Never discussed as a leader on the team or an important part in the room.

Trust me man, I'm not making a case to move Lucic up the roster ... I'm just saying more than goals and assists come into him holding down a fourth line role.

[Snuffleupagus]

Fact is the Flames are have a serious hard time scoring and have very few skilled offensive players in the lineup. To not give the A's leading scorer a look under these circumstances seems out of touch, more than anything I don't like the message this sends to our skilled prospects, college free agents and possible UFA's going forward.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

Sure, but the "if not" scenario brings an immediate end to the conversation, because there's nothing to debate in that case.

The "if yes" scenario is the only one you're exploring. Therefore it's essentially the same as making the claim.

Look, no one can say with total certainty whether or not he's having this "boosting" effect on his teammates when he's on the ice. But if he is, it will be showing in his on-ice numbers. Problem is, his on-ice numbers are bad.

It's not a claim. It's a suggestion. Let it go.

And no I don't think a player's intangibles have to necessarily show in their own on ice numbers. If you help other players play better it's in their numbers, not your own.

[Mr.Coffee]

Out of all the line 4 guys Lucic can have the biggest impact on a game, but only if he is doing his aggressive forecheck and really skating / playing hard and mean. If he’s lukewarm, like he has been the last month or so, he is awful. But when he is going, his “intangibles” are actually very useful.

Far more than say… a guy like Coleman.

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by Bingo

And no I don't think a player's intangibles have to necessarily show in their own on ice numbers. If you help other players play better it's in their numbers, not your own.

On ice numbers literally say what the team does when you're on the ice...

[Burning Beard]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Put yourself in his shoes.

I have size 12 feet I really doubt they would fit.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I think Lewis does for sure.

But Ritchie (in comparison)?

No cup history. Way less intimidation factor. Never discussed as a leader on the team or an important part in the room.

Trust me man, I'm not making a case to move Lucic up the roster ... I'm just saying more than goals and assists come into him holding down a fourth line role.

Maybe. We’re not in the room or on the ice with any of these guys so who really knows.

Holding down a regular 4th line spot might be more than goals and assists. In fact, I know it is. I thought Jarnkrok was great in his time here despite producing nothing. But his defensive game was fantastic. What’s Lucic doing on the ice?

Intangibles are great. But NHLers have to bring something tangible to the table, too. And it’s hard to see with him lately.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

On ice numbers literally say what the team does when you're on the ice...

Huh?

I'm saying that if intangibles exist, and players throughout the lineup play differently when he's in the lineup then his own personal on ice numbers don't need to improve.

Said the exact thing above.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Maybe. We’re not in the room or on the ice with any of these guys so who really knows.

Holding down a regular 4th line spot might be more than goals and assists. In fact, I know it is. I thought Jarnkrok was great in his time here despite producing nothing. But his defensive game was fantastic. What’s Lucic doing on the ice?

Intangibles are great. But NHLers have to bring something tangible to the table, too. And it’s hard to see with him lately.

But he can't be waived nor sent down and his massive hurdle to stay in the lineup is Kevin Rooney and Brett Ritchie.

That's it.

This isn't mount rushmore here

[Mathgod]

Players throughout the lineup might play better if he's in the lineup, whether he's on the ice or not, because of who he is.

You know what, maybe. But I just don't see it. Sorry.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

Players throughout the lineup might play better if he's in the lineup, whether he's on the ice or not, because of who he is.

You know what, maybe. But I just don't see it. Sorry.

No need to apologize

Wasn't assuming you and I would come to one mind on this at any point.

[Mr.Coffee]

Well anyway I’m glad in the end that we all agree, in conclusion, they should call up Phillips.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Bingo

But he can't be waived nor sent down and his massive hurdle to stay in the lineup is Kevin Rooney and Brett Ritchie.

That's it.

This isn't mount rushmore here

Which just cycles us back to the fact that having both Rooney and Lucic in the lineup given how little they’re adding in terms of “tangibles” is difficult to justify when guys on the farm are making a case for a spot.

Rooney shouldn’t be on the team. Lucic should be subbing for injuries. That’s it.

[tony-soprano]

Originally Posted by Bingo

If Lucic makes his teammates play taller because of his size and intimidation, get more ready because of his room presence, or inspire them because of who the guy is he can very much help the Flames out score the opposition without hitting the goal sheet itself.

That's just a very limited view on things.

Imagine replacing Lucic with Phillips. Zadorov is big, can’t fight..so that would make Ritchie our de facto enforcer. Phillips, Mangs and Dube would get bullied real fast.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by tony-soprano

Imagine replacing Lucic with Phillips. Zadorov is big, can’t fight..so that would make Ritchie our de facto enforcer. Phillips, Mangs and Dube would get bullied real fast.

It's not how the league works it's a skill league trying to win games not start fights this isn't the UFC.

Sutter loves the great guys in the room anyone remember Darren McCarty great leadership lol.