[Signing] Flames sign Huberdeau to long term extension (8 yrs, $10.5 mil AAV)

[the-rasta-masta]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Yup the Gaudreau offer of $10.5M x 8 seemed to be pretty common knowledge and Huberdeau / Allen would have had that info.

This was my initial reaction:



So yeah I don't think it was getting done for less than what was offered to Gaudreau...especially considering it hypothetically should have been harder to get Huberdeau to forego free agency than it would have been to get Gaudreau to forego it.

Huberdeau was also over a point per game for the previous 3 seasons prior to his 115 point outburst. It was hard to argue at that time that Huberdeau shouldn't be paid more than Gaudreau.

I hope that Huberdeau can bounce back to at least a point per game. What he needs to do differently to get there, I'm not sure. I feel like theres some explosiveness and drive missing from his game, sure effort looks like it's there but I feel he's afraid to take a risk. I remember in his first preseason he made that amazing spinerama around a defender at our own blueline and than a nice pass for a goal. I want them to take the leash off him, run the powerplay through him, and play him with Sharangovich and Kuzmenko right off the start and see what can happen.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

He was a Johnny replacement and Gaudreau had come off a very good season. That said, my suspicion that year was that Gaudreau and Tkachuk were ignoring what Sutter said to do. And relying on Lindholm defensively.

It seemed to me like Sutter had given Gaudreau/Tkachuk somewhat free reign to play their game. After the playoff collapse, Sutter took a 180 and double downed on his defensive play first system.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by blankall

It seemed to me like Sutter had given Gaudreau/Tkachuk somewhat free reign to play their game. After the playoff collapse, Sutter took a 180 and double downed on his defensive play first system.

One or the other. They definitely were not playing the same style as everyone else.

Sutter would have murdered Kuznetsov.

[Groot]

Originally Posted by blankall

It's fairly obvious that Florida has a different system than the Flames, which allowed Huberdeau to be so effective offensively there. They aren't forcing players into two way or complete rolls the way the Flames historically have.

You can see this in the way Huberdeau has failed in Calgary, and former Flames have excelled in Florida. They're giving Tkachuk over 70% offensive zone starts in Florida. Whatever Florida is doing is obviously working for them, as they won the cup.

The question is why did the Flames bring in a guy like Huberdeau, who was playing in such a vastly different system into the Flames system, with Sutter forcing everyone to play a two way game. Seems like a total scouting/management failure. Did they not discuss this with Sutter ahead of time?

Respectfully, I don't think Huberdeau's lack of success here has to do with offensive zone starts or a two-way game, Sutter changed his system after Johnny and Tkachuk left to a plodding, slow, north-south style.

Tkachuk and Johnny led the Flames to being the 4th highest team in the league (tied with Colorado) for transition chances, zone entries & rush goals. 1st in the league was *surprise* Florida led by Huberdeau.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article...-rush-chances/

The Flames last year under Sutter and first year under Huska play a slow, north-south transition/rush system where Huberdeau stands stationary on the left wall at the opposing blue line, collects a pass, slowly steps across the blue line while his linemates drive in a straight line towards the goal, looks for a pass with limited options, then turns the puck over or chips it in for a dump and chase. Rinse and repeat.

The Flames need a transition system like Florida that emphasizes creativity, moves players east to west to create space, and allows Huberdeau to play to his strengths.

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by blankall

The question is why did the Flames bring in a guy like Huberdeau, who was playing in such a vastly different system into the Flames system, with Sutter forcing everyone to play a two way game. Seems like a total scouting/management failure. Did they not discuss this with Sutter ahead of time?

Nothing at all wrong with bringing him in. We would have had teams tripping over themselves to get to the phone first at 1x$2.95M with retention for 29-year-old Huberdeau.

The problem is the topic of the thread: this contract.

[butterfly]

As far as I can tell, here's the list of players who were on an 8-year deal last year that was offered when the player was older than Huberdeau:

Carey Price (age 30)
Marc-Edouard Vlasic (30)
TJ Oshie (30)
Brent Burns (30)

Quite the precedent.

[Circa89]

Originally Posted by the-rasta-masta

I hope that Huberdeau can bounce back to at least a point per game.

he almost has. In 2024 he has scored 38 points in 45 games. He was a changed man ever since the NYE game.

[MrMike]

Originally Posted by Groot

The Flames need a transition system like Florida that emphasizes creativity, moves players east to west to create space, and allows Huberdeau to play to his strengths.

The man needs an elite D and I think that Conroy and Co has pinned that down.

If I could see it watching old highlights to see how Huberdeau was most successful, he loved to peel back and hit the rushing offensive D man, it wouldn’t surprise me especially who we’ve recently targeted in trades/drafts in Brzustewicz/Parekh/Mews.

Damn did Kylington miss out on an opportunity.

[Saqe]

Originally Posted by Groot

The Flames need a transition system like Florida that emphasizes creativity, moves players east to west to create space, and allows Huberdeau to play to his strengths.

Be careful what you wish for though. Rush chances go down in the playoffs and it's very hard to win that way, that's the whole reason Florida brought in Maurice who completely changed their style to being a heavy forecheck, grinding style of game. I think I heard him say they had the least amount of rush chances this year.

[the-rasta-masta]

Originally Posted by Circa89

he almost has. In 2024 he has scored 38 points in 45 games. He was a changed man ever since the NYE game.

Meh, 69 point pace.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Circa89

he almost has. In 2024 he has scored 38 points in 45 games. He was a changed man ever since the NYE game.

Originally Posted by the-rasta-masta

Meh, 69 point pace.

He was around PPG until the garbage time of the season. He does have slumps - last year it was his zero point December that messed him up. He needs to eliminate the slumps. That’s the confidence part, which is aided by putting him with players that work with him - Kuzmenko, Sharangovich etc.

[Calgary4LIfe]

You can explain his lack of production as just his 'slumps'. However, it immediately opens the door to the 'heater' argument. Maybe his PPG runs throughout his time in Calgary have been nothing more than unsustainable heaters.


I thought he had figured things out and that he would be a PPG+ player last season. How he had finished the year off, how the coaching staff were focusing on getting his production back up, how he had a chip on his shoulder, how he has finally 'settled' in Calgary, etc.. Lots and lots of very good reasons to believe that he would have turned things around. Instead, he ended up having a slightly worse season. has an even slightly worse season.


Can I find more reasons to think that he can rebound? Yep, I can, and I don't have to dig deep. Kuzmenko here a full season that should help the PP Maybe he finds chemistry with Mantha. Now that Calgary has entered a rebuild, the pressure may be off. I bet I can think of solid reasons to believe every off-season for the next couple of off-seasons that Huberdeau is going to return to form.


I think that until he does, it is simply better to think of him based on what he has been so far in Calgary - a complimentary 2nd line player who puts up 50+ points. If he ends up exceeding that, I will be happy. If he hits that (or lower), well, this is what I expected anyway. I don't think anyone should be trying to raise their expectations this season. At least head into the season with tempered expectations, and just see what actually happens. Lots of players that don't put up many points go on heaters. It is what it is. Great players find ways to put up points more regularly. This is the danger of trying to extrapolate from small sample sizes - he is not the completely useless player that puts up zero points in an entire month's worth of games, but he is also no longer a PPG player either. In Calgary, he has been a 50-something point player. I entered last season with my expectations fairly high. This season I will temper them.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

You can explain his lack of production as just his 'slumps'. However, it immediately opens the door to the 'heater' argument. Maybe his PPG runs throughout his time in Calgary have been nothing more than unsustainable heaters.


I thought he had figured things out and that he would be a PPG+ player last season. How he had finished the year off, how the coaching staff were focusing on getting his production back up, how he had a chip on his shoulder, how he has finally 'settled' in Calgary, etc.. Lots and lots of very good reasons to believe that he would have turned things around. Instead, he ended up having a slightly worse season. has an even slightly worse season.


Can I find more reasons to think that he can rebound? Yep, I can, and I don't have to dig deep. Kuzmenko here a full season that should help the PP Maybe he finds chemistry with Mantha. Now that Calgary has entered a rebuild, the pressure may be off. I bet I can think of solid reasons to believe every off-season for the next couple of off-seasons that Huberdeau is going to return to form.


I think that until he does, it is simply better to think of him based on what he has been so far in Calgary - a complimentary 2nd line player who puts up 50+ points. If he ends up exceeding that, I will be happy. If he hits that (or lower), well, this is what I expected anyway. I don't think anyone should be trying to raise their expectations this season. At least head into the season with tempered expectations, and just see what actually happens. Lots of players that don't put up many points go on heaters. It is what it is. Great players find ways to put up points more regularly. This is the danger of trying to extrapolate from small sample sizes - he is not the completely useless player that puts up zero points in an entire month's worth of games, but he is also no longer a PPG player either. In Calgary, he has been a 50-something point player. I entered last season with my expectations fairly high. This season I will temper them.

I don't really think he went on heaters though. He had two significant dry spells - the almost impossible December, and the end of the season when the entire team say down. The rest of the year he kind of chugged along, with some very nice games with Kuzmenko thrown in from time to time. I actually liked his play a lot more last year despite the lack of overall point difference.

[Cobra]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I don't really think he went on heaters though. He had two significant dry spells - the almost impossible December, and the end of the season when the entire team say down. The rest of the year he kind of chugged along, with some very nice games with Kuzmenko thrown in from time to time. I actually liked his play a lot more last year despite the lack of overall point difference.

With 12 goals and 52 points and a -29 you thought he was better.....wow.
I get you run his fan club page, bought his Jersey and told everyone what a great Flame he will be.
Why the need to defend him every single day?
His play speaks for itself so far after 2 years he has been a huge dissappointment.
It is OK to be wrong and admit it.

[Classic_Sniper]

Nice thread bump. Thought I'd look back at what I had to say back in 2022 and am quite surprised at how well my analysis ultimately played out. This will without a doubt come off as a flex and a shameless pat on the back (sorry in advance), but 2 years later and it's pretty spot on I'd say.

Looks like I was pretty skittish about Huberdeau, even anticipated a significant point drop. Turns out I was also quite bullish on Weegar and was perfectly fine with his extension. My call on Carter Verhaeghe was bang on though, figured that guy had a chance to pop and boy did he ever. 40 goal season, Stanley Cup Champion and a pivotal member of his team's postseason success for consecutive years.

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Finally got around to watching a bit of Huberdeau and Weeger since I don’t know much about either of these guys. Not gonna lie, it was pretty eye opening based on what I had initially inferred.


Huberdeau

A few things I liked from Huberdeau were the soft hands, a lot of slick moves, very poised, excellent vision, great anticipation and awareness. But with that said, he’s a completely different player from Johnny Gaudreau. He’s a lot more cerebral than what I expected. Definitely not as puck dominant like Johnny and he’s not the fastest or the quickest guy on the ice either. He appears to be more of a “half court” style player who could do some real damage on the PP. I suspect he’ll need a speedster on his line like he had with Anthony Duclair to maximize his effectiveness. He’ll likely need to up his intensity level as well in Darryl’s checking system. He could also stand to be more engaged in the defensive end. Didn’t notice much of a transition game from him which was very surprising.


Weeger

Weeger was a very pleasant surprise. Very confident, very dynamic skater,. Thought he had great lateral footwork, very poised with the puck on his stick, can lead the rush and can jump into the play. On the other side of the ice, I’d say he’s very competent defensively, has solid stick checks, gap control and awareness. Only saw a couple instances where he didn’t stay above his man. Was surprised at how physical he was and he was even willing to absorb contact to make a play. Very unique seeing a right shot defenseman play on the left side too.


After some limited exposure, I will admit, I am very impressed with Weeger, but conversely, wasn’t quite as thrilled with Huberdeau based purely on expectations going in. Have to say, I was blown away by Verhaege (sp?) though. That’s a heck of a player they have, he was everywhere, relentless, high energy, slick plays, generates a lot of opportunities and is very much a Darryl Sutter type of player. I wonder if his name was ever on the offer table.

Overall though, I’d say I’d be perfectly fine extending Weeger right now as I’d be more confident he could pop this coming season given the extra opportunities., But if it was me, I’d wait to extend Huberdeau and see how he plays in a Flames uniform first as I wouldn’t want to over pay him just in case his production drops significantly, which I wouldn’t be surprised to see.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by blankall

It seemed to me like Sutter had given Gaudreau/Tkachuk somewhat free reign to play their game. After the playoff collapse, Sutter took a 180 and double downed on his defensive play first system.

Sutter didn't change his system at all. He's always demanded effort and details in your own end, that never changed even with Gaudreau & Tkachuk. I think people forgot how quickly that top line defended in their own zone, Lindholm was a beast down low and was always diligent in his one on one responsibilities. Tkachuk was great at utilizing his off-side to make plays along the boards to Gaudreau or to relay back to Lindholm for the breakout. Johnny was just incredible at taking the defender with him and accepting breakout passes and quickly transitioning/gaining the opposition blue line. You can't coach this kind of chemistry, it's something that your line either has or doesn't have.

The other non-negotiables I noticed from Darryl was checking and pace of play. The effort has to be there on the checking side and you had to be able to keep up the pace of play both mentally and physically. That never changed and ultimately, some guys proved they could and some proved they couldn't.

[FlamesAddiction]

Pretty bang on analysis.

Huberdeau plays one way and hasn't shown to be adaptable. It's super high maintenance when you need to make acquisitions and construct lines and defense pairings that cater to one player specifically. Finding the right formula is difficult and may not happen at all. How many assets to you spend trying to get one guy going? Especially not worth it for a player now on the wrong side of 30.

He was supposed to be the guy that makes other around him better, not the other way around. You also can't match him up against other team's top defensive players, so the 1st line is not a great place for him.

[Paulie Walnuts]

The numbers don’t lie. Darryl absolutely demanded north south hockey.

He allowed or didn’t allow l, but Johnny and Tkachuk played east west. They blew the zone a lot. Huberdeau didn’t. It’s easier to not listen to a coach when you have been on the team forever and have had 3 other coaches fired. A new player is more likely to try and fit and that’s what Huberdeau did. He committed in the defensive zone and the man on man system and north south style took away from his game.

Darryl absolutely changed. That’s why he’s at home collecting free money.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Pretty bang on analysis.

Huberdeau plays one way and hasn't shown to be adaptable. It's super high maintenance when you need to make acquisitions and construct lines and defense pairings that cater to one player specifically. Finding the right formula is difficult and may not happen at all. How many assets to you spend trying to get one guy going? Especially not worth it for a player now on the wrong side of 30.

He was supposed to be the guy that makes other around him better, not the other way around. You also can't match him up against other team's top defensive players, so the 1st line is not a great place for him.

What is a high maintenance player? He seemed to gel well with whatever Florida put him with?

Do you mean he needs his dog walked during games? His nails clipped during the intermission?

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

The numbers don’t lie. Darryl absolutely demanded north south hockey.

He allowed or didn’t allow l, but Johnny and Tkachuk played east west. They blew the zone a lot. Huberdeau didn’t. It’s easier to not listen to a coach when you have been on the team forever and have had 3 other coaches fired. A new player is more likely to try and fit and that’s what Huberdeau did. He committed in the defensive zone and the man on man system and north south style took away from his game.

Darryl absolutely changed. That’s why he’s at home collecting free money.

Gaudreau coming off of two under PPG seasons under Sutter said screw you Darryl, I'm about to be a UFA and I'm not and have never been a north-south player, Chucky followed him and all they did was put up 219 pts and a +121. which was probably best winger totals on one line in 30-40 years.

Rumor has it after their line had 9pts one night Darryl told Chucky and Gaudreau they were lucky they had Lindholm back checking because they blew if defensively the whole game.

Darryl would likely still be working if he allowed star players to play to their strengths instead of 3rd-4th line style hockey.