Did a Chinese hack kill Canada's greatest tech company?

[Flamenspiel]

nm

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by karl262

I dont doubt that over the last 25 years things have gotten better, I'm more concerned about the next 25.

I'm sure the author of this book would think the US economy is in great shape because stocks and home sales are at an all time high, right? Nothing to see here...the tens of millions of newly unemployed people will bounce right back!

Sent from my SM-G973W using Tapatalk

Nope not at all . Honestly if you buy and it doesn’t change your perspective I will literally pay you back !

And the US makes up a small population of the world. And the middle class in America a even tiny proportion of world population

Is your argument that the blue collar American middle class has gotten worst compared to everyone else in the world ? WelL they were in a pretty good place to start with

[Azure]

India is going to be the emerging world economy.

No drama, hard workers.

We should be doing everything in our power to develop trade deals and helping them.

On the farming, resource production side, Canada should be world leaders in helping India develop.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

I’m curious which part you think isn’t accurate?

The concentration camps or global economic espionage that has cost companies billions or the bots?

The camps are real. The cultural genocide is real. Is it genocide as in actually exterminating people as in the holocaust? Without some very strong evidence, he's going over the top there.

Cultural genocide is awful. No disagreement there, but it's also not the entirety of what China is. They're similarly awful to the residential school system that operated in Canada up into the '90s. Horrific, but not representative of all the country is or will be. Maybe from his point of view it would have been fair to have characterized all of Canada as a disaster of a country on the basis of residential schools or eugenics programs from the past and to have called for the whole world to align in crushing Canada as recompense, but I doubt it. I wouldn't hold that view either, but it is how he approaches China.

It's also not just this one post. Azure has a history of posting around China that is full of wild fears and unbalanced statements, a place that he's never been to, would refuse to ever go to, wants nothing to do with, and has no basis of claiming good knowledge or understanding about. Honestly, he comes across as having been radicalized around anti-Chinese sentiment.

He also then goes on to say things like:

You're not going to get a response.

As though he's dismissing me as the equivalent of one of the Chinese bots he fears, despite the fact that I have repeatedly and extensively engaged on issues around China on these boards.

I will admit, I didn't respond right away and I feel much less like responding in these threads than I used to, because I have come to find these threads just emotionally exhausting sometimes when dealing with the odd posters who basically have no sophisticated knowledge about China but are full of fear, anger or hatred, such as Azure.

His claims so often reflect ignorance but are used to portray China as a sort of evil enemy. Like what he says about intellectual property rights, which reflects total ignorance about how China's IP laws are developing and actually becoming really strong is some sectors. These aren't knowledgeable statements of someone with good understanding as much as they're talking points that have taken root with someone who lacks knowledge and that are fully shaping the narrative in his head because there's nothing else in there to contradict it.

It's a dangerous narrative. The type of narrative that shapes ideas like

we should effectively start to dismantle anything that has Chinese ownership

The only thing a Chinese national is allowed to buy is a house, and then they needed to be vetted, and should be paying property taxes 10x those of someone not from China

Which seem like they're coming awfully close to going back to the days of Japanese internment and Chinese head taxes.

Honestly, this is some awful stuff. It's dangerous and hateful.

And yet when it comes to India, he says:

No drama, hard workers.

We should be doing everything in our power to develop trade deals and helping them

Seeming to have no knowledge of the Hindu nationalist movement that's persecuting huge numbers of Indian Muslims under the Modi government. Or as if India has no corruption issues, no child labor issues, no IP theft issues etc.

Now, I have nothing against India. I actually love India and hope to be back there for both personal and professional reasons as soon as we get past COVID, but Azure's comments on India are just another reflection of ignorance combined with bias at least verging very closely on bigotry.

I have said time and again here on CP that China has some big issues and is doing some things I strongly disagree with, but I find myself in the position of defending China when I read posts like Azure's.

A lot of Canadians quite understandably lack much knowledge about China. The narratives shaping thoughts like the one's expressed in Azure's posts aren't going to enlighten people though, they just prey upon that lack of information to foment some pretty nasty ideas. .

[afc wimbledon]

China's ####, India's ####, the US was ####, built is power on killing natives and slavery, the British Empire was ####, built its power on selling slaves to the US and killing all kinds of mostly brown people, all empires are built on the blood and bodies of the poor and brown.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

China's ####, India's ####, the US was ####, built is power on killing natives and slavery, the British Empire was ####, built its power on selling slaves to the US and killing all kinds of mostly brown people, all empires are built on the blood and bodies of the poor and brown.

White people don’t have a monopoly on Empire building.

Empires are built on the blood and bodies of the poor. Whether or not your particular ethnicity is on top depends on when you’re building your empire.

Unless we’d like to argue there was white privilege in the court of Xerxes? The Ottomans? Genghis Khan?

Humans beings are conquerors. We only have our entire history to back that up. When conquest stops happening, it’s because we’re all gone.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

White people don’t have a monopoly on Empire building.

Empires are built on the blood and bodies of the poor. Whether or not your particular ethnicity is on top depends on when you’re building your empire.

Unless we’d like to argue there was white privilege in the court of Xerxes? The Ottomans? Genghis Khan?

Humans beings are conquerors. We only have our entire history to back that up. When conquest stops happening, it’s because we’re all gone.

that was kind of my point, to me all this China is terrible schtick is just because they aint white, we were all fine with the US being utter ######bags to all and sundry in Latin America or the like

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

that was kind of my point, to me all this China is terrible schtick is just because they aint white, we were all fine with the US being utter ######bags to all and sundry in Latin America or the like

There’s different shades of awful.

I’ll take the US brand of awful 366 days a year, and my reasons have absolutely nothing to do with the skin colour of the majority population, and everything to do with the accomplishments of America/western civilization over the last 150 years.

Achievements that China is more than willing to steal and profit from, to keep on the topic of thread.

[CaptainCrunch]

Looks like kidnapping foreign citizen's is big time in China's playbook


Australia calls for a China Pandemic inquiry


https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/china-...irus-1.5548868


China snatches a Australian

https://twitter.com/user/status/1300850082791653376

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

that was kind of my point, to me all this China is terrible schtick is just because they aint white, we were all fine with the US being utter ######bags to all and sundry in Latin America or the like

If current actions are judged against historical standards, then we're in for a looong century. "But the US/UK did it 100+ years ago" is certainly an argument... I'm not sure where social/cultural/economic/political evolution since then fits in. It feels like a different world today than in the 'empire building' days. Is China hoping to have not missed the empire boat? They may have.

I think it will be extremely interesting to see IF China decides to create their empire, and when it happens. It kind of seems like their about done laying groundwork. Hong Kong is firmly in the empire, Taiwan is next... will the West stand for it? Is China playing this game too early in their rise?

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Looks like kidnapping foreign citizen's is big time in China's playbook


Australia calls for a China Pandemic inquiry


https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/china-...irus-1.5548868


China snatches a Australian

https://twitter.com/user/status/1300850082791653376

Man I hope foreign workers in China are getting danger pay.

[Flamenspiel]

Yes , the biggest issue with the RPC right now is the stonewalling of the pandemic inquiry. The only question is was the release of COVID-19 by the RPC a deliberate bio attack or was it just negligence?

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by Flamenspiel

Yes , the biggest issue with the RPC right now is the stonewalling of the pandemic inquiry. The only question is was the release of COVID-19 by the RPC a deliberate bio attack or was it just negligence?

Pretty risky... how do they guarantee it doesn't get out of control? Why 'start' it in Wuhan, rather than... anywhere else? Like not in China? Or are you suggesting China is the one who was bio-attacked?

[Agamemnon]

"None of those panned out, which may not have mattered much to the Chinese company, because as Nortel was collapsing, Huawei quietly hired about 20 Nortel scientists who’d been developing the groundwork for 5G wireless technology."

Dang, Canada could have been leading 5G. That would have been a nice shot in Canada's economic arm.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

that was kind of my point, to me all this China is terrible schtick is just because they aint white, we were all fine with the US being utter ######bags to all and sundry in Latin America or the like

You are pretty stupid if you think there is fair comparison to be made between the US and China.

We all know the US ain't perfect, but it isn't China.

Grow up.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Azure

You are pretty stupid if you think there is fair comparison to be made between the US and China.

We all know the US ain't perfect, but it isn't China.

Grow up.

Vietnam, Pinochet in Chile, Peron in Argentina in the 60', Central America, Honduras Gautemala and El Salvador in the 70's and 80's and then Iraq and Afghanistan in the 2000's

millions dead, millions s a result of US anti communist policy and now anti radical muslim in our lifetime, frankly China has a long way to go to come close to the US's non citizen death toll.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

If current actions are judged against historical standards, then we're in for a looong century. "But the US/UK did it 10 or 20 years ago " is certainly an argument... I'm not sure where social/cultural/economic/political evolution since then fits in. It feels like a different world today than in the 'empire building' days. Is China hoping to have not missed the empire boat? They may have.

I think it will be extremely interesting to see IF China decides to create their empire, and when it happens. It kind of seems like their about done laying groundwork. Hong Kong is firmly in the empire, Taiwan is next... will the West stand for it? Is China playing this game too early in their rise?

Iraq says hi, fixed your post

[flamesfever]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

that was kind of my point, to me all this China is terrible schtick is just because they aint white, we were all fine with the US being utter ######bags to all and sundry in Latin America or the like

In my experience, the pilfering of IP by the Chinese has been going on for at least the past 30+ years. In 1986, while doing some geology in Indonesia, I witnessed it.

While the average income, at the time for the working poor in Indonesia, was about $1.00 US, a couple of young chinese lads set up a small computer business and were selling copied software manuals for $5.00. each.

Just prior to leaving Calgary, I had purchased a specially made computer for about $9.000. dollars. The various items of software went for around +/- $600. with the manuals alone costing about $300. each.

In looking back, I am not surprised by the present looming security threat by China.

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

Iraq says hi, fixed your post

Gulf War II is an example of historic empire building? Wow that's a broad definition... I reject your 'fix'.

Also its pretty tough to 'compare' the reduction of Hong Kong, the eventual recapture of Taiwan to Gulf War II. Just different everything.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

Gulf War II is an example of historic empire building? Wow that's a broad definition... I reject your 'fix'.

Also its pretty tough to 'compare' the reduction of Hong Kong, the eventual recapture of Taiwan to Gulf War II. Just different everything.

the concept of empire changed after the second world war, both the US and USSR engaged in client state empires and Gulf war 2 was definatly an attempt to put a US friendly oil producing client state in the middle east.

I do agree it is tough to compare China's desire to reclaim territory that was for a thousand years part of China and was taken in part by force, as unpleasant as that is for us and the US bombing some country on the other side of the world it had no business messing with into an anarchic state at the cost of a half million dead, destablysing the whole region, and on some level helping to create the anarchy in Syria and the rise of ISIS.